7D2, 5D3 and Megapixel Insights

[nightbreath]

Even with lower stats, 1DX buyers spending a whopping ~$7000 will be pissed off if the sensor, the central feature, the brain is the same with a cheaper cousin that is already announced. From a marketing point of view, this is no way for them to sell enough 1DX and they won't do it!

Agree. There's no way Canon is going down in MPx count for 5D and using the same sensor as 1D X. This would cause loosing high MPx buyers if it is not 21+ or loosing 1D X buyers if it is 18 MPx. However they can bring out a 1D IV similar sensor (some changes might be applied) and give people ~27 MPx on a full-frame.

 

[Jettatore]

With the economy the way it is, shortening a product's life cycle is the exact opposite thing any developer should be thinking about. My bet is that 7D II doesn't see an actual shelf till the very end of 2012 or early 2013. 5D Mark III is due for release some-time in 2012. A side by side announcement or release of these two cameras (while it may very well happen) just doesn't make any sense. The 5D Mark II and original 7D were released about a year apart from each other and it would make more sense that they will continue with that trend, it worked, really well for them.

At any rate, I'm planning to upgrade to 5D Mark III (or equivalent if they end up releasing two 5D sized upgraded bodies with different names) in 2012, and 7D Mark II in 2013 or later especially I can snag it at a reduced price/find a good deal on a used copy, I'm pretty happy with the 7D as it is.

 

[whatta]

With the economy the way it is, shortening a product's life cycle is the exact opposite thing any developer should be thinking about.

true, but if they reuse sensor, af, digic like they do so, development is less camera by camera but more generations by generations.

 

[motorhead]

I don't see the 18 MP 1Dx having a long life span. Canon had to produce something for the Olympics next year and this they have done. However good the camera proves to be in other areas for the photojournalists and sports togs, 18 MP is not enough in the long term to replace the higher quality 1Ds mk3.

 

[KeithR]

I understand that the larger the MP count the more it suffers from ISO noise.

Then you don't understand, I'm afraid. It simply doesn't work like that.

 

[KeithR]

Why does the A77 sensor need improving? It is better than any Canon APS-C sensor.

Oh, please! the A77's sensor is a piece of crap, and if my 7D wasn't eminently able to stomp all over it - and it is - I'd throw my camera in the river.

You clearly haven't done any side-by-side testing of A77 files against the Canon sensor, or you couldn't possibly believe what you wrote.

 

[KeithR]

Or are we all stupid enough to buy anything that Canon trots out just because it has the name Canon on it?

Based on the available evidence you might be, but I buy Canon gear because it's the best all-round solution by far for my photographic needs...

 

[match14]

Why does the A77 sensor need improving? It is better than any Canon APS-C sensor.

Oh, please! the A77's sensor is a piece of crap, and if my 7D wasn't eminently able to stomp all over it - and it is - I'd throw my camera in the river.

You clearly haven't done any side-by-side testing of A77 files against the Canon sensor, or you couldn't possibly believe what you wrote.

+1

 

[existent]

If D800 rumors are true and it will be 36mp, I can't see canon releasing a second 18mpx body as the only option. But I can see it being two different cameras as it has been suggested many times before.

If they announce a 18mpx 5DmkIII, and D800 is announced as 36mpx, canon will lose lot of sales. (not necessariliy jumping ship, but people simply won't buy it).

Only way a 18mpx ff camera will be announced first is with a new name. I can see a new body, say 6D, being announced as a ff 18mpx, high iso, great af FF camera priced at or under $2000. This way, people can still think that a 5D with a higher mpx may be coming as well.

Otherwise, I think next ff camera from canon will be a high mpx camera, call it 5dmkIII or 3D, and it will be priced $3000 minimum.

There is easily enough gap between 7D and 1DX to fit 2 ff cameras. Having a $2k ff camera will be great for marketing, attracting newcomers and stealing customers from likes of sony.

And lets be honest, 18mpx FF camera will be more than enough for your average prosumer... even for landscapes. If you are really dedicated and want the highest mpx you can get, then you wouldn't mind investing a bit more and going for a higher mpx alternative at around $3k...

So to summarise, I think there are enough room for 2 FF cameras - one cheaper more general purpose, and one more specialised and more expensive.

And just to remind again, I am basing all this to the fact that D800 will be high megapixel.

 

[whatta]

So to summarise, I think there are enough room for 2 FF cameras - one cheaper more general purpose, and one more specialised and more expensive.

I agree, a relaively cheap FF (called 6d?) would definitelly have market.. I was considering, but I've invested too much in efs. Anyway next year a new body for me, hoping for a good 650d, I will not wait one more year (like for the 70d).

 

[Maui5150]

I am not sure the demand will be as big.

You a lot of people are in the bigger is better category, but say 36 MP versus 21MP is 1.7x greater. That means your 32GB card you are used to shooting is now a 19GB card for all intent and purposes.

Will the Nikon allow us to have multiple levels of Raw? i.e. an 18MP Raw and a 36MP Raw.

I can see a lot of people who will need that high of resolution, but I think for many that size might start to get too cumbersome.

 

[seacritter]

You understand that this camera will never be released until I buy the current 5D MarkII

Soooo... If you ever want to see this camera, you can all pitch in and pick me up the current 5D Mark II... I guarantee that it will come out the day after I receive the Mark II...

 

[Wahoowa]

My ambition is really low.

My wish list for 5D3:

- Improved & cleaner sensor at high ISO (1+ stop improvement over 5D2)
- 19 cross-type AF points,
- weather seal,
- LP-E6 battery pack (If they update it, just make it compatible with 7D/60D and vice versa.), and
- SD/CF slots,
- f-stop adjustable in Av mode for video (just like 5D2, whereas 7D/60D just have either full auto or full manual mode).

If 5D3 comes out with that for $2,600-$2,700, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.

- Would like to see ISO raised by 2+
- AF agreed
- Sealing agreed
- Battery AND Body the same/similar so we can still use the BG-E6 also would be nice. Otherwise I'm just moving all my LP-E6 batteries over to my old 60D.
- Would like to keep the CF card format, One of the cut downs from the 1DX could be single not Dual CF, so that could work.
- Disagree, Learn to use manual mode

It's not like I don't know how to do video in manual mode. But, it's just like still, much of the time it's convenient to use Av mode. Also, in video mode, it's not like we can adjust exposure conveniently without shaking the camera.

 

[jbwise01]

And I dont think the Mark III will canabolize the 1DX. If you have $6800 to spend on a camera, you are way beyond the Mark III announcement...

For starters, the 5D3 isn't going to have builtin gigabit ethernet. At the London Olympics, if you're not connected via ethernet to your editors, you can forget about having your picture on the front page or in the news.

At none of the pro sporting events that I've been at have I ever seen anything less than a 1D level camera being used by registered photographers for the event. And there is very good reason for that. So I call your argument about business "downsizing" its camera purchasing "baloney."

Thats the best Answer i've found to answer the question about cannablizing the 1Dx market.

I hope most people realize the 5D3 and 1Dx aren't in the same market to begin with. There is some overlap.. yes.. but the 1Dx is gives you 3 times the capabilitiy to "capture the moment" with Higher FPS and get it market with data transfer capabilities. Of all the cameras that would eat into the 1Dx market, the 7D2 would be the one canon should worry about eating 1Dx market share, the lack of FF will probably keep that separartion clear.

I would think the 5D3 would be marketed to sell in mass quantity in an attempt by canon to overtyake the FF market. For this some features will be scaled back and it seems logical that canon would have a slim profit margin for this cam. I expect a $2499 price point with 2 digic 5's an 18 MP sensor, greatly improved ISO (for video perfromance mainly) and slight improvement in AF.

 

[pedro]

I would think the 5D3 would be marketed to sell in mass quantity in an attempt by canon to overtyake the FF market. For this some features will be scaled back and it seems logical that canon would have a slim profit margin for this cam. I expect a $2499 price point with 2 digic 5's an 18 MP sensor, greatly improved ISO (for video perfromance mainly) and slight improvement in AF.

I hope this cam will materialize. Seems about perfect to me. Even if the price tag is more towards 3k. 18 MP and fine ISO's. That's all my photography needs.

 

[lol]

I can now state with confidence the 5D3, whatever it will be, will be out very soon. How? Because I just put in an order for the 5D2...

 

[jweu]

Well, I dont think Canon will announce both of them at the same time. I bet on 5D Mk III announced around summer time and 7D Mk II announced in september (if it will be).

I think that 5D Mk III wont be announced in January - before 1D-X becomes available. Depends of course on specs but it doesnt make much sense for me. They need to roll out 1 pro camera and see the numbers and response to know when they should pop out with new "affordable" FF - even if this is case when 5D Mk III will be 30+ Mpx and worse AF from 1D-X. They need to figure out with which specs (especially sensor) to bail out into production. Also they still have good numbers on current 5D Mk II so there is no rush for them. Maybe Nikon will change the game a bit with D700 successor but there is no info on that body.

Right, the announcement of 5D Mk III will come more than ½year after 1D-X is available. I hope, 5D Mk III is 30+ Mpx with High ISO at 20Mpx "low resolution" images.

 

[jweu]

The modern sensors have more than 100 line pairs per mm, why don't we see any MTF data reflecting the resolution of the sensors? Why there is no vigentting information from Canon? Does Canon think we are not able to read technical data? It's unbeleavable!

 

[Jettatore]

You understand that this camera will never be released until I buy the current 5D MarkII

Soooo... If you ever want to see this camera, you can all pitch in and pick me up the current 5D Mark II... I guarantee that it will come out the day after I receive the Mark II...

Hahahhahahaahah. I'll toss in three bucks for that effort, and I believe it too.

 

[tt]

Does anyone have a historical perspective of previous launches/announcements around Photokina lens & specifically camera wise?