A new Canon ILC has hit certification

[David - Sydney]

Craig, any ideas on the "normal" length of time between Russia certification and either announcement to shipping date?
Canon did get a thrashing on the teaser campaign for the R5 and whilst technically accurate, it really over hyped the video/overheating feature set. Still, a R1 would certainly have a development announcement together with lenses

 

[Perio]

And why is it certified in Russia?

Both RF 400 and 600mm telephoto were also certified in Russia.

 

[reef58]

Craig, any ideas on the "normal" length of time between Russia certification and either announcement to shipping date?
Canon did get a thrashing on the teaser campaign for the R5 and whilst technically accurate, it really over hyped the video/overheating feature set. Still, a R1 would certainly have a development announcement together with lenses

I don't think they over-hyped it at all. It is a great stills camera and a superb video rig. What does it not do, shoot an hour of 8k?

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I'm okay without a GS as long as the readout speed matches or exceeds that of the Sony A1

I do not think readout speed matters very much with a glocal shutter.
The entire image is captured by the sensor at the same time and is serialized.
The image processor can take its time reading it.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

*EDIT* - This post is about claiming 16 Quad Bayer pixels vs the normal 4 Bayer pixels. It is *not* about QP vs DP design.

I still don't see what benefit a Quad Pixel AF "Quad-Bayer" (16 Bayer pixels) could offer. For pixels in focus (where you would want extra resolution), phase detect DP or QP gives the same dual or quad values for all values (by design) so there's no benefit there. With out of focus pixels (where the QP values differ) , who cares about increasing resolution as it's just a smear which could be done in post.

So I only see "QP AF, Quad-Bayer" as marketing BS overclaiming of resolution which I hope Canon has the integrity to avoid.

Also, to be clear, I see QP AF (by itself) as a brilliant AF method and the #1 new feature which I *really* want to have in my next camera! I have fully given over AF (with my use of "spot focus" and "eye focus" back buttons) to the camera and QP would be a massive improvement over the already brilliant DP design in the R5.

The entire point of a global shutter is that it captures the entire image at once.
Once focus is achieved it does not seem to be a big deal to capture the image using the entire sensor including the focus pixels.
That would take twice as long and be 4 times the resolution which is exactly the rumored spec.

 

[David - Sydney]

Wow - it looks like you really got a photo of it! Thanks! I'm glad to see a 3-way switch for AF range (far/both/near). They should have that on all their zooms! I wonder if this has their 1:1.4x magnification?

Now I wonder if they're going to have RF macro primes like this in the 180+mm range?

Many of the zooms do have far/near/full focusing options. The macro in particular since the focal distances have a wide range ie close minimum focusing ability

 

[David - Sydney]

I don't think they over-hyped it at all. It is a great stills camera and a superb video rig. What does it not do, shoot an hour of 8k?

Shamelessly recycling another post... over a 6 months worth of announcements which was the main issue. I contend that admitting there would be reasonable time limits eg 10 minutes for firmware 1.0 would have meant that the reviewers would have tempered their unrealistic expectations.

Internet: Canon could never put 8K full frame in to a mirrorless camera. They don't have the technical capabilities to do that. The last time they innovated was when 5d mkii was born.
Canon: Our next 5 series will have 8K and demonstrate what we are capable of.
Internet: (spits coffee on screen) Yeah right. Maybe 8K timelapse mode
Canon: No, 8K video
Internet: Er no, 8K like 15 second movie burst mode then, because you know overheating would happen in such a small body. Do Canon engineers not know anything about physics? That's why refrigerators exist....
Canon: No full 8K video
Internet: Yeah right.... hahaha. It's not possible. So no AF or IBIS then. You won't be able to use the full technologies of the camera/
Canon: No. 8K Full frame, AF and IBIS enabled.
Internet: It's not possible, because you know.... overheating is a thing with technology in such a small package. If it was possible then Sony would have done it.
Canon: Hold our beer.....

Post launch
Internet: I demand a full unconditional apology from Canon. I demand immediately that they give us unlimited 8K full frame video for $4.99 and stop hiding behind this "overheating" scenario to protect their other cameras. I’ve never felt so personally insulted by a camera company as I have by Canon. To me honest behaviour is very important. I recognize that the only person that is perfect is me and people make mistakes. The important thing is to admit that and not to sell us totally unusable technology like this…

 

[Billybob]

I do not think readout speed matters very much with a glocal shutter.
The entire image is captured by the sensor at the same time and is serialized.
The image processor can take its time reading it.

Undoubtedly correct, but what does your response have to do with my post?

I said that I was okay without a GS provided the readout speed is fast. If there is no GS--which was my point--then readout speed does indeed matter. To the point, a GS is much less compelling with sufficiently fast readout. rolling shutter is not a factor. Whereas I'm sure that are other benefits to a GS, eliminating distortion from RS is the most significant one to me.

 

[TravelerNick]

It's not that it's certified in Russia. It's that the rumour is coming out of the Russian certification body. It's likely also been filed with the EU,Japan,FCC , Canada etc. But the Russians blabbed

 

[David - Sydney]

I do not think readout speed matters very much with a glocal shutter.
The entire image is captured by the sensor at the same time and is serialized.
The image processor can take its time reading it.

Ultimately the read speed from the sensor will approximate zero if a global shutter is possible. For rolling shutter then the time between frames becomes the issue AFAIK. Sensor capture time will never theoretically be zero but could be close. We haven't had a global shutter before with still cameras so it will be interesting to see the specs and results when a manufacturer claims to have one. As opposed to video cameras where Arri etc do claim it ie the lack of rolling shutter = global shutter. Not sure if they claim global shutter in all frame rates though eg 120fps.

 

[mclaren777]

5DV! 5DV! 5DV!

 

[reef58]

Shamelessly recycling another post... over a 6 months worth of announcements which was the main issue. I contend that admitting there would be reasonable time limits eg 10 minutes for firmware 1.0 would have meant that the reviewers would have tempered their unrealistic expectations.

Internet: Canon could never put 8K full frame in to a mirrorless camera. They don't have the technical capabilities to do that. The last time they innovated was when 5d mkii was born.
Canon: Our next 5 series will have 8K and demonstrate what we are capable of.
Internet: (spits coffee on screen) Yeah right. Maybe 8K timelapse mode
Canon: No, 8K video
Internet: Er no, 8K like 15 second movie burst mode then, because you know overheating would happen in such a small body. Do Canon engineers not know anything about physics? That's why refrigerators exist....
Canon: No full 8K video
Internet: Yeah right.... hahaha. It's not possible. So no AF or IBIS then. You won't be able to use the full technologies of the camera/
Canon: No. 8K Full frame, AF and IBIS enabled.
Internet: It's not possible, because you know.... overheating is a thing with technology in such a small package. If it was possible then Sony would have done it.
Canon: Hold our beer.....

Post launch
Internet: I demand a full unconditional apology from Canon. I demand immediately that they give us unlimited 8K full frame video for $4.99 and stop hiding behind this "overheating" scenario to protect their other cameras. I’ve never felt so personally insulted by a camera company as I have by Canon. To me honest behaviour is very important. I recognize that the only person that is perfect is me and people make mistakes. The important thing is to admit that and not to sell us totally unusable technology like this…

That sums it up pretty well. That being said the internet fire storm(pun intended) was a bit of a feeding frenzy for clicks. I know the firmware helped but people have actually own the camera to use it don't have many issues. Some camera lockups seem to happen. You can't shoot 8k or downsampled 4k indefinitely.

 

[Rumourhasit]

Exactly, I can tell you 90% of my YouTube subs are over 45, anyone younger is using a smartphone and only a small percentage are interested in an ILC and the only ILC bodies that will have features to beat a smartphone and AI computational photos will be expensive

 

[Ozarker]

I doubt that. I imagine most well to do hobbiest would sooner just buy a Leica. While I love Canon and feel they largely produce more technically advanced cameras than Leica, Canon does not come close to carrying the same panache as the Red dot. That said, after the depressing rumors of the R1 being delayed until next year, I starting
seriously considering a Leica M10 Monochrom “Leitz Wetlzlar” with a Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH... While it only shoots monochrome, I’ve found myself thinking that perhaps less is more... and given that this is a Leica (with a price tag of $15,889.40 for the body and a single lens) well, less really is more:-D

So in my case whatever Canon prices the R1 at, it’s going to feel cheap. The truth is the Canon makes a lot more sense for me as I have lots of RF glass... but I gave away my R series bodies; So all I have now to shoot with is Sonys. I’m still waiting on my Komodo... no telling when that thing will ship. But even then, I know the R1 would see more usage. I was never without my 1DXMK2. That brick went everywhere with me.

I just had a thought. Could it be that in the long run the Leica is cheaper? Most old cameras are just considered outdated. But even old Leica are considered cool... indeed, many are sort after. Perhaps Leica is the cure to GAS? One camera... one lens... for life!

Damit... I’ll probably just buy both.

Um... okay. The R5 and R1 are priced for the great unwashed masses, not the well to do. Of course, the poor rich get Leica. The rich rich get a Hasselblad or something.... Jeeves! Jeeves!

 

[usern4cr]

The entire point of a global shutter is that it captures the entire image at once.
Once focus is achieved it does not seem to be a big deal to capture the image using the entire sensor including the focus pixels.
That would take twice as long and be 4 times the resolution which is exactly the rumored spec.

I don't understand how your reply regarding global shutter has anything to do with my comment about whether to claim a single QuadPixel gives you (the usual) 4 pixels vs. 16 pixels(which I think would be bogus). To me, they are completely independant issues which have nothing to do with the other.

By the way, I do agree that having a global shutter is indeed a great feature, and if you have it then the readout speed is (probably) not as critical. But there will be those that want high frame rates for video or high FPS stills which will still require a high enough speed readout (whether or not there is a global shutter). However if a global shutter has 2 image buffers (one being exposed and one already exposed and being read out) then the speed of the readout can be much slower and still give even better overall FPS performance. But a global shutter might have only 1 image buffer - we'll see. But again, this is a separate issue from what I posted.

 

[usern4cr]

Many of the zooms do have far/near/full focusing options. The macro in particular since the focal distances have a wide range ie close minimum focusing ability

My comment about 3 way switches vs 2 way switches is because on the RF 70-200L and RF 100-500L they both have only 2 way switches, which I think is a very bad (and needless) decision, and one I have to live with. If you're going to have a distance switch, you might as well make it a 3 way switch (far, both, & near) so everyone is happy. Hopefully Canon will see their mistake and not repeat it in the future.

 

[koenkooi]

My comment about 3 way switches vs 2 way switches is because on the RF 70-200L and RF 100-500L they both have only 2 way switches, which I think is a very bad (and needless) decision, and one I have to live with. If you're going to have a distance switch, you might as well make it a 3 way switch (far, both, & near) so everyone is happy. Hopefully Canon will see their mistake and not repeat it in the future.

Or add a software limiter where we can pick the range ourselves.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Sensor capture time will never theoretically be zero but could be close. We haven't had a global shutter before with still cameras so it will be interesting to see the specs and results when a manufacturer claims to have one. As opposed to video cameras where Arri etc do claim it ie the lack of rolling shutter = global shutter. Not sure if they claim global shutter in all frame rates though eg 120fps.

I have been told the document in this link is for the sensor used in Komodo.

Rolling Shutter vs Global Shutter sCMOS Camera Mode- Oxford Instruments

This article outlines the differences between Rolling Shutter vs Global Shutter camera modes. Discover the mode that best suits your needs

andor.oxinst.com

It can flip between rolling and global shutter.
The only reasons I can think of for using the rolling shutter mode is to save energy or to get a faster exposure which leads me to believe there is a minimum exposure time for the global shutter.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

It's not that it's certified in Russia. It's that the rumour is coming out of the Russian certification body. It's likely also been filed with the EU,Japan,FCC , Canada etc. But the Russians blabbed

I can only assume that registration is public information in Russia.
Registration there always seems to hit the news.

 

[pzyber]

My bet is on an R replacement. The Ra is listed as discontinued everywhere here in Sweden. The R seems to be order only now and noone seems to stock it anymore, same status as Ra had a couple of months ago.