A new Canon ILC has hit certification

Feb 15, 2020
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I have been told the document in this link is for the sensor used in Komodo.
It can flip between rolling and global shutter.
The only reasons I can think of for using the rolling shutter mode is to save energy or to get a faster exposure which leads me to believe there is a minimum exposure time for the global shutter.
Does changing to rolling shutter increase the dynamic range in this case? I have heard that global shutter can lose you around 1 stop of dynamic range
 
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BPhoto06

Canon EOS R
Feb 12, 2021
10
16
Usually they announce in strong correlation with Olympics. This year we face Tokyo "2020", this is the one and only date of birth for the R1 as professional sports camera.
Yes, the R5 will stay in program for some years but it might get some derivates (video focussed, 100MP, ....)
This is true, but if Canon adds derivates of the R5 they will be the R5s and R5c. This camera might be the R1 as it includes the EOS 1Dx name.
 

BPhoto06

Canon EOS R
Feb 12, 2021
10
16
This camera could be the new R1 as it includes the name Canon EOS 1Dx in the certification. This could mean that they are certificating the mirrorless replacement to the 1Dx Mk 3.
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS RP
Sep 20, 2020
466
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Does changing to rolling shutter increase the dynamic range in this case? I have heard that global shutter can lose you around 1 stop of dynamic range
There is not really a technical reason to be true in theory but it does tend to be true in practice.*
C70 has a rolling shutter plus DGO yet it has pretty much the same dynamic range as the similarly priced RED Komodo.
If the C70 had a global shutter it would lose DGO and 3 EV of dynamic range but that is only because the underlying sensor has 3 less EV than the one in the Komodo.
Canon has a patent for a global shutter with a whole 20 EV of dynamic range but Canon could theoretically make a C70 that could switch between DGO and Global Shutter.
That would be pretty bad-ass.

*In theory, everything works in practice. In practice, everything works in theory.
-Yogi Berra (Maybe. It has also been attributed to Einstein and a bunch of other folks)
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS RP
Sep 20, 2020
466
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Honestly, with the rush to discontinue EF lenses left and right do you really think a 5Dv is likely?

pzyber: The Ra is listed as discontinued everywhere here in Sweden.​


Well, If discontinuing a few things means Canon is dropping the entire line then I can only assume Canon is dropping their RF line next.

/I have to admit that Canon is discontinuing some seemingly important EF lenses but many of them have no viable RF replacements.
//I really have no idea what Canon is doing or why.
///Nikon seems like the most predictable camera company right now.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS RP
Sep 20, 2020
466
313
Does changing to rolling shutter increase the dynamic range in this case? I have heard that global shutter can lose you around 1 stop of dynamic range
OK, one more thing to reinforce what you heard.
Rolling shutter mode only turns on the lines of photosites on the sensor that are being read.
This creates less interference in the form of image noise.
Global shutter mode has a higher noise floor which I imagine would result in the loss of a stop or more.
(16+ stops was probably enough for RED to disable rolling shutter mode.)
The exposure time is also double which should never really be a problem for video.
 
Feb 15, 2020
486
341
OK, one more thing to reinforce what you heard.
Rolling shutter mode only turns on the lines of photosites on the sensor that are being read.
This creates less interference in the form of image noise.
Global shutter mode has a higher noise floor which I imagine would result in the loss of a stop or more.
(16+ stops was probably enough for RED to disable rolling shutter mode.)
The exposure time is also double which should never really be a problem for video.
Very interesting, thanks for the insight.
 

Ph0t0

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 27, 2015
54
34

pzyber: The Ra is listed as discontinued everywhere here in Sweden.​


Well, If discontinuing a few things means Canon is dropping the entire line then I can only assume Canon is dropping their RF line next.

/I have to admit that Canon is discontinuing some seemingly important EF lenses but many of them have no viable RF replacements.
//I really have no idea what Canon is doing or why.
///Nikon seems like the most predictable camera company right now.
Well discontinuing one product isn't exactly the same as starting a line with a new mount and discontinuing a whole bunch of lenses

But yeah when Canon launches another full frame mount, starts aggressively releasing lenses and cameras for the new mount, discontinues about 15 RF lenses without releasing newer RF versions and when Canon officials say that they are fully commiting their resources and R&D to the new mount. Then you can safely assume that Canon is dropping their RF line next.
But as long as they only have one camera model (the one that was a bit niche anyway) listed as discontinued in Sweden I wouldn't worry to much.
 

zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,129
317
Well discontinuing one product isn't exactly the same as starting a line with a new mount and discontinuing a whole bunch of lenses

But yeah when Canon launches another full frame mount, starts aggressively releasing lenses and cameras for the new mount, discontinues about 15 RF lenses without releasing newer RF versions and when Canon officials say that they are fully commiting their resources and R&D to the new mount. Then you can safely assume that Canon is dropping their RF line next.
But as long as they only have one camera model (the one that was a bit niche anyway) listed as discontinued in Sweden I wouldn't worry to much.
I take it you meant EF for the first and last mentions of RF!
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,201
2,072
I take it you meant EF for the first and last mentions of RF!
pzyber was sarcastically saying "gee they dropped the Ra, maybe they're going to kill the RF mount now", and he was responding to that--under what circumstances would one be able to claim RF was on the chopping block.

Basically, those are NOW the circumstances EF is going through, but just a couple of weeks ago only one or two lenses had been dropped, and people were already starting to panic. I even told one of them they were being a bit premature; further events showed I was wrong.
 
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zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,129
317
pzyber was sarcastically saying "gee they dropped the Ra, maybe they're going to kill the RF mount now", and he was responding to that--under what circumstances would one be able to claim RF was on the chopping block.

Basically, those are NOW the circumstances EF is going through, but just a couple of weeks ago only one or two lenses had been dropped, and people were already starting to panic. I even told one of them they were being a bit premature; further events showed I was wrong.
Ok thanks for taking the time to explain that went right over my head! :rolleyes:
 

pape2

EOS 90D
Mar 19, 2021
111
142
Maybe they invented transparent sensor and putted mirror behind it .
And now going back to old. RF lenses werent smaller and didnt gave better image quality becouse shorter flange distance . :p
Complaint storm from blind photographers about rear caps been too much , even guide dogs cant turn them right on.
 
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Billybob

800mm f/11 because a cellphone isn't long enough!
May 22, 2016
161
289
OK, one more thing to reinforce what you heard.
Rolling shutter mode only turns on the lines of photosites on the sensor that are being read.
This creates less interference in the form of image noise.
Global shutter mode has a higher noise floor which I imagine would result in the loss of a stop or more.
(16+ stops was probably enough for RED to disable rolling shutter mode.)
The exposure time is also double which should never really be a problem for video.
Okay, so why do we want a global shutter for action/bird photography? I know GS eliminates rolling shutter distortion, but Sony has shown that fast readout does the same without increased noise and a hit to DR. I suspect GS if it is fast enough and if it has sufficient DR is probably the end goal, but the KISS principle suggests that very fast readout gets us most of the way (all the way?) there with existing and proven technology.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS RP
Sep 20, 2020
466
313
Okay, so why do we want a global shutter for action/bird photography? I know GS eliminates rolling shutter distortion, but Sony has shown that fast readout does the same without increased noise and a hit to DR. I suspect GS if it is fast enough and if it has sufficient DR is probably the end goal, but the KISS principle suggests that very fast readout gets us most of the way (all the way?) there with existing and proven technology.
The main advantage to a global shutter is that it is like a mechanical shutter with no moving parts and infinite actuations.
DR is sacrificed at the maximum burst speed for a rolling shutter as well.
CMOS GS in proven tech at this point.
The documentation that was provided in the link I posted up-thread is the best comparison between rolling and global shutter since it is the same processor that can switch between modes.
The rolling readout is 10ms which is crazy fast and the global shutter DR has 16+ EV.
By the way, for long exposures, a rolling shutter would have the same noise and DR as a global shutter since the entire sensor will be on most of the time. There also would be no rolling shutter works.
Also, the whole sensor is on when using a mechanical shutter.
It still turns the sensor on one line at a time but the entire sensor is on before the shutter opens.
Thanks for making me explain this.
It made me realize that a global shutter does not 100% replace a mechanical shutter.
Canon uses the shutter to protect the sensor so I do not think they will remove it unless they want to swap it for internal ND.
 
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Billybob

800mm f/11 because a cellphone isn't long enough!
May 22, 2016
161
289
The main advantage to a global shutter is that it is like a mechanical shutter with no moving parts and infinite actuations.
DR is sacrificed at the maximum burst speed for a rolling shutter as well.
CMOS GS in proven tech at this point.
The documentation that was provided in the link I posted up-thread is the best comparison between rolling and global shutter since it is the same processor that can switch between modes.
The rolling readout is 10ms which is crazy fast and the global shutter DR has 16+ EV.
By the way, for long exposures, a rolling shutter would have the same noise and DR as a global shutter since the entire sensor will be on most of the time. There also would be no rolling shutter works.
Also, the whole sensor is on when using a mechanical shutter.
It still turns the sensor on one line at a time but the entire sensor is on before the shutter opens.
Thanks for making me explain this.
It made me realize that a global shutter does not 100% replace a mechanical shutter.
Canon uses the shutter to protect the sensor so I do not think they will remove it unless they want to swap it for internal ND.
I didn't read your article, but I did find one at B&H. So, GS tech does exist, the problem seems to be that it is very expensive to build one once sensor size gets large. The problem seems to be heat, noise, and yes cost (I don't know what your 16+ EV means; everyone seems to have a different DR measure. At DXO, I think 14 is the max, and on PhotonsToPhotos, 12 EV is the max; so I'll just take your word that GS is capable of good DR).

So my personal preference is for whichever method gets us there--low/nonexistent rolling shutter distortion--with the greatest reliability and affordability.
 
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