Polansky said:
This seems like pure BS. Digic II vs. Digic 4, live view, almost twice the pixels with great IQ, sensor cleaning, etc. It's hard to believe you actually use cameras at all.
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A New Entry Level Full Frame Camera? [CR1]
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This seems like pure BS. Digic II vs. Digic 4, live view, almost twice the pixels with great IQ, sensor cleaning, etc. It's hard to believe you actually use cameras at all.
I agree. If an entry level DSLR is coming, it won't be named 7d mkii. It just doesn't make sense and it will confuse customers.pwp said:
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Dave said:
Agreed
I dont understand why they can't take the 60D as we have it today and stick the FF sensor of the 5D2 in there.
That could make the xxD series the entry FF cameras and differentiate them from the xxxD line better.
They really need to either drop or merge a few lines so they can refine their products to particular markets more.
eg
1D m4 (1D + 1Ds lines merged full frame PRO photo camera)
5D m3 (high end video rich DSLR)
7D (high end APS-c line)
60D m2 (budget FF line)
600D (basic APS-c line)
1100D (beginners DSLR line)
That way the xD series are the pro cameras, the xxD are the semi pros or advanced amateurs, xxxD is where the money is with the bulk of retail sales and hobbyists, xxxxD my first DSLR people (also in funky colours to sell to younger generations).
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Bokehmon
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AG said:
you clearly don't understand that the cost of producing a full frame sensor would mean that they cannot maintain the 60D price point. also, canon isn't can't just combine cameras, they need to compete against the competition at certain price points and features, which means that a one shoe fits all scenario is unlikely.
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gene_can_sing
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I have a feeling this might be the Video optimized full frame.
Why? Because video works best with lower mega-pixels. I've read that for the best video, the camera shouldn't go above 12 mega pixels because it starts to introduce line skipping.
That would be awesome because I just want a full frame video camera with a flip screen (which many stills people hate) that has lower megapixels and better ISOs, kind of like the Nikon D700, but with good video.
This is what is needed. 1) A video based full frame, and also 2) a still based full frame 5D3 for those who hate video (but it will probably still have video because it's become a huge part of Canon's strategy). Video was a HUGE reason for the 5D2 success, so sorry stills people, but it's here to stay.
Why? Because video works best with lower mega-pixels. I've read that for the best video, the camera shouldn't go above 12 mega pixels because it starts to introduce line skipping.
That would be awesome because I just want a full frame video camera with a flip screen (which many stills people hate) that has lower megapixels and better ISOs, kind of like the Nikon D700, but with good video.
This is what is needed. 1) A video based full frame, and also 2) a still based full frame 5D3 for those who hate video (but it will probably still have video because it's become a huge part of Canon's strategy). Video was a HUGE reason for the 5D2 success, so sorry stills people, but it's here to stay.
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JonB1975
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Depending on the price - I'm in.
600D size and weight and FF? Perfect for the mid-level primes....
600D size and weight and FF? Perfect for the mid-level primes....
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pwp said:
I can count 4 EF-S lenses that would make people possibly hesitate at FF and nothing more:
EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM
I own and use the last 3; they wouldn't stop me from getting a FF camera. The above lenses resale isn't all that bad, if you got them at a reasonably good price to start with.
Whatever the badge is, an entry level FF is DEFINITELY aimed at the 60D/7D owners and potential buyers.
We also don't know what's going to happen with the next gen of cameras. I've seen more than a few people on this forum mention that they do not like the articulating screen for robustness reasons, but it'd be hard for a company to explain why an articulating screen isn't added to any 'entry' level camera in almost any camera.
Personally, I like the rumor but won't get my hopes up . . . I wanted a 7D but could not force myself to pony up the cash and not get FF. I guess we'll see.
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I agree that many of the ef-s lenses are very good. Often the 1.62x crop offers a really nice reach advantage and with the rise of affordable and optically good ultra wides there is often little to choose between the two crop formats. But full frame does offer better pixel clarity and contrast and then there's the whole depth of field debate. If I want less dof....ff rules, if I want more dof....the 1.62x crop rocks.
Personally, I use both formats and love em both.
Personally, I use both formats and love em both.
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UncleFester
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trulandphoto said:
I love drive-by rumors - instant flame-war.
@Polansky - I hear what you're trying to say but price-wise alone place the 5D and 5DII well above entry-level.
If Canon comes out with another ff and categorizes it as "entry-level", it may very well feature higher tech specs than the current 5D, but will have a plastic body, pop-op flash, flip-out lcd, etc. In hand it will feel much cheaper and perform accordingly.
@Truland- you have some nice photos on your site.
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justicend
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For sure new entry level FF camera will have no weather sealed, plastic body and variable angle LCD, what else and new kit lens without red ring.
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robert55
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For the foreseeable future 7D [with mark#] will be the name of Canon's top crop camera. There is a clear place for such a camera. Making it FF would turn it into a sort of 5D]
This newest rumor is in two ways consistent with earlier rumors about the 5D3:
- the price of the 5D3could go up significantly, which leaves more room for a ceaper model [a 60D equivalent with FF]
- the new 5D would get a sensor with fewer pixels than the new 1Ds would get
The unlikely thing with the second part is that Canon would have to make three different sensors for FF. Even if they rework the 5D2 sensor for the cheapest camera that is a lot compared to the use of basically the same sensor in three crop camera's and Sony using the same sensor in its SLT and Nex lines and selling versions to Pentax and Nikon
This newest rumor is in two ways consistent with earlier rumors about the 5D3:
- the price of the 5D3could go up significantly, which leaves more room for a ceaper model [a 60D equivalent with FF]
- the new 5D would get a sensor with fewer pixels than the new 1Ds would get
The unlikely thing with the second part is that Canon would have to make three different sensors for FF. Even if they rework the 5D2 sensor for the cheapest camera that is a lot compared to the use of basically the same sensor in three crop camera's and Sony using the same sensor in its SLT and Nex lines and selling versions to Pentax and Nikon
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martijn
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Interesting thought...but I think this is just a pipedream.
Apart from the extra R&D costs involved (for an 'entry level' product that, as such, would probably sell at lower profit margins), production facilities are still recovering from events earlier this year.
Refresh cycles have been delayed across the board as it is-I doubt whether there would be enough headroom for an extra level in the range.
If they really would want to do something like this, it would be far simpler to lower prices on the 5DII, keeping it current alongside a new, and much more expensive 5DIII. But they can't make enough 5DII's as it is...I don't see that happening either. And you certainly can't just stick an FF sensor into an existing APS-C design, the metrics and dynamics are very different.
Actually, FF cameras aren't entry-level product by definition-they do require bigger and better glass too, and longer tele's to make up for the lack of crop factor...and, just in case you hadn't noticed (ouch!), quality glass is getting more expensive by the minute...
Apart from the extra R&D costs involved (for an 'entry level' product that, as such, would probably sell at lower profit margins), production facilities are still recovering from events earlier this year.
Refresh cycles have been delayed across the board as it is-I doubt whether there would be enough headroom for an extra level in the range.
If they really would want to do something like this, it would be far simpler to lower prices on the 5DII, keeping it current alongside a new, and much more expensive 5DIII. But they can't make enough 5DII's as it is...I don't see that happening either. And you certainly can't just stick an FF sensor into an existing APS-C design, the metrics and dynamics are very different.
Actually, FF cameras aren't entry-level product by definition-they do require bigger and better glass too, and longer tele's to make up for the lack of crop factor...and, just in case you hadn't noticed (ouch!), quality glass is getting more expensive by the minute...
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this is most probably a pipe dream
unless the camera is an 8D catering to video users, with a very small megapixel count (<12) but getting rid of all the current issues (line-skipping, rolling shutter, etc)
because this could make sense, and because they could share the R&D cost for such a sensor with the video division
unless the camera is an 8D catering to video users, with a very small megapixel count (<12) but getting rid of all the current issues (line-skipping, rolling shutter, etc)
because this could make sense, and because they could share the R&D cost for such a sensor with the video division
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The 5D MK II is already the photosite density of the Canon 20D. Thats very low. even Nikoon executives admitted that their low pixel count would not happen again.
This sounds like it was made up by someone who likes the old 6mp Canon D30, because thats what we would have density wide if there were a 12mp FF camera like the D700.
I'd certainly never downgrade to one from my 5D MK II or trade out my 7D either for that matter.
This sounds like it was made up by someone who likes the old 6mp Canon D30, because thats what we would have density wide if there were a 12mp FF camera like the D700.
I'd certainly never downgrade to one from my 5D MK II or trade out my 7D either for that matter.
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