A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

[Don Haines]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

I believe all amplifiers with SONY are on the CMOS and with CANON are not. How will they merge that logic. Complete change of logic on one or both of vendors' proprietary DSP (digital signal processor). In Canon that means DIGIC 7S (s - for Sony sensors).

And how have they merged Sony sensor with Canon DIGiC 6 in G7 X?

BTW: currently I've got reasons to consider all that Canon/Sony tech exchange to be [CR0] eg. never going to happen. Still there is a chance I'm wrong.

Two whole different sensors, in G7X it is a Sony BSI, in the SLR cameras there are Sony Exmor

But the Canon Sony RX100 clone has a Sony Exmor chip and uses Digic.
Who says they have to use any ADC part of DIGIC?
Are we even sure the ADC is part of digic itself?

I was under the impression that the A/D was done on an Analog Devices chip between the sensor and the processor....

 

[Don Haines]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Why does everyone assume it is a done deal that an Exmore chip will be used?

It could be Sony fabricating a new Canon design that they are able to produce more efficiently than Canon can in-house...

It could be Sony fabricating an existing Canon design....

It could be Sony fabricating a hybrid Sony/Canon design...

It could be a pure Sony design...

It could just be a rumour....

It could be a prototype...

It could be lots of things....

We don't know. Period!

 

[Khufu]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

I know which, I'm just not saying...

 

[PureClassA]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

I know which, I'm just not saying...

Ah so YOU are the source of the rumor mill then :

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Why does everyone assume it is a done deal that an Exmore chip will be used?

It could be Sony fabricating a new Canon design that they are able to produce more efficiently than Canon can in-house...

It could be Sony fabricating an existing Canon design....

It could be Sony fabricating a hybrid Sony/Canon design...

It could be a pure Sony design...

It could just be a rumour....

It could be a prototype...

It could be lots of things....

We don't know. Period!

Of course, but why go to a rumor site if you don't wanna discuss things about if so and so proves to be true?

 

[Famateur]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Why does everyone assume it is a done deal that an Exmore chip will be used?

It could be Sony fabricating a new Canon design that they are able to produce more efficiently than Canon can in-house...

It could be Sony fabricating an existing Canon design....

It could be Sony fabricating a hybrid Sony/Canon design...

It could be a pure Sony design...

It could just be a rumour....

It could be a prototype...

It could be lots of things....

We don't know. Period!

Of course, but why go to a rumor site if you don't wanna discuss things about if so and so proves to be true?

I think Don's comment was more directed toward tone than topic.

 

[Famateur]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Canon: All right. Who makes the sensor? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both take pictures, and find out who has Canon... and who has Sony.

LOL...I got a kick out of this. Very well done, Don!

Neuro: And to think, all that time it was your camera that had a canon sensor.

Wait...Does this make Neuro Princess Buttercup???

 

[Famateur]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Neuro NancyP: And to think, all that time it was your camera that had a canon sensor.

There, Neuro -- I fixed it for you.

 

[K]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Not really. Canon didn't really tune for anything much. They don't have the ability to not have the curve fade down at low ISO, they are forced into it.

Also if you compare 6D to D750 then it's only like 1/4 stop better for high ISO DR, that is NOTHING. Even the D810 (which was tuned down a touch to be extra good at low ISO since the base is ISO64 instead of ISO100) is still only like 1/2 stop worse at high ISO. And the Exmor in the A7S which has base set to favor high ISO a bit, I believe has both better low ISO DR (although not by quite as much as the D810) and a tiny bit better at high ISO than the 6D at the same time.

How old is the 6D, how new is the 810 and 750?

My point is clear, Nikon doesn't deserve the over the top hype and praise for DR it receives when their cameras are technically worse than the Canon after ISO 1000. Sure, it's within a 1/4 stop which in practical terms is nothing. So again, why the big praise over Canon for DR?

At low ISO, sure - hence they make good landscape cameras. That is about it.

The general internet impression and buzz over the last couple years has been that Nikon blows away Canon on DR because of the Sony sensor. This is just not true, and has to be put into a proper context.

 

[jeffa4444]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Either way: cool. Hopefully sourcing sensors will bring down the cost.

Sony's going to want a piece of the action; my guess is that it raises prices.

I'm guessing that Sony can sell Canon sensors at a profit for less than Canon can produce them. But I suppose it's a pipe dream that, if true, any of that savings shows up in MSRP.

On the other hand, I hope Canon doesn't get out of the sensor business entirely -- we need more competition.

Sony, Aptina, Toshiba, Samsung, Fuji, Foveon, etc. are all pushing innovation. I agree that more is better, but one fewer player in a component game isn't necessarily going to impact the market significantly.

Add to that list CMOSIS / TowerJazz, Onsemiconductor and a couple of Chinese companies

 

[c.d.embrey]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Sony's sensor division make very good products ... Sony's consumer camera division not so much. Think of Sony being Mercedes Benz, They make both Maybach (Sony Sensor) and Smart cars (Sony consumer cameras).

The Sony Fanbois grasp at every straw available trying to link their so-so cameras to other superior brands. Sony's consumer cameras have the very good Sony Sensor that is crippled by stupid thing like compressed raw, etc, etc. Bare Bones Software's motto is "It (still) doesn't suck." Sony's consumer camera division seems to think that people like camera software that sucks more. As long as Canon's camera software sucks less no-one (except Sony consumer camera Fanbois) really cares who makes the sensor.

 

[ritholtz]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Is this rumor true.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Is this rumor true.

There is more evidence that is still being analyzed. A Sony Manufactured Dual Pixel Sensor is being used in the latest Samsung Smart Phone.

It may indeed be a patent swap or we may see a Sony manufactured Dual Pixel Sensor in the latest models. I suspect that any swap of patent would restrict Sony from selling DPAF sensors for 1 inch and larger camera sensors. But for Camera phones, its worth a lot of $$ to Sony. They can sell gazillions to Samsung and Apple and a few dozen for Sony phones.

 

[RGF]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

This sounds like what Canon would do for the 5DsR Mark II.

Or perhaps the 5D M4. Backlit sensor (hope I have the correct term) used in the A7R II would be great in the 5DM4. Even if not 4x MP, but in the 30's range.

Of course we may see a Nikon 820 (or what ever the next model will be called) with the Sony 4x back lit sensor which will give the 5DS/SR a real run for its money.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Technology swap. DPAF for sensor tech. 1DX II looks to have on chip ADC and hopefully 80D, and Galaxy S7 is using Sony sensor with DPAF, seems coincidental, NOT!

 

[ritholtz]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Technology swap. DPAF for sensor tech. 1DX II looks to have on chip ADC and hopefully 80D, and Galaxy S7 is using Sony sensor with DPAF, seems coincidental, NOT!

Samsung released its own version of same sensor. Looks like it is samsung who own this tech with phone sensors.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Technology swap. DPAF for sensor tech. 1DX II looks to have on chip ADC and hopefully 80D, and Galaxy S7 is using Sony sensor with DPAF, seems coincidental, NOT!

or what happened was that Sony made the chip for Samsung.

which seems especially likely considering that Samsung just announced a DPAF 12MP sensor of it's own.

 

[3kramd5]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

or what happened was that Sony made the chip for Samsung.

which seems especially likely considering that Samsung just announced a DPAF 12MP sensor of it's own.

Some of the Galaxy S7s come with Sony fab sensors (IMX260). Some come with Samsung fab sensors (S5K2L1).

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Technology swap. DPAF for sensor tech. 1DX II looks to have on chip ADC and hopefully 80D, and Galaxy S7 is using Sony sensor with DPAF, seems coincidental, NOT!

Samsung released its own version of same sensor. Looks like it is samsung who own this tech with phone sensors.

Canon may have licensed it to both. I have read the Canon patent in detail and there's very little wriggle room for others to employ a similar version of DPAF.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

or what happened was that Sony made the chip for Samsung.

which seems especially likely considering that Samsung just announced a DPAF 12MP sensor of it's own.

Some of the Galaxy S7s come with Sony fab sensors (IMX260). Some come with Samsung fab sensors (S5K2L1).

Samsung could have contracted Sony to make it though. Sony would still give it a part number.

also the number is curious since Sony's OWN manufactured / sold sensors are up to IMX313 as far as designations.