All is Quiet, but the Good Stuff is Coming

[Loswr]

We wait and see the specs of the 6D2 and whether Canon lays an egg.

6D2 will sell wonderfully

So, it will be a golden egg.

This is the Canon Cult. A sure sign of a cult is the inability for members to speak negatively on any aspect whatsoever. Reading their rhetoric and propaganda - it is always positive, never a criticism. This implies Canon is perfection. Notice how the cultists refuse to ever say anything bad about Canon regardless of the thread or topic, no matter how warranted and truthful it might be. It is full on, complete denial all the time, always. And full on apologetics. Overall, I've said mostly positive things about Canon as they create mostly great products. But as soon as one product is called out for being weaksauce and poor value for dollars spent -- the CULT goes into overtime and swarms.

Evidently you need remedial studies in reading and comprehension.

 

[ahsanford]

This is the Canon Cult. A sure sign of a cult is the inability for members to speak negatively on any aspect whatsoever. Reading their rhetoric and propaganda - it is always positive, never a criticism. This implies Canon is perfection.

Stop for a moment and go back and read the very thread we are on. Canon is far from perfect, and we fully recognize that they could easily put more tech/features in their rigs to line up closer to the competition. No one is refuting that!

What's more cult-like and out of touch with reality is how far you want to make a point about AF points and card slots. You made that point. We heard you. We agree on the facts (Canon offers less in these areas) but we disagree on their impact to our buying decisions because -- for the thousandth time -- we value different aspects of a overall camera ecosystem than you do.

That's not apologism or delusional behavior. People have different sensibilities than you, and that is not a personal attack. That's just reality. How you choose to either accept that people value different things than you do or declare all of us as being insane for not seeing it your way says much more about you than it does us, but feel free to keep on keeping on.

- A

 

[unfocused]

This is the Canon Cult. A sure sign of a cult is the inability for members to speak negatively on any aspect whatsoever...And full on apologetics.

Hmm...I wasn't familiar with the term "apologetics." It turns out that it is "the religious discipline of defending or proving the truth of religious doctrines through systematic argumentation and discourse."

That doesn't fit with your description of a cult, but it might be an accurate description since the majority of those who disagree with you are using systematic argumentation and discourse to expose the fallacies in your rants. I may disagree with the religious analogy, but I kind of take it as a compliment that you recognize our systematic argumentation and discourse. You might want to try it sometime yourself.

 

[LonelyBoy]

We wait and see the specs of the 6D2 and whether Canon lays an egg.

It stands to reason based on past trends, that is what will happen - since Canon will not provide 5D4 AF in the 6D2 the same way Nikon provides their top AF in lower bodies. (let alone the dual card slot).

The irony. Canon built their whole rep on their AF. They were the AF kings, but Nikon has the edge on AF in two ways. First, it works better - secondly, they offer higher level AF across their lineup.


6D2 will sell wonderfully, thanks the the larger Canon user base. This will suffice as evidence to the fanatics here that it represents a great value compared to the competition. They'll reassure themselves to prevent any insecurities from creeping into their brand loyalty and buying decisions.

I never accused anyone here of actually being on the Canon payroll. I only accused many of sounding like they are. Which is even WORSE, because they are worshiping a brand and defending it for free.


This is the Canon Cult. A sure sign of a cult is the inability for members to speak negatively on any aspect whatsoever. Reading their rhetoric and propaganda - it is always positive, never a criticism. This implies Canon is perfection. Notice how the cultists refuse to ever say anything bad about Canon regardless of the thread or topic, no matter how warranted and truthful it might be. It is full on, complete denial all the time, always. And full on apologetics. Overall, I've said mostly positive things about Canon as they create mostly great products. But as soon as one product is called out for being weaksauce and poor value for dollars spent -- the CULT goes into overtime and swarms.

So, serious question: why do you care? If Nikon is better and cheaper, why are you hanging out here? I'm not telling you not to, but it's not like I go hang out at rumor sites for Nikon or Sony; I have way too few effs to give about what other people are shooting. If Nikon makes you happier, why do you care what Canon does? The only answer I can think of is that you really do prefer Canon, probably for the ecosystem, and wish their bodies had all the features of Nikon's. That ecosystem is why they're able to stratify the line and do the very effective upsell to get the features you feel are necessary. Nikon, lacking that ecosystem, has no choice but to put as much as they can into every body they make, because otherwise no one would have any reason to buy them whatsoever. They're giving away the farm to try to stay afloat, and it shows in their earnings.

 

[hbr]

K,
Do you actually own a Nikon D750? If so, then why are you anxiously awaiting the release of the 6D? If not, then why not?

 

[Orangutan]

the competition priced a far superior specced camera the same, which gives up NOTHING to the 6D and likely the 6D2

...

It's ok guys. Really, it's OK to admit that one camera in the Canon lineup doesn't live up to what it should be.

OK, I agree with you: the Nikon has better specs at the price. Now, what should I do with that?

 

[Keith_Reeder]

This is the Canon Cult. A sure sign of a cult is the inability for members to speak negatively on any aspect whatsoever. Reading their rhetoric and propaganda - it is always positive, never a criticism. This implies Canon is perfection.

What a cynical and dishonest misrepresentation of what's actually been said...

Again: it is perfectly possible to be satisfied with Canon - warts and all - without any of the drivel you've written being true. That's all you're seeing here, despite your glib attempt to characterise it as something else entirely.

You are actively ignoring salient facts relating to the success of the 6D (which will surely be built upon by its successor) in your attempt at smug, disingenuous dismissiveness.

Assuming you don't actually believe what you've written (JRR Tolkien would be proud of a work of fiction like that) what are you trying to achieve here? That you've got a politician's knack for word-twisting and obfuscation of facts?

And if you do believe it - you really need to reset your way of looking at the world...

Oh - and only a fool judges the worth of a camera purely by the spec sheet.

 

[hbr]

This is the Canon Cult. A sure sign of a cult is the inability for members to speak negatively on any aspect whatsoever. Reading their rhetoric and propaganda - it is always positive, never a criticism. This implies Canon is perfection.

No. We all have complaints and wishes but I think it shows that people are quite happy with their Canon equipment and for a couple of better specs don't see the need to switch to Nikon. Nikon isn't perfect either. But if you should decide to switch to Nikon and Nikon fits your photography needs better than Canon, then good for you. No one here will criticize you for that. Nikon makes great cameras also.

 

[hbr]

the competition priced a far superior specced camera the same, which gives up NOTHING to the 6D and likely the 6D2

...

It's ok guys. Really, it's OK to admit that one camera in the Canon lineup doesn't live up to what it should be.

OK, I agree with you: the Nikon has better specs at the price. Now, what should I do with that?

You must immediately sell all your Canon gear and replace it all with Nikon! Canon is doomed anyway. ;D

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Canon is doomed anyway. ;D

Yeah - I heard that too!

8)

 

[hbr]

Canon is doomed anyway. ;D

Yeah - I heard that too!

8)

Then it must not be a rumor. I keep hearing this from everyone. The world is coming to an end!
LOL

 

[jeffa4444]

The Canon 6D has consistently out sold the D610 and the D750 even though on paper its an inferior camera to some.
Spec. sheets only tell part of the story, actual picture tell a whole lot more.

 

[ahsanford]

The Canon 6D has consistently out sold the D610 and the D750 even though on paper its an inferior camera to some.
Spec. sheets only tell part of the story, actual picture tell a whole lot more.

I'm curious how much of that is 6D sales dominance versus Nikon simply having two offerings where we only had one.

Though the D750 is the 'porridge is just right' blend of the D610 and D810, we never had such a purpose-built middle price point rig. Sure, the 5D3 fell into that segment in the last 12 months or so, but we didn't exactly price it that way for a very long time.

I'm guessing the 6D outsold the D610 + D750 combined, but I have no data to back that up.

- A

 

[K]

If a dual slot is a requirement for someone, they pay more for a 5-series or buy a different brand.

(emphasis above mine)


Finally, he spits it out. Someone is made to say it. Rather than argue and defend the indefensible. They say it.

This is exactly my point. For this feature, Canon expects users to pay over $3,000 in a FF body.

Nikon? $1,500.


This debunks the BS that it's to save money.


There's no justification other than the fact that Canon wants to deter pro use under $3,000, because they know, I know, we know, you know - that cards fail, and jobs and reputation can be ruined. Dual cards is important for this. But I would argue, even a hobbyist or traveler has as much need. Traveling isn't cheap and time and opportunity is limited to visit certain places. Losing once in a lifetime photos on a trip can be just as bad as botching a job.

GG

 

[Orangutan]

If a dual slot is a requirement for someone, they pay more for a 5-series or buy a different brand.

This debunks the BS that it's to save money.

Almost, see below.

There's no justification other than the fact that Canon wants to deter pro use under $3,000

I would phrase it differently: it's the fact that Canon wants to make money, and they know that people, like you, with the passion for the safety of 2 cards will pay more for a 2-card body. When I say they "know" this, I mean they've almost certainly done market research. This results in higher profit for Canon which, of course, is exactly what successful corporations do.

I think most of us agree that Canon withholds dual slot from less expensive cameras in some part to get people to buy more expensive gear. The difference is our interpretation: you see this as manipulative and nefarious; I see this as typical behavior of successful corporations. I don't like it, I don't approve of it, but it's reality in a capitalist system.

It would definitely be nefarious if Canon tweaked their firmware to make it appear that single-card was less reliable so people would buy the more expensive body. This is why the diesel emissions cheats by VW, et al were a legitimate scandal. I've shot nearly 100K frames on single-card bodies, and never had a card fail. Bear in mind that I used to work in I.T., so I'm particularly careful about buying, testing and using my cards.

K, it's no scandal -- it's just business: they make a product and set the price; then you get to decide whether to buy it. It's really that simple. Your desire for dual-slot on lower-end bodies is legitimate; your indignation is not.

By the way, you have not replied to my previous post: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32501.msg666897#msg666897

 

[K]

No one said it was a scandal or a conspiracy.

I absolutely agree that dual card slot may not be for every camera. For a very tiny DSLR, there may be no room. Or at a certain price point, it actually does become about manufacturing costs.

However, for a freaking $2,000 full frame body, to not include it is total BS. Again, $2,000 dollars. I don't care if you are a Rebel owner or a 1DX2 owner with radically different perspectives on budget, for $2,000 on a FF body, in the year 2017, there ought to be a 2nd card slot.

And I can make that statement without someone arguing by giving Canon the benefit of the doubt on the economics angle, because I have the real world example that Nikon puts this in 2 FF camera bodies for the same money or less (more often less).

 

[Orangutan]

No one said it was a scandal or a conspiracy.

I absolutely agree that dual card slot may not be for every camera. For a very tiny DSLR, there may be no room. Or at a certain price point, it actually does become about manufacturing costs.

However, for a freaking $2,000 full frame body, to not include it is total BS. Again, $2,000 dollars. I don't care if you are a Rebel owner or a 1DX2 owner with radically different perspectives on budget, for $2,000 on a FF body, in the year 2017, there ought to be a 2nd card slot.

And I can make that statement without someone arguing by giving Canon the benefit of the doubt on the economics angle, because I have the real world example that Nikon puts this in 2 FF camera bodies for the same money or less (more often less).

I'm not saying they can't "afford" to do so, I'm saying "business is business:" they do because they can, and that's just business. I agree that the extra size and $50 (or whatever) needed to add a second slot would be great for a 6D2 -- no argument there. In the end, they get to put a product on the market, and I get to decide whether to buy it, and that's all there is to that story.

 

[Loswr]

If a dual slot is a requirement for someone, they pay more for a 5-series or buy a different brand.

(emphasis above mine)

Finally, he spits it out. Someone is made to say it. Rather than argue and defend the indefensible. They say it.

The earth revolves around the sun.

The North Pole is within the Arctic Circle.

Oh, sorry...I thought we were playing State the Obvious.

It's not indefensible, no defense of Canon is required.

• Canon decided not to put a second card slot in the 6D.
• The 6D was and still remains a best-selling and very popular camera.
• You think the 6D is low value and crap.

Two of those three points are facts. The remaining point is your personal opinion. Clearly, your opinion isn't shared by the multitudes who bought a 6D. Deal with it.

 

[Mikehit]

There's no justification other than the fact that Canon wants to deter pro use under $3,000, because they know, I know, we know, you know - that cards fail, and jobs and reputation can be ruined. Dual cards is important for this. But I would argue, even a hobbyist or traveler has as much need. Traveling isn't cheap and time and opportunity is limited to visit certain places. Losing once in a lifetime photos on a trip can be just as bad as botching a job.

GG

Would I want to have dual ard slots in the 6D. Yep. Would I want 61-point f8 AF in the 6D? You betcha.

Canon make a single-slot DSLR. For the same price, Nikon include it.
Canon make more profit from the camera than Nikon does.
Canon are financially healthy. Nikon are not.

Is that justification enough?
I want my manufacturer to be financially savvy enough to be around when my camera needs fixing. I want my manfacturer's products to do what I want them to do and anything other than that is an 'nice to have'.
For me (and for obviously countless thousands of other purchasers) dual card slots are 'nice to have'.
Canon cameras do what I want them to do in a way like them to work. I am happy with Canon. You clearly are not.
Yet we both still buy Canon. Go figure.

 

[privatebydesign]

This dual card slot argument really is rediculous. There seem to be so many prepositions to it I am amazed that nobody has seen it for what it, at its core, really is, a marketing device.

Hasselblad's don't have two card slots yet are used untethered on location all the time. The assumption that two card slots is a 'pro' feature assumes pros value the feature, I have yet to meet one with as sound a multiple card stratergy as many here (Neuro!). In general they just don't care like the posters here do.

Canon multiple card slots as a feature is comparatively weak anyway, mixing card types means for true duplicate writing your camera slows to the slower slot. The presumption that dual cards is the best way to 'backup' images is also fallacious, when I shoot in the studio I tether, to do this Canon cameras are much better than Nikon, I can save a RAW file to the computer and to a card at the same time, Nikon can't.

So, if I shoot outdoors untethered I need to use Nikon for full functionality and speed, if I shoot tethered Canon give me better options. If I shoot wirelessly tethered Canon give me better options. If I want..... blah blah blah.

Two card slots are primarily a marketing device and any Canon user that needs or aspires to them need spend no more than $1,000 to get a secondhand 1DS MkIII.