An APS-C RF mount prototype is currently in the wild [CR2]

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
704
461
But, the mass market folks already have the M series to choose from if they want a Canon mirrorless.



Apple? They sell cameras that come with a free phone. As for Canon, it's not their first time around. Again, the M series is for the market you are describing, the R7 and the more costly RF lenses are for the 7D market -- those who want a high-end camera and are willing to pay for it. If Canon makes an R7 as rumored, then it will be clear that they don't see much if any overlap between the small camera market (traditionally Rebels and now M Series) and the enthusiast/semi-pro/pro market that the R7 would be targeted at. R7 buyers are likely to pair the camera with a long lens 90% of the time, as that market is interested in reach. Canon can produce a 15-85mm APS-C lens and maybe a 10-20mm APS-C and that will be all the shorter focal length lenses they need.

As to whether or not the market is big enough to justify the development and manufacturing costs, apparently it is or Canon wouldn't be making one. These customers are not particularly price sensitive.
You’re making it seem as though I’m saying something I’m not, as some others here are doing.
 
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Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
368
323
It's not about tracking. It's about taking hundreds of 45mp images and cropping every one to 10-12mp or less. In the UK it is very rare that any bird photograph not taken from a hide/blind is not going to be seriously cropped.
Different strokes for different folks. Some of us take pictures of of birds in the wild in the wild and not from a blind. In that case, tracking IS important.
 

Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,051
2,304
Low light and less noise are two distinct advantages, and when you aren’t shooting wildlife
I know it will be much higher, but I would be happy with 18mp.

That’s what I get when I throw my R5 into crop mode, which, with my 100-400L and 1.4 on, puts me at roughly 900mm equivalent @ f8..

No need for a crop body from where I’m sitting.
 

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
141
115
Orewa , New Zealand
I really don't see the point for putting an APS-C Sensor in a RF-Mount Body. I Can't imagine, that the price benefit is that huge and on the other side why not add a «crop-mode» which allows existing APS-C user to continue using their glass (reach) while still having the option to move to full frame? I think with an EVF it should also be not much of an effort to display the correct FOV directly in the viewfinder.
The point is that if you use an R5 in crop mode that is only 17mp which is less than than 7D ii‘s 20mp
Just putting the 32mp sensor from the 90D into the R6 gives almost twice the pixel density.
I would hope that Canon uses a new 32mp sensor though.
An R6 with a crop sensor should cost no more (and preferably considerably less) than the R6 which is a huge price benefit over the R5 plus it would run better with the smaller files
Building a crop sensor varient of the R6 won’t cost Canon much either and if they ditch the ibis and AA filter will hopefully be priced a bit lower too
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
141
115
Orewa , New Zealand
Canon and all the camera companies need to focus on the small but stable market for high end cameras for professionals and keen enthusiasts as the cheap Camera for the mass market Is called a Smartphone.
No new Rebels , etc will be developed.
The R7 will be aimed at enthusiasts who don’t mind paying a substantial price for their hobbie and I think it will just be a modified R6 with a crop sensor . This will be very easy for Canon to do.
Bird photography hobbiests like me will queue up for it
 

Psamathe

I'm New Here
Sep 2, 2020
16
11
Canon and all the camera companies need to focus on the small but stable market for high end cameras for professionals and keen enthusiasts as the cheap Camera for the mass market Is called a Smartphone.
No new Rebels , etc will be developed.
.....
For me there is a massive difference between a Smartphone and e.g. a Rebel. No way I can get the range of lenses nor light range, nor control, etc. using my Smartphone (and my Smartphone is a high end one). Travelling over the last few years only time I used my Smartphone was when it was heavy rain as my camera was not waterproof enough, otherwise all camera (and it's not a "high end cameras for professionals")

Ian
 

Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,535
1,827
Hamburg, Germany
For me there is a massive difference between a Smartphone and e.g. a Rebel. No way I can get the range of lenses nor light range, nor control, etc. using my Smartphone (and my Smartphone is a high end one). Travelling over the last few years only time I used my Smartphone was when it was heavy rain as my camera was not waterproof enough, otherwise all camera (and it's not a "high end cameras for professionals")

Ian
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how good or bad a smartphone is compared to even the most entry level DSLR or mirrorless ILC, as long as they aren't the same size.

It is simply true that for a majority of the people, the quality their smartphone delivers satisfies their requirements. And it is a lot more convient to carry than dedicated gear.

Not to mention that you actually have to know what your doing in order to beat a modern smartphone with an entry level Rebel kit (SL3 and 18-55 mm STM for example).

And the difference in ergonomics is really subjective. I always liked to have buttons and dial back when I used a 600D (T3i). But Man, the 9-point, single crosstype viewfinder really sucks and the ergonomics aren't that amazing, really. I mainly upgraded to the 80D for actually getting a proper grip and viewfinder, and of course get rid of that infamous 18 MP sensor.
 

Psamathe

I'm New Here
Sep 2, 2020
16
11
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how good or bad a smartphone is compared to even the most entry level DSLR or mirrorless ILC, as long as they aren't the same size.

It is simply true that for a majority of the people, the quality their smartphone delivers satisfies their requirements. And it is a lot more convient to carry than dedicated gear.

Not to mention that you actually have to know what your doing in order to beat a modern smartphone with an entry level Rebel kit (SL3 and 18-55 mm STM for example).

And the difference in ergonomics is really subjective. I always liked to have buttons and dial back when I used a 600D (T3i). But Man, the 9-point, single crosstype viewfinder really sucks and the ergonomics aren't that amazing, really. I mainly upgraded to the 80D for actually getting a proper grip and viewfinder, and of course get rid of that infamous 18 MP sensor.
I can't afford an R5 (bit of a risk travelling with one anyway). My own opinion is Canon would find a very limited market if they exclusively focused on "high end cameras for professionals". I believe there are a load of people taking photos who are medium end (and probably don't worry about discussing potential camera developments online).

I wonder if people can focus on their own needs/desires rather than the broader picture - I'm sure I do, R5 end is beyond my price point, Smartphone totally inadequate for me so will Canon abandon me? (I suspect not as I don't think I am alone in this "bracket").

Ian
 

Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,535
1,827
Hamburg, Germany
I can't afford an R5 (bit of a risk travelling with one anyway). My own opinion is Canon would find a very limited market if they exclusively focused on "high end cameras for professionals". I believe there are a load of people taking photos who are medium end (and probably don't worry about discussing potential camera developments online).

I wonder if people can focus on their own needs/desires rather than the broader picture - I'm sure I do, R5 end is beyond my price point, Smartphone totally inadequate for me so will Canon abandon me? (I suspect not as I don't think I am alone in this "bracket").

Ian
My comment was mainly about the Rebel segment of the market. I can't see there being a direct replacement for it. At least in the way I see it, being an entry to the Canon ecosystem. But there no longer is just the one.

The way I see it, the part of the market that always just wanted a decent camera and maybe one or two lenses to go with it is supposed to migrate to EF-M.

And the ones really interested in the ecosystem are supposed to jump right into FF. Canon has already demonstrated that they can make a FF body shockingly cheap with the RP. It is hard to tell what compromises they'll have to make in order to get an even cheaper RF body out - but I believe if going crop was the only way to get there, we would have seen such an offering already. They've done some magic with their most recent shutter mechanisms (R6, R5, 1DX III), making them so fast and insanely durable. I could see that being part of what allows FF costs to come down even further.

Anyway, I wasn't making the point that any but the 1000+ $ segments were being abandoned, just that Rebel as we know it probably will be.
 
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slclick

EOS R3
Dec 17, 2013
4,394
2,538
Canon is purportedly going to release more bodies and people are complaining? You guys who think the alleged R7 shouldn't be made need to have your head checked. It's when they are NOT making new things is when you bitch and whine. There, go shoot with your R5 now.
 

Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,051
2,304
The R6 doesn't really have the reach, and the R5 costs way more than a 7D2-replacing R body which would likely (hopefully) be sub-€£$2k MSRP.

I’ve seen the list of features that most people would want in a 7D2 mirrorless replacement. Most fall between the R5 and R6. Why anyone would think you would get all the features of the R5/R6 with a sensor resolution somewhere between the R5/R6 at a price below the R6 is a pipe dream IMO.

I don’t think Canon is going to undercut their flagship with a crop-body that delivers generally the same performance at less than half the cost.

You say the R5 costs “way more” than a 7D2 replacement without knowing what the specs are or the cost is. That’s funny. Likely and hopefully aren’t good management tools.

:)


When people say the R5 is out of their price range I tend to think it’s actually out of their patience range.
 

Nigel95

EOS M6 Mark II
Oct 2, 2020
59
83
When people say the R5 is out of their price range I tend to think it’s actually out of their patience range.
No there is other things in life beside cameras as well. Right now you need to jump FF to get certain specs. I would buy a R7 at the price of a R6 or maybe pay a little more to get even better specs. I just don't need FF and don't want the transition to those expensive FF glass. A R6 body with 3 nice FF lenses is just too expensive for me as a hobbyist. The R7 if it has specs like the R6 is what I have been waiting for a long time. It covers my needs and is in my situation still doable in terms of costs.
 

Sharlin

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 26, 2015
1,356
1,214
Turku, Finland
I’ve seen the list of features that most people would want in a 7D2 mirrorless replacement. Most fall between the R5 and R6. Why anyone would think you would get all the features of the R5/R6 with a sensor resolution somewhere between the R5/R6 at a price below the R6 is a pipe dream IMO.

I don’t think Canon is going to undercut their flagship with a crop-body that delivers generally the same performance at less than half the cost.

You mean just like the 7D2 didn't deliver the features of the 5D3 at almost exactly half the MSRP back in 2014? Oh wait, it did exactly that, except it also came with DPAF, 70% faster fps, deeper buffer, and GPS!
 

riker

5D4
Jan 19, 2015
103
46
riker.hu
Since the point of smaller sensors is to have smaller and lighter cameras and lenses, I’m not sure what the point is to putting an APS-C sensor in a FF body.

Yep that's just what I'm saying a bit differently. A solution would be the introduction of RF-S lenses but. Even in this case I'm pessimistic, so many years of EF-S lenses and other than the exception of a few good lenses the selection was never great. Most people ended up using a EF lenses on APS-C bodies which is far from ideal. No fixed/high aperture lenses, no 70-200/4, nothing. Sad story.

(Although I have to add, a new APS-C RF body will likely be smaller than current FF bodies so it will not be an APS-C sensor in FF body.)
 

Psamathe

I'm New Here
Sep 2, 2020
16
11
...
When people say the R5 is out of their price range I tend to think it’s actually out of their patience range.
The way my local camera store works is when you want a camera, you give them money (the "cost" or "price" and they give you the camera. Not got enough money means it don't work and they don't give you the camera.

I'd assumed most camera stores worked in a similar manner so please do tell me where me giving them money isn't required and I'll be an R5 owner tomorrow.

Ian
 
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