An APS-C RF mount prototype is currently in the wild [CR2]

researcher

I'm New Here
May 30, 2015
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I hope this new RF body comes with native full HD webcam capacity - one of those features the Pandemic of 2020 reminded many of us we'd like to have. I assume as a crop-sensor body, I will be able to use my EF-S lenses with it. Looking forward to seeing what emerges.
 

Bert63

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The way my local camera store works is when you want a camera, you give them money (the "cost" or "price" and they give you the camera. Not got enough money means it don't work and they don't give you the camera.

I'd assumed most camera stores worked in a similar manner so please do tell me where me giving them money isn't required and I'll be an R5 owner tomorrow.

Ian


If someone can save up for XXX (let’s say R6) camera, that also means that if the save longer then they can get XXX (let’s say R5) camera too - the difference is they don’t want to wait the extra time.

When you’re DONE saving you head to the store. The difference is how long you are willing to save.
 

Bert63

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I take it you are either walking everywhere or already exercised enough patience and are now driving a Bugatti then?

My Bugatti is shaped like a camper and has a Winnebago badge on it.

I’ve done the fast cars thing already. I’m too old.
 
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Bert63

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You mean just like the 7D2 didn't deliver the features of the 5D3 at almost exactly half the MSRP back in 2014? Oh wait, it did exactly that, except it also came with DPAF, 70% faster fps, deeper buffer, and GPS!

The HUGE difference being that you already have the R6 sitting practically right there with all the same features as the R5 except for a niggle here or there.

That situation didn’t exist in 2014, did it?

That’s what I mean.
 
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Bert63

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No there is other things in life beside cameras as well. Right now you need to jump FF to get certain specs. I would buy a R7 at the price of a R6 or maybe pay a little more to get even better specs. I just don't need FF and don't want the transition to those expensive FF glass. A R6 body with 3 nice FF lenses is just too expensive for me as a hobbyist. The R7 if it has specs like the R6 is what I have been waiting for a long time. It covers my needs and is in my situation still doable in terms of costs.


I don’t disagree, I just don’t see them undercutting the R6 by a substantial amount if the features people want are included. Time will tell. I hope to be surprised.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
141
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Orewa , New Zealand
I’ve seen the list of features that most people would want in a 7D2 mirrorless replacement. Most fall between the R5 and R6. Why anyone would think you would get all the features of the R5/R6 with a sensor resolution somewhere between the R5/R6 at a price below the R6 is a pipe dream IMO.

I don’t think Canon is going to undercut their flagship with a crop-body that delivers generally the same performance at less than half the cost.

You say the R5 costs “way more” than a 7D2 replacement without knowing what the specs are or the cost is. That’s funny. Likely and hopefully aren’t good management tools.

:)


When people say the R5 is out of their price range I tend to think it’s actually out of their patience range.
If Canon just swapped out the FF sensor for a 32mp crop sensor in an R6 and called it an R7 why would it cost more than the R6 ?
Few other things I'd like to see:
No ibis
No AA filter
Focus stacking in camera (this is just a software change to what's in R5 and R6)

If anything I expect the R7 would be priced slightly cheaper than the R6
 
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Aussie shooter

www.facebook.com/BrettGuyPhotography/
Dec 6, 2016
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R5/R6 covered this well.
R6=not enough pixel density. R5=too much money. An R7 will need the pixel density of at least the R5(preferably more), the AF of the R5 and 6, the ergonomics of an R5/6, build quality of the R6 and all wrapped up in the price of an R6.
 
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Nigel95

EOS M6 Mark II
Oct 2, 2020
59
83
Few other things I'd like to see:
No ibis
No AA filter
I'm not sure with video getting more popular now a days if that is a wise move for Canon. IBIS is also a nice feature to have for static subjects photography. For wildlife photography I understand this options aren't necessary for you. Would you still buy it with this features included? If yes then why would Canon remove this if it can target a bigger audience with this camera.

I would be dissapointed to see no IBIS if it is priced similarly like the R6. Even if it is cheaper I would rather pay more and have this features included.
 

Psamathe

I'm New Here
Sep 2, 2020
16
11
R6=not enough pixel density. R5=too much money. An R7 will need the pixel density of at least the R5(preferably more), the AF of the R5 and 6, the ergonomics of an R5/6, build quality of the R6 and all wrapped up in the price of an R6.
I agree. R6 would have been a good compromise for me except for the pixels.
 
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Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
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Mar 25, 2011
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A Crop sensor body with a RF mount does not need to be as large as a FF body. Canon can make the body smaller. The size of the body is greatly influenced by the target market. The "M", according to Canon managers was originally developed to fit the hand of a typical Japanese woman. That's why its that size. Obviously, there are constraints, but many buyers feel more comfortable with a larger body, it all depends on how comfortable it is to hold and what value they place on a small size. Some features like dual card slots physically take more space. Popup flashes take space, EVF's take space, IBIS takes space. A smaller IBIS unit can be designed for crop sensors, I'd expect that a "M" sized camera with the larger RF mount is possible. IBIS might make it deeper.

If designers are given the size of the "M" as a target, they can do it.
 

Joules

doom
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Jul 16, 2017
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A Crop sensor body with a RF mount does not need to be as large as a FF body. Canon can make the body smaller.
Yes. But without small lenses, there is very little point in minimizing the body size.

And if producing lenses as small as possible is the goal, the narrower EF-M mount is a better option for reaching it.

In the RF mount, a crop body makes more sense near the high end, where the greater FPS and pixel density achievable in a smaller sensor format (at a given cost) can be utilized to create a value that is unavailable in FF bodies.

In that second scenario, it is also not required to produce dedicated, small, slow crop lenses because speed and Pixel density are mainly desired by users operating at long focal lengths (which do not benefit from smaller image circles as far as I know).
 
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Bert63

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If Canon just swapped out the FF sensor for a 32mp crop sensor in an R6 and called it an R7 why would it cost more than the R6 ?
Few other things I'd like to see:
No ibis
No AA filter
Focus stacking in camera (this is just a software change to what's in R5 and R6)

If anything I expect the R7 would be priced slightly cheaper than the R6


That's the only question I have - they need to be careful with the price. I think it needs to be significantly cheaper than the R6 and that means cutting features. It's a balance.

With the 5D3 and R7 caparison made earlier, there was no R6 sitting in the middle of the stew..
 
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Bert63

What’s in da box?
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Dec 3, 2017
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R6=not enough pixel density. R5=too much money. An R7 will need the pixel density of at least the R5(preferably more), the AF of the R5 and 6, the ergonomics of an R5/6, build quality of the R6 and all wrapped up in the price of an R6.

Don't disagree with any of that really - where I differ is what it will cost..

I think there is a spot for this camera (and a need for dedicated crop-body shooters) but with the features everyone wants (like you list, and like I have listed) I'm dubious that this will be a "bargain" like the 7D2 was.

When I moved from my 7D2 to the 5D4 I never looked back at the 7D2 - I never missed it, and not once when I was out birding did I think "boy I wish I had my 7D2..."

In fact, the opposite has been true ever since.

Then again, I consider myself to be an average-to-below-average bird/wildlife shooter so maybe there is something I'm missing. With my 100-400L II and 1.4X I seem to do okay.
 
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Nigel95

EOS M6 Mark II
Oct 2, 2020
59
83
If someone can save up for XXX (let’s say R6) camera, that also means that if the save longer then they can get XXX (let’s say R5) camera too - the difference is they don’t want to wait the extra time.

When you’re DONE saving you head to the store. The difference is how long you are willing to save.
What if R6 price is already borderline of what is acceptable for someones budget? What if someone has to save for other things as well like buying a house? A car? The R5 seems like a great camera but it's out of my league. I assume for a lot of hobbyists it's out of their league as well. Expensive toys (for a hobbyist) .. Not to mention the accessoires that also add up costs like CFexpress cards + transition to FF glass if you want a R7 actually. You assume one only has to buy cameras and nothing else. What about the diminishing returns? The R7 (if R6 APSC) will do the job for me personally why would I spend so much more money for a R5 if I also have other priorities in life? I doubt my audience will see the difference anyways online. Will I see it? Maybe, do I want to pay 3x + more for that? Nope
 

Czardoom

EOS 90D
Jan 27, 2020
179
398
If someone can save up for XXX (let’s say R6) camera, that also means that if the save longer then they can get XXX (let’s say R5) camera too - the difference is they don’t want to wait the extra time.

When you’re DONE saving you head to the store. The difference is how long you are willing to save.

Your assumption that people can save money at a consistent, constant rate is so absurd that it almost needs no comment. I don't think that is the reality for the vast majority of people. I think most folks have no savings to speak of. Glad you have had financial security. Apparently you have no idea what the real world is like for most people.
 
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Bert63

What’s in da box?
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Your assumption that people can save money at a consistent, constant rate is so absurd that it almost needs no comment. I don't think that is the reality for the vast majority of people. I think most folks have no savings to speak of. Apparently you have no idea what the real world is like for most people.

Yeah. I have no idea what the real world is like for most people.... :rolleyes:

'Your assumption that people can save money at a consistent, constant rate is so absurd that it almost needs no comment.'

Show me the post where I made this assertion or assumption. I'll wait here.

'I don't think that is the reality for the vast majority of people.'

Neither do I and never said otherwise.

'I think most folks have no savings to speak of.'

Then I would question whether they should be buying a camera at all, much less one like the ones we're discussing in this thread...

'Glad you have had financial security.'

Me too. It only took about 50 years constantly saving tiny little bits at a time to get here. It damn sure didn't come overnight and it didn't happen by accident.

Get over yourself.
 

Bert63

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Dec 3, 2017
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What if R6 price is already borderline of what is acceptable for someones budget?

I haven't told anyone to buy anything.

No one is saying you have to buy an R5. No one is saying you have to buy anything. I made a comment in relation to all the people saying:

"I really want an R5 but it's out of my price range"

since the R6/R5 launched. THEY said they wanted an R5, not me.

In many cases people just don't want to wait the extra time it would take to buy what they really want.

I don't know where you're getting this 3X figure from but okay. Transition to FF glass? From what I'm reading in this thread most people would be looking at this as an upgrade and will likely already have their birding or sports lens in hand. Is there a crop-body birding lens I'm not aware of? What FF glass would they need? I don't see people rushing out to buy a fast crop-body for landscapes or portraits, do you?

This body likely wouldn't need CFE and if so, a 256GB CFE is chump change when buying a $2500 camera...
 
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Nigel95

EOS M6 Mark II
Oct 2, 2020
59
83
I don't know where you're getting this 3X figure from but okay.
R5 will be like twice as expensive or so compared to R7? Idk

Going for R5 also means I want cf express card so I can use all the features. Have to replace my canon 10-18mm uwa for Canon 16 35 f4, replace my sigma 18 35 1.8 for a 24-70 2.8. This will add up quickly. My canon 60mm could be cheaply replaced for the Canon 100mm macro non L. I like to stay away from this lens transition with a FF body.
 
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