An APS-C RF mount prototype is currently in the wild [CR2]

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
141
117
Orewa , New Zealand
Exactly. And not just more affordable, but also smaller and lighter. I have been looking for some time for a telephoto lens for my R kit. Anyhting over 300mm is either too expensive or too heavy (or both). And 300mm offers not particular advantage to lenses I have in my M4/3rds system. I have considered various 100-400mm lenses, the new RF 100-500, and some Sigma alternatives. They are all too expensive or too heavy (or both). What I will buy is an EF 70-300mm lens paired with a Crop camera, giving me the more reach then the 400mm lenses in a smaller and less heavy lens.
I have an EF400 f/5.6 which is cheap (especially 2nd hand) and light and a fantastic lens which would work great with an R camera
I prefer my new EF100-400 ii though even though it's a bit heavier as it's so versatile and I can use for macro as well
 
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Lucas Tingley

Canon EOS RP
Nov 27, 2020
101
55
I have an EF400 f/5.6 which is cheap (especially 2nd hand) and light and a fantastic lens which would work great with an R camera
I prefer my new EF100-400 ii though even though it's a bit heavier as it's so versatile and I can use for macro as well
like "i get 100 buck a month because i am a freshmen in high school" cheap
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
141
117
Orewa , New Zealand
like i get 500 buck a month because i am a freshmen i high school cheap
Buy a 7D ii and EF 400 f/5.6 second hand, cheaper than new R7 body and RF800 . Here’s a shot I took with my 7Dii and EF400 f/5.6
8C5D4C7F-7F19-4057-B79A-EA9AB951B564.jpeg
 
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padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,153
764
Speaking of the f/11 DO lenses, there is that DPAF area limitation on FF, but it will be much closer to a full coverage on a crop sensor (but it is questionable if these lenses can handle even higher pixel density)

I guess trimming the R5 sensor down to 17.3 megapixels wouldn't be enough, so it will be something different, I guess an updated version of the 32 megapixel sensor with 4k60p capability.
 
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Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,536
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Hamburg, Germany
When you say: “get the most out of”, then you’re saying the body with the highest IQ. Do you think that will be an APS-C body?

traditionally, APS-C has NEVER been at the high end, once FF came out. It’s a compromise product category, which as I said earlier, is why you don’t find high end lenses specifically made for it by the major camera manufacturers.
All I'm saying is this: the chance that Canon will offer 90 MP 20 FPS mechanical in the high resolution R (R5s) at a equal or lower price than the R5 is 0 %.

There is however a decent chance that this rumored APS-C RF body is meant to appeal to the 7D market segment by providing the highest available pixel density (90 MP FF, 32 MP APS-C) and mechanical speed (20 FPS, found in the 1DX III). And as APS-C has traditionally been priced below the 5 series, there is also a good chance this would cost less than the R5.

Mind you, we are talking a specialized camera here. No lenses made only for APS-C, no focus on cheap or small and light. Simply make it as optimized for focal length restrained wildlife as possible.
 

swkitt

EOS M50
Dec 8, 2015
29
16
I guess trimming the R5 sensor down to 17.3 megapixels wouldn't be enough, so it will be something different, I guess an updated version of the 32 megapixel sensor with 4k60p capability.

I just tried the R5 on 1,6x mode and the results are great, you get the same IQ as the R5 and the longer focals advantage, and you get 17MP files that are enough for most people. They will probably get it up to 20MP just because it's a psychologic number people want, but I'm not afraid of the IQ of such a sensor. Wildlife and sports enthusiasts will buy full cargos of those cameras ! And hopefully it will also increase the volumes and allow Canon to reduce prices on some categories of lenses to match it.
 

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
141
117
Orewa , New Zealand
All I'm saying is this: the chance that Canon will offer 90 MP 20 FPS mechanical in the high resolution R (R5s) at a equal or lower price than the R5 is 0 %.

There is however a decent chance that this rumored APS-C RF body is meant to appeal to the 7D market segment by providing the highest available pixel density (90 MP FF, 32 MP APS-C) and mechanical speed (20 FPS, found in the 1DX III). And as APS-C has traditionally been priced below the 5 series, there is also a good chance this would cost less than the R5.

Mind you, we are talking a specialized camera here. No lenses made only for APS-C, no focus on cheap or small and light. Simply make it as optimized for focal length restrained wildlife as possible.
If Canon just adds the best aps-c sensor they can make to the R6 body and ditches ibis and an AA filter then you have an ideal replacement to the 7Dii with minimal development cost and it’ll sell well.
Hoping it’s a bit cheaper than the R6 but I will buy it anyway if it’s the same price
 
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Joules

doom
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Jul 16, 2017
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After the R7 is released what makes you think the Rebel line won't convert to mirrorless as well?
Lack of APS-C lenses (slower, cheaper, lighter, less IQ) in the RF mount probably. And the fact that splitting the low to mid end APS-C market between the EF-M and RF mount sounds like a poor choice, given how well the EF-M system does what it does (be small and sell well) and how Canon have positioned RF as all about quality rather than compactness or affordability so far.
 
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Joules

doom
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Jul 16, 2017
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... then you have an ideal replacement to the 7Dii with minimal development cost and it’ll sell well.
That's really the interesting bit. Which consumers is this aimed at. An R6 with only a crop sensor sounds more like a successor to the 90D to me (Edit: realize you want to also remove the IBIS, so it wouldn't even be a proper upgrade for the 90D), rather than a true 7 series. But it may be possible that the market that's really looking for the qualities of former 7 series bodies is just to small to support such a product nowdays, and so they'll have to buckle up for a R5s for reach, R1 for speed or R5 for a mix of both.
 
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Joules

doom
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Jul 16, 2017
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Sure. But there is a lot of debate on if cropping hurts the image more than a crop sensor. I personally do not have much clarity on this.
If you want more clarity, check out my thread about just that topic: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/equivalency-now-with-pictures.39787/
In a nutshell, cropping an FF image to same FoV as a crop sensor, and just taking that image with a crop sensor in the first place is exactly the same thing, provided all other variables (sensor quality, physical distance to subject, lens in use, aperture, ISO, shutter speed, ...) are also exactly the same.

That's not what reach is about though. It is not about people not wanting to crop their images - it is about putting more pixels on the subject and therefore being able to display that subject larger. You can get that by physically enlarging the image more, using a longer lens. But past a certain point, that get's really expensive and heavy. The other way to gain more reach is using a higher pixel density, so pixels per sensor area. The highest Canon offers here currently is the 32.5 MP sensor found in the 90D and M6 II. Scaled up to FF area, that results in about 90 MP. And we have a good rumor indicating that will indeed be the resolution of the R5s (the high res RF body). But if that's the only option to get this kind of reach in the RF realm, it means you essentially have to pay a hefty premium over the other options to get that reach.

Previously there was the 7D II and 5Ds, which both had the same pixel density, with one offering all the advantages that come with FF, but at the cost of speed, and the other offering the same reach, but for a lower cost and with more speed. The camera in this rumor could well be hinting at a similar dynamic existing in the RF ecosystem in the future.
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,153
764
If Canon just adds the best aps-c sensor they can make to the R6 body and ditches ibis and an AA filter then you have an ideal replacement to the 7Dii with minimal development cost and it’ll sell well.
Hoping it’s a bit cheaper than the R6 but I will buy it anyway if it’s the same price
They are not going to ditch the AA filter, unless it is specifically made for resolution, like an R5s
It would introduce more problems for video which they can't just ignore, if it stays at 32.5MP then it will remain line-skipped but maybe up to 4k60p.
 

Aussie shooter

www.facebook.com/BrettGuyPhotography/
Dec 6, 2016
1,005
1,351
Is that what the point is? Funny, all these years I've been using a 7Dii to get a higher pixel density under a small central subject with a long tele. Silly me.
Not to mention the build quality of a 1d series camera, the AF of a 1 d series camera and the ergonomics ofa 5d series camera all wrapped up in the price of a 6d series camera
 

bbasiaga

Canon Shooter
Nov 15, 2011
419
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USA
I just tried the R5 on 1,6x mode and the results are great, you get the same IQ as the R5 and the longer focals advantage, and you get 17MP files that are enough for most people. They will probably get it up to 20MP just because it's a psychologic number people want, but I'm not afraid of the IQ of such a sensor. Wildlife and sports enthusiasts will buy full cargos of those cameras ! And hopefully it will also increase the volumes and allow Canon to reduce prices on some categories of lenses to match it.
I don't think you are getting any 'reach' though. In fact, I'm nearly sure. The lens projects the same image circle, regardless of what mode you are shooting in. Crop mode just takes an APSc sized section out of the middle of it. So you are just getting the same image, at the same apparent magnification, just with the outer 28mp already cropped off for you.

I don't believe it is resampling the FF image down to a smaller file. Though I could be wrong. The result would be the same as if you had taken the same image in FF mode, and just cropped it yourself. You could test this by setting up on a tripod, and taking the same image twice - once in crop and once in FF mode. Then display those images both at 300ppi. Your subject should be the same size in both images, just with less around it in the crop mode photo.
 
Dec 8, 2020
2
4
As of today there is just one crop RF lens at least (Laowa 9mm T/2.9 Cine). Yes, it's fully manual and covers Super35 sensor. And it was made for new RF-mount cinema cams in the first place. But it's very interesting, what is the chance that R7 will have super35 size sensor?
 
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