Analyzing where Canon lags behind in the market - Share your thoughts

[9VIII]

Where does Canon fall behind the competition?

Can we make a list of that, that's completely objective and is neither fanboyish nor Sony-is-king-ish?

This list I want to make is comprehensive, meaning starts from the lowest end up to the highest end. And is divided into two sections, Bodies and Lenses.

Only where the current Canon models are inferior to an existing competitor.

I'll start with the very low end failure:

-Canon's cheapest DSLR is very poorly featured compared to Nikon's and Sony's and practically everything else.

It's the 1300D. Nikon makes a MUCH more compelling camera to draw the first SLR buyer. Their Nikon D3400 has:

-24mp class leading sensor vs the old 550D 18mp sensor with immensely lower image quality.

-Little known fact, the 24mp sensor in the D3400 up to D7200 produces very sharp HD video with no aliasing and moire. While the 1300D has moire and aliasing and softness.

-Snapbridge blutooth connectivity is very fast and very appealing to today's teen/social media oriented market.

-The 1300D has the lowest screen resolution in the current world of SLRs.

-The 1300D comes with the old 18-55mm non-STM lens while the Nikon comes with the newest STM like model.

-The 1300D is 3fps vs 5fps

-Aside from poor video, tops at 1080p 30p while d3400 does sharp 1080p 60p.

-Much lower end AF system

This camera model just needs to be erased or upgraded fast. Cann doesn't realize it's the entry point of the customer, and now on the shelf there's a much superior nikon.

1- So Canon's first fail is in their first Body, the T6/1300D.

The AF systems are virtually identical, they both only have 1 cross type AF point, and I can track birds quite well with the center point on the 1100D.

Canon has NFC where Nikon has Bluetooth, they're comparable enough.

Would I love to have Nikon's 24MP sensor? Sure, but not over the availability of amazing lenses like the 55-250IS STM and very good and insanely inexpensive Nifty Fifty (and the 40mm Pancake, and the 24mm Pancake).
Canon's low end body/lens possibilities are much more compelling than anything from Nikon.
(and lets not forget that Nikon is still selling lenses that don't have an electronic focus motor and are incompatible with low end bodies.)

After owning the 1100D for four years I can say that outside of the lack of wi-fi, I can't find any significant omissions with the camera.
(I would love a tilty screen, but when you can find it for under $400 nothing at that price point has that.)

When I had a 5D2 it was amazing how much similarity there was between the two cameras, so much so that I kept the T3 over the 5D2.

 

[Refurb7]

Canon die-hard to the bone. Will never leave home without my 5dmk3 8)

I hear you. Analyzing the market seems like a colossal waste of time when you have a camera as good as that.

 

[scyrene]

Re: Analyzing where Canon lags behind in the market

...
Actually, it sounds like the thread is all about "Maximilian bitches about Canon products not beating the competition's products in every possible way at any and all times".

Antono, if your post was meant in the same - sarcastic - way as mine about the others complaining about Canon I must admit that I didn't get your humor. Sorry. :-[

If you didn't get mine (humor), I must apologize. Excuse me!

No need to apologise. You flagged the humour very clearly. You can't be held responsible for people missing it even then.

 

[scyrene]

Boy, was that as much work as it appears. Good presentation.

Just watch the news and consider how fortunate we are to be able to debate the shortcomings in this fancy gear we all have rather than having to worry if we'll be bombed tonight.

I'd like to see a thread where every aspect of the DSLR shortcomings is clearly delineated by illustrative photos but alas I suspect that many posters would have little to show. Armchair quarterbacks? Come on folk, post your photos that illustrate that canon technology is poor, incapable of delivering a good photo.

I think the many threads of photos being posted daily clearly show otherwise.

Jack

OK..... here are three examples of how poor Canon Cameras are.

In the first image, it is obvious that the Canon camera has insufficient dynamic range to capture the sun and the shadows on the back of the tree, and the automatic exposure setting just picked the centre and did not pick an artistic setting....

In the second picture, despite being at sunset and shooting at a 30th of a second, when this heron unexpectedly flew past, the AF system was unable to keep the bird in perfect focus.

The third picture is also an AF problem. Despite the subject being inside the minimum focus distance of the lens, the camera refused to lock on the rodent and instead choose the decking behind it...

Seriously though? Bad pictures? Any camera can take bad pictures.... Any photographer can take bad pictures... Don't make me bring out my iPhone

Is the bird out of focus or just motion blurred? Actually I guess it's quite hard to tell by that point

 

[Don Haines]

Boy, was that as much work as it appears. Good presentation.

Just watch the news and consider how fortunate we are to be able to debate the shortcomings in this fancy gear we all have rather than having to worry if we'll be bombed tonight.

I'd like to see a thread where every aspect of the DSLR shortcomings is clearly delineated by illustrative photos but alas I suspect that many posters would have little to show. Armchair quarterbacks? Come on folk, post your photos that illustrate that canon technology is poor, incapable of delivering a good photo.

I think the many threads of photos being posted daily clearly show otherwise.

Jack

OK..... here are three examples of how poor Canon Cameras are.

In the first image, it is obvious that the Canon camera has insufficient dynamic range to capture the sun and the shadows on the back of the tree, and the automatic exposure setting just picked the centre and did not pick an artistic setting....

In the second picture, despite being at sunset and shooting at a 30th of a second, when this heron unexpectedly flew past, the AF system was unable to keep the bird in perfect focus.

The third picture is also an AF problem. Despite the subject being inside the minimum focus distance of the lens, the camera refused to lock on the rodent and instead choose the decking behind it...

Seriously though? Bad pictures? Any camera can take bad pictures.... Any photographer can take bad pictures... Don't make me bring out my iPhone

Is the bird out of focus or just motion blurred? Actually I guess it's quite hard to tell by that point

I believe it is both.... But when it comes to taking bad pictures, it really helps to have the right (wrong?) gear. Full moon as shot with iPhone

 

[Rocky]

[q uote autho r=Mikehit link=topic=30940.msg627342#msg627342 date=1475174976]

I'm still not sure that analogy holds.
Up to the 1990s anyone who only had a passing interest in photography had no camera at all. In the 2000s the cost of cameras plummeted and many people bought them because they could, even though the camera stayed at home most of the time after the novelty wore off because it was inconvenient to lug them around everywhere - it was this market that led to the rapid inflation in camera ownership. Then came the smartphone and the smartphone filled the niche they wanted - so that in the 1990s I referred to group have gone from no camera to smartphones and the last 15 years or so has been almost an artificial blip forced by lack of choice.
Many of the people who would have owned cameras in the 1990s have today also embraced the iphone and they use it when they would otherwise not bother carrying a camera anyway and this is no threat to Canon in the main because they are using something that Canon cannot compete against - and nor does mirrorless of any description.

So IMO it is a distraction to look on that market as an indicator as to whether Canon (or any other brand) is doing the right thing within their market sector.
[/quote]
I wonder how many people that bought the smart phone in the 1990 have never own a camera. Camera has been around since 1930. Pocket able camera has ben around since 1960.

 

[Maximilian]

Re: Analyzing where Canon lags behind in the market

...
I believe it is both.... But when it comes to taking bad pictures, it really helps to have the right (wrong?) gear. Full moon as shot with iPhone

Don, that was exactly the right gear for this situation. Because what you see here is not the full moon but the globular cluster M80 right beside the full moon.
Only the iPhone with its high DR and wonderful digital x1.000.000 zoom could isolate this one from the bright light of the moon.
(I love the auto star tracker motive mode )
Isn't it brilliant?


PS.: Due to this difficult shooting conditions the resolution wasn't good enough anymore to display the stars individually in the center of the globular cluster.

 

[takesome1]

[q uote autho r=Mikehit link=topic=30940.msg627342#msg627342 date=1475174976]

I'm still not sure that analogy holds.
Up to the 1990s anyone who only had a passing interest in photography had no camera at all. In the 2000s the cost of cameras plummeted and many people bought them because they could, even though the camera stayed at home most of the time after the novelty wore off because it was inconvenient to lug them around everywhere - it was this market that led to the rapid inflation in camera ownership. Then came the smartphone and the smartphone filled the niche they wanted - so that in the 1990s I referred to group have gone from no camera to smartphones and the last 15 years or so has been almost an artificial blip forced by lack of choice.
Many of the people who would have owned cameras in the 1990s have today also embraced the iphone and they use it when they would otherwise not bother carrying a camera anyway and this is no threat to Canon in the main because they are using something that Canon cannot compete against - and nor does mirrorless of any description.

So IMO it is a distraction to look on that market as an indicator as to whether Canon (or any other brand) is doing the right thing within their market sector.

I wonder how many people that bought the smart phone in the 1990 have never own a camera. Camera has been around since 1930. Pocket able camera has ben around since 1960.
[/quote]

I had a bag phone in 1990 and carried a 35mm camera everywhere I went.
How all that relates to each other and the boom of digital cameras after 2000, it probably doesn't. Although I did buy a Nokia because of its camera ability in 2005 (or there about) and was very disappointed.
By today's standards a 35mm film camera was very cheap in 1990. You could buy a 35mm camera and it would last for years, it didn't need to be updated. It was expensive to shoot and learn to shoot a slr because of film development.

Neuro was correct, the iPhone doesn't matter to the ILC market in the context of this thread.

In the camera market in general it does, and who is to say if the next iPhone will come with an interchangeable lens option.

 

[neuroanatomist]

In the camera market in general it does, and who is to say if the next iPhone will come with an interchangeable lens option.

The iPhone 7+ took the approach of adding a second camera with a longer lens.

 

[Josh Denver]

2- 50mm and 85mm lenses.

Canon were always said to be bought for their superior lenses but now, two of the most important key lenses for photography are surpassed by other manufacturers. Leaving the Canon 50mm f/1.4 and f/1.2 L two over-priced and low quality lenses. (This is in relation to Sigma ART lenses and Sony Batis lenses, etc)

This claim is wrong for three reasons:

1. The uber 50mm f/1.4s (Sigma Art, Zeiss Otus, Sigma 58mm f/1.4G) are not in the same class as the EF 50mm f/1.4 and f/1.2

The EF 50mm f/1.4 is a $350 lens. The uber 50mm f/1.4s are in the $1000-$1500 bracket.

The EF 50mm f/1.2 is a portraiture lens. The uber 50mm f/1.4s are sharpness lenses.

Your comparison is apples to oranges. The ubers are in a new spot, and Canon hasn't made a lens in that spot yet.

2. Canon has plenty of lenses the competitors haven't answered yet, e.g. MP-E 65mm 5x macro lens, TS-E 17mm, and EF 11-24mm.

Its fun saying "canon is behind is this lens", and forget that "the competitors are behind on this lens".

3. You're looking at how things are *now*.

Canon has upgraded a lot of lenses in recent years, e.g. the 24mm-28mm-35mm primes, the 24-105mm kit, the super-teles, etc.

Wait a year, see whether Canon catches up with those two lenses. You can't? Buy Nikon, and remember it works both ways - the EF 11-24mm f/4 is ~18 months old, the TS-E 17mm is 7 years oaz/quote]

There's a reason why the topic is not called ''where does canon crush the competition?''. This topic is just for the lagging points.

It seems this is so hard to understand to all but 1-2 posters in 8 pages, for the life of me can't realize why. It clearly says ''Lags''.

Okay well let me make you happy first in order to get this out of the way:

Where Canon leaps the competition:

1- F/1.2 lenses. This gives a DOF advantage.
2- F/2, fastest AF 135mm lens in the world
3- Best 35mm lens in existence,
4- Best Telephoto line up, available for cheap too!
5- Absolutely optically stunning DIRT CHEAP Canon EF STM lenses like the 10-18mm, 55-250mm, 50mm STM, no rival offers anything remotely close in quality/value ratio.
6- Widest lens in the world 11-24mm
7- Basically best colours, maybe fuji has edge
8- Basically Cheapest and most accessible fully rugged FF DSLR, Canon 6D. With exceptional images and ergononics and speed.
9- Best sports camera in the world
10- Only DSLR/MILC shooting 4K 60p
11- Canon Log (C-LOG) trumps all other cinema gammas for easily great images,
12- The ONLY camera in the world thar can do video autofocus. DPAF. A technological breakthrough that if gone up the chain would replace the job of a full focus puller work with touching a screen,
13- (Subjective) Best operating system of all.
14- The availability of Magic Lantern features (A LOT) in the cheapest models.
15- Only DSLR/MILC To shoot 1080p 14bit RAW.
16- Best weather sealed and built qualiru bodies per latest teardowns. Can survive fire while others die from middle eastren air,
17- you say, there's still a lot....


Now that we've warmed up to the idea Canon is absolutely fantastic: where do they currently lack?

 

[Antono Refa]

2- 50mm and 85mm lenses.

Canon were always said to be bought for their superior lenses but now, two of the most important key lenses for photography are surpassed by other manufacturers. Leaving the Canon 50mm f/1.4 and f/1.2 L two over-priced and low quality lenses. (This is in relation to Sigma ART lenses and Sony Batis lenses, etc)

This claim is wrong for three reasons:

1. The uber 50mm f/1.4s (Sigma Art, Zeiss Otus, Sigma 58mm f/1.4G) are not in the same class as the EF 50mm f/1.4 and f/1.2

The EF 50mm f/1.4 is a $350 lens. The uber 50mm f/1.4s are in the $1000-$1500 bracket.

The EF 50mm f/1.2 is a portraiture lens. The uber 50mm f/1.4s are sharpness lenses.

Your comparison is apples to oranges. The ubers are in a new spot, and Canon hasn't made a lens in that spot yet.

2. Canon has plenty of lenses the competitors haven't answered yet, e.g. MP-E 65mm 5x macro lens, TS-E 17mm, and EF 11-24mm.

Its fun saying "canon is behind is this lens", and forget that "the competitors are behind on this lens".

3. You're looking at how things are *now*.

Canon has upgraded a lot of lenses in recent years, e.g. the 24mm-28mm-35mm primes, the 24-105mm kit, the super-teles, etc.

Wait a year, see whether Canon catches up with those two lenses. You can't? Buy Nikon, and remember it works both ways - the EF 11-24mm f/4 is ~18 months old, the TS-E 17mm is 7 years old

There's a reason why the topic is not called ''where does canon crush the competition?''. This topic is just for the lagging points.

It seems this is so hard to understand to all but 1-2 posters in 8 pages, for the life of me can't realize why. It clearly says ''Lags''.

Okay well let me make you happy first in order to get this out of the way:

You still miss the point. You've got the full list of things in which canon lags behind in the competition in your first post, which must have made you very happy, and got them out of the way. Since then, we're discussing other stuff.