anyone else notice that a new rebel has yet to be announced?

[dgatwood]

food for thought from another topic ---http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21908.msg417183;topicseen#new --- only 5% of the buying public buys more than 1 lens apparently. That leaves 95% with a kit lens. What to venture a bet as to what percentage of that 95% never even take a peek at their manual? What percentage of that 95% even knows what an AF point is? LOL....that is why AFMA won't be in a rebel! How many users are in P mode would end up messing with their AFMA because they have blurry shots - because they don't know their shooting at a slow SS? Or because the AF is locking on to other things (all point active!!!). I would love to have more faith in humanity that this wouldn't happen, but, time and time again I get questions from the first time DSLR user and yup, theynever even opened the manual, hell they don't know where it is and ----yeah they look at me like I'm Satan for asking....I paid $$$$ for this and it should just work. UGGGGGG....no no no no no....AFMA just has no place in the rebel line....

Actually, I'd go the opposite direction. The Rebel bodies should have their kit lenses pre-AFMAed as part of the initial burn-in and packing process. That way, non-advanced users won't ever even have to think about it.

and most of those people shoot in "green box" mode.... do you really want them to be doing a complex and precise calibration sequence on a tool that they do not know how to use? AFMA is hard for advanced users to get right....

Only because Canon didn't bother designing an AFMA UI that makes sense for non-advanced users. There's nothing even slightly complex about AFMA in principle. The UI just sucks harder than a Hoover.

Instead, the camera should just provide a one-button-press option to recalibrate the currently attached lens, and should hide the AFMA values from the user entirely. I would envision something like this:



Would you like to calibrate this lens?


[YES] [NO] [DON'T ASK ME AGAIN]



Please set the zoom to its widest setting.


[Waiting]/[OK]



Please put the camera on a tripod and aim it at something more than 50 feet away.

[Too Close]/[OK]




I'm having trouble. Please make sure the camera is on a tripod, aim it at something far away, then press OK.

[Too Close]/[OK]



No, seriously, you [expletive] dolt, put it on a tripod.

[OK]



Calibrating.

(At this point, it flips the mirror up and down repeatedly, focusing in alternation between live view and normal mode. Periodically, it kicks the focus way out and repeats this process. Then, after about twenty flips, it continues.)



Please aim the camera at something about 5 feet away, then press OK.

[Camera goes into servo focus mode.]

[Too Close]/[Too Far]/[OK]



Calibrating.

(At this point, it flips the mirror up and down repeatedly, focusing in alternation between live view and normal mode. Periodically, it kicks the focus way out and repeats this process. Then, after about twenty flips, it continues.)



Please set the zoom to its narrowest setting.

[Waiting]/[OK]



Repeat these screens:

• Please point the camera at something more than 50 feet away, then press OK.
• Calibrating.
• Please point the camera at something about 5 feet away, then press OK.
• Calibrating.

Done calibrating.


[OK]



That's the sort of UI that you need when designing a feature like this for end users. From there, you calculate the mean AFMA value and the standard deviation. Then, throw away any outliers, and recompute the mean. If the standard deviation is too high or there are too many outliers, display the "make sure the camera is on a tripod" screen. Otherwise, use the resulting mean (with outliers removed) as the AFMA setting.

 

[kphoto99]

UGGGGGG....no no no no no....AFMA just has no place in the rebel line....

But including WB shift/bracketing does? How many non Rebel photographers use that?

If AFMA is simply called AFMA in the menus, nobody would use it on a Rebel unless they read about it first. It is not exactly a common acronym.

 

[StudentOfLight]

AFMA is more critical with faster lenses and larger sensors which would drive DoF down for a given subject-framing so if the function is missing on entry level cameras it's not a catastrophic issue, after all they are all APS-C.

Maybe WB-Shift & bracketing just happens to form part of the standard function-set used for all the Canon DSLRs. One of the Magic Lantern guys might be able to elaborate.

 

[Antono Refa]

They can make an APS-C version of their 120MP APC-H sensor. Etc.

That would make for a 66MP sensor. Does any of Canon's lenses have the resolving power to match that?

Depends on who is buying... some people have more money than sense.

Yes, a richer person could buy better lenses, but that doesn't answer the question of whether any of those better lenses could resolve 66MP (or even 44MP) on an APS-C sensor.

 

[crashpc]

Of course it will not resolve full 44Mpx. But I´m pretty sure it will resolve significantly more, that way it is worth.

 

[slclick]

The Canon body tech spec gaps are closing in and there needs to be a lineup refresh. The 6D, 50D to 60D gaff and the proposed 7D2 specs all muddied the waters and when you see other industries doing such a thing it leads to consumer confusion. Well, not for us smart kids in the CRF.

 

[wsmith96]

I guess other than wireless networking and more video features, I'm not sure what else they can put into this line of cameras. Maybe more local help files/videos.... who knows. Maybe a pop up flash that doubles as a bottle opener.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I guess other than wireless networking and more video features, I'm not sure what else they can put into this line of cameras. Maybe more local help files/videos.... who knows. Maybe a pop up flash that doubles as a bottle opener.

A texting function on the LCD so you can text and send your "friends" pictures. It is only a matter of time before someone makes a camera that has a phone built in to it. ;D

 

[scyrene]

food for thought from another topic ---http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21908.msg417183;topicseen#new --- only 5% of the buying public buys more than 1 lens apparently. That leaves 95% with a kit lens. What to venture a bet as to what percentage of that 95% never even take a peek at their manual? What percentage of that 95% even knows what an AF point is? LOL....that is why AFMA won't be in a rebel! How many users are in P mode would end up messing with their AFMA because they have blurry shots - because they don't know their shooting at a slow SS? Or because the AF is locking on to other things (all point active!!!). I would love to have more faith in humanity that this wouldn't happen, but, time and time again I get questions from the first time DSLR user and yup, theynever even opened the manual, hell they don't know where it is and ----yeah they look at me like I'm Satan for asking....I paid $$$$ for this and it should just work. UGGGGGG....no no no no no....AFMA just has no place in the rebel line....

Actually, I'd go the opposite direction. The Rebel bodies should have their kit lenses pre-AFMAed as part of the initial burn-in and packing process. That way, non-advanced users won't ever even have to think about it.

and most of those people shoot in "green box" mode.... do you really want them to be doing a complex and precise calibration sequence on a tool that they do not know how to use? AFMA is hard for advanced users to get right....

Only because Canon didn't bother designing an AFMA UI that makes sense for non-advanced users. There's nothing even slightly complex about AFMA in principle. The UI just sucks harder than a Hoover.

Instead, the camera should just provide a one-button-press option to recalibrate the currently attached lens, and should hide the AFMA values from the user entirely. I would envision something like this:



Would you like to calibrate this lens?


[YES] [NO] [DON'T ASK ME AGAIN]



Please set the zoom to its widest setting.


[Waiting]/[OK]



Please put the camera on a tripod and aim it at something more than 50 feet away.

[Too Close]/[OK]




I'm having trouble. Please make sure the camera is on a tripod, aim it at something far away, then press OK.

[Too Close]/[OK]



No, seriously, you [expletive] dolt, put it on a tripod.

[OK]



Calibrating.

(At this point, it flips the mirror up and down repeatedly, focusing in alternation between live view and normal mode. Periodically, it kicks the focus way out and repeats this process. Then, after about twenty flips, it continues.)



Please aim the camera at something about 5 feet away, then press OK.

[Camera goes into servo focus mode.]

[Too Close]/[Too Far]/[OK]



Calibrating.

(At this point, it flips the mirror up and down repeatedly, focusing in alternation between live view and normal mode. Periodically, it kicks the focus way out and repeats this process. Then, after about twenty flips, it continues.)



Please set the zoom to its narrowest setting.

[Waiting]/[OK]



Repeat these screens:

• Please point the camera at something more than 50 feet away, then press OK.
• Calibrating.
• Please point the camera at something about 5 feet away, then press OK.
• Calibrating.

Done calibrating.


[OK]



That's the sort of UI that you need when designing a feature like this for end users. From there, you calculate the mean AFMA value and the standard deviation. Then, throw away any outliers, and recompute the mean. If the standard deviation is too high or there are too many outliers, display the "make sure the camera is on a tripod" screen. Otherwise, use the resulting mean (with outliers removed) as the AFMA setting.

I'd be interested to know what percentage of people have a tripod. Surely a minority, especially at the low end. I'd like AFMA to be more automated, but I don't think it would be a feature most people would use.

 

[dgatwood]

Please put the camera on a tripod and aim it at something more than 50 feet away.

[Too Close]/[OK]

I'd be interested to know what percentage of people have a tripod. Surely a minority, especially at the low end. I'd like AFMA to be more automated, but I don't think it would be a feature most people would use.

"Please put the camera on a tripod or sturdy table and..." would work just fine. It doesn't have to be a tripod per se; it just has to be completely stationary, and pointed at something that's also completely stationary.

I suspect that if it were automated, most folks would use it, particularly if it immediately asks you if you want to calibrate a new lens whenever you first attach it. Mind you, most people would use it exactly once per lens, but that's usually all it takes, so....

 

[scyrene]

Please put the camera on a tripod and aim it at something more than 50 feet away.

[Too Close]/[OK]

I'd be interested to know what percentage of people have a tripod. Surely a minority, especially at the low end. I'd like AFMA to be more automated, but I don't think it would be a feature most people would use.

"Please put the camera on a tripod or sturdy table and..." would work just fine. It doesn't have to be a tripod per se; it just has to be completely stationary, and pointed at something that's also completely stationary.

I suspect that if it were automated, most folks would use it, particularly if it immediately asks you if you want to calibrate a new lens whenever you first attach it. Mind you, most people would use it exactly once per lens, but that's usually all it takes, so....

Haha fine. I have to say though, I've only felt the need to do it a couple of times - most lenses focus accurately enough for me. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm less fussy (I'm going with the former).

 

[Antono Refa]

Of course it will not resolve full 44Mpx. But I´m pretty sure it will resolve significantly more, that way it is worth.

Which is why Canon wouldn't do it - it would not only take sensor resolution out of the numbers race until the next generation of lenses comes out in a decade. That is not good for Canon's bottom line.

 

[jeffa4444]

In the end of the day we want sharp, naturally saturated as possible photographs. Why are smartphones taking over? partially because they are simple to use not stuffed full of menus Canon & Nikon et al. need to go back to basics with a DSLR at the entry level. Yes have programmed & then just manual leave everything else out, minimise the buttons and major on composition, lighting etc.

In the middle add more features for serious amateurs and then finally an all singing all dancing professional camera. Job done. Think AT-1 / AE-1, A-1 & F1 and drop APS-C then its simply EF lenses. Everything else is a complication.

 

[jdramirez]

In the end of the day we want sharp, naturally saturated as possible photographs. Why are smartphones taking over? partially because they are simple to use not stuffed full of menus Canon & Nikon et al. need to go back to basics with a DSLR at the entry level. Yes have programmed & then just manual leave everything else out, minimise the buttons and major on composition, lighting etc.

In the middle add more features for serious amateurs and then finally an all singing all dancing professional camera. Job done. Think AT-1 / AE-1, A-1 & F1 and drop APS-C then its simply EF lenses. Everything else is a complication.

I think people think they are going to get better... so they want the bells and whistles there... how often have we heard... I didn't know my camera could do that... so... yeah. Oh and my second point is that people never do get really proficient... so they don't have to be there.. but as a consumer you want to know they are stuffed to the gills because they think they will take the time to learn...

 

[iron-t]

Mark my words: the next Rebel will feature an 8-12 mp rear-facing camera for taking selfies while taking portraits of others. "This is what I look like when I'm taking photos!"

There appears to be no cute shorthand or portmanteau for "photos one has taken of another person." Othersies? Someday we will have to have a word for it.

 

[jdramirez]

Mark my words: the next Rebel will feature an 8-12 mp rear-facing camera for taking selfies while taking portraits of others. "This is what I look like when I'm taking photos!"

There appears to be no cute shorthand or portmanteau for "photos one has taken of another person." Othersies? Someday we will have to have a word for it.

We kinda do it now... with our thread... photos of other photographes.

 

[scyrene]

In the end of the day we want sharp, naturally saturated as possible photographs. Why are smartphones taking over? partially because they are simple to use not stuffed full of menus Canon & Nikon et al. need to go back to basics with a DSLR at the entry level. Yes have programmed & then just manual leave everything else out, minimise the buttons and major on composition, lighting etc.

In the middle add more features for serious amateurs and then finally an all singing all dancing professional camera. Job done. Think AT-1 / AE-1, A-1 & F1 and drop APS-C then its simply EF lenses. Everything else is a complication.

I don't agree. Depends what you mean by 'taking over' maybe. I think there are far more photos being taken - well there are. Most people carry a phone around most of the time. Once a camera was added, it meant they could take photos when they wouldn't be carrying a camera, and gave the option not to carry a camera at all. Some areas of traditional photography (like landscapes, photojournalism, weddings, and portraiture) might be suffering a little from the encroachment, but people still use dedicated cameras for wildlife, sport, and anything high end. It's not that phones are pushing cameras out so much as massively increasing the opportunities for photographs of general interest (and the internet has allowed them to be shared far more easily). And most people don't know or care about the loss of image quality (or the difference isn't apparent when viewed on small devices).

If simplicity is the selling point, why aren't simpler cameras like point-and-shoots doing better? Besides, you can buy a camera and ignore most of the buttons if you like. I really don't think DSLRs are competing directly with smartphones most of the time. Someone taking the plunge and buying a camera with interchangeable lenses has already decided that complication is an acceptable tradeoff for better image quality (perceived or real), or specialist capabilities.

 

[jeffa4444]

jdramirez

The AE-1 was one of Canon biggest selling cameras but was simple to use, likewise the step-up the A-1 was packed full of features both amateurs & professionals used yes that was film days and you needed to change film to change ISO but fantastics pictures were taken by those cameras. The AE-1 Program added you guessed it Programmed or basically auto expose but stayed true to the AE-1 formula now canon have depending where you live the EOS 1200D, 100D, 650D, 700D, 70D, 7D, 6D, 5DMKIII, 1D X & 1D C thats 10 different DSLRs if the market is saturated they will need to slim that down or face a sqeeze on margins in a shrinking marketplace.

 

[jebrady03]

Mark my words: the next Rebel will feature an 8-12 mp rear-facing camera for taking selfies while taking portraits of others. "This is what I look like when I'm taking photos!"

There appears to be no cute shorthand or portmanteau for "photos one has taken of another person." Othersies? Someday we will have to have a word for it.

I overheard what was probably a 12 year old girl inform her mother that a selfie with others on it is a "groupie". I think her mother rolled her eyes but I'm not positive as I had my head in my hands...

 

[jeffa4444]

scyrene
My point was adding more & more features is not what is going to advance or maintain DSLR camera sales the market is already confusing to many and even basic point & shoot cameras offer manual, shutter priorty, aperture priority, programmed & full auto. My point is the key to survival will be better image quality and the weakness currently is dynamic range 12-14 stops is well below the human eye, and streamlining products.

Already car companies are looking to lower the number of variants on models because now they have confused car buyers just look at VW group, BMW etc. whereas Apple are hugely successful selling two versions of the iPhone.