anyone else notice that a new rebel has yet to be announced?

jeffa4444 said:
scyrene
My point was adding more & more features is not what is going to advance or maintain DSLR camera sales the market is already confusing to many and even basic point & shoot cameras offer manual, shutter priorty, aperture priority, programmed & full auto. My point is the key to survival will be better image quality and the weakness currently is dynamic range 12-14 stops is well below the human eye, and streamlining products.

Already car companies are looking to lower the number of variants on models because now they have confused car buyers just look at VW group, BMW etc. whereas Apple are hugely successful selling two versions of the iPhone.

Hmm. I don't know anything about marketing, so I can't comment on that. I suspect true newbies mostly go for what they perceive as the best value option. Streamlining may make sense - but Canon must disagree, since they introduced another lower line (the 1100D, followed by 1200D). Then there's the 100D vs 700D. Although at the top end, they seemed to merge the 1D lines.

I absolutely don't think better image quality is the key to survival - since so few people seem to know or care what that is (assuming is can be objectively discussed at all). I see people very happy with shots I find execrable - they care about the content more than the dynamic range, sharpness, composition or whatever.
 
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jeffa4444 said:
scyrene
My point was adding more & more features is not what is going to advance or maintain DSLR camera sales the market is already confusing to many and even basic point & shoot cameras offer manual, shutter priorty, aperture priority, programmed & full auto. My point is the key to survival will be better image quality and the weakness currently is dynamic range 12-14 stops is well below the human eye, and streamlining products.

Already car companies are looking to lower the number of variants on models because now they have confused car buyers just look at VW group, BMW etc. whereas Apple are hugely successful selling two versions of the iPhone.

That reminds me of Silicon Valley... when they are having the discussion about lessor formats winning out... like beta max over vhs... I forget what example they used... but I dare say it was funny.
 
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scyrene said:
I absolutely don't think better image quality is the key to survival - since so few people seem to know or care what that is (assuming is can be objectively discussed at all). I see people very happy with shots I find execrable - they care about the content more than the dynamic range, sharpness, composition or whatever.

+100

Gear nerds will wish for better IQ and DR. Casual users won'y, and that is the vast majority of the entry level market. DR really only makes a difference for post processing - and yeah, how many causal users actually do any post processing? If they do, are they shooting in RAW? I'd dare say that most entry level users are shooting in jpeg, have 1 memory card that never leaves the camera. Connectivity will be the thing that breathes life into the market. I'd look for wifi, and simple file sharing (either through better phone to camera action, or direct from camera!) to be in rebels. dual Pixel will trickle both up and down - and IQ and DR will follow, but in a trickle down manner. New sensors aren't being made directly for rebels, the new tech will be in the pro bodies first. We may see some of that in the 7d2. But any of this tech is most liekly being designed with FF sensors in mind first!

Either way, I know we geeks would love to think that everyone values the same stuff as we do, but in reality - we geeks are the minority.

Even when it comes to pro shooting - like weddings - how many times are the crisp, post shot gets overlooked by the client in favor of a slightly out of focus/ overexposed/ poorly composed candid of the bride and groom laughing, or a hug...sometimes emotion trumps IQ and technical correctness!
 
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Antono Refa said:
That would make for a 66MP sensor. Does any of Canon's lenses have the resolving power to match that?

I doubt it, but it's impossible to know.

Given that the 5D3 resolves more (on average) across the lens lineup than does the D800 across its lens lineup, I think it's likely that for Canon, the sensor is the limiting factor in total system resolution at the moment. By how much? Anybody's guess. Chances are they'll release a higher resolution sensor sometime soon. Regardless, more resolution in any one area improves total system resolution (with diminishing returns).

And finally: I was joking. They could, but they obviously won't.

wsmith96 said:
Btw, I'm not ragging on macs - they just happen to be the easiest computers to work on.

I've been using OSX for several years now, and I still don't have it figured out. Windows is far more intuitive to me. Shrug.
 
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Chuck Alaimo said:
Gear nerds will wish for better IQ and DR. Casual users won'[t], and that is the vast majority of the entry level market.

I must not be alone in having heard many times (not necessarily about my work): wow, nice photo, you must have a nice camera.

To most people who don't pursue photography, there is an expected link between quality of gear and quality of result. Of course there is a value decision, but casual buyers don't want low-quality images, and many are willing to pay higher prices on the assumption that doing so will improve their results.
 
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3kramd5 said:
Chuck Alaimo said:
Gear nerds will wish for better IQ and DR. Casual users won'[t], and that is the vast majority of the entry level market.

I must not be alone in having heard many times (not necessarily about my work): wow, nice photo, you must have a nice camera.

To most people who don't pursue photography, there is an expected link between quality of gear and quality of result. Of course there is a value decision, but casual buyers don't want low-quality images, and many are willing to pay higher prices on the assumption that doing so will improve their results.

Very true. I used to get offended when people said that to me! Really all I'm saying is that 75% of the stuff we talk about here would go right over the heads of those of most entry level DSLR buyers and yes, users!!!
 
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The sub-rebel model I would build would be called the "Serenity" or something stupid like that, with internal non removable flash, and have only a few buttons:

1. Shutter button
2. Mode dial with green box and 5 or so modes like sports / portrait, etc
3. Autofocus point selector between ALL / Center / Face Recognition (when using DPAF)
4. Send Photos button

The touchscreen menu would have very few options like disable flash, etc. The main feature would be to wirelessly connect to an iPhone or computer and either autosend to the device after each photo or manual send whenever the "Network Send" button is pushed. Micro-USB would be the only port, for both charging and connecting (although the battery would be removable).
 
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Chuck Alaimo said:
+100

Gear nerds will wish for better IQ and DR. Casual users won'y, and that is the vast majority of the entry level market. DR really only makes a difference for post processing - and yeah, how many causal users actually do any post processing? If they do, are they shooting in RAW? I'd dare say that most entry level users are shooting in jpeg, have 1 memory card that never leaves the camera. Connectivity will be the thing that breathes life into the market. I'd look for wifi, and simple file sharing (either through better phone to camera action, or direct from camera!) to be in rebels. dual Pixel will trickle both up and down - and IQ and DR will follow, but in a trickle down manner. New sensors aren't being made directly for rebels, the new tech will be in the pro bodies first. We may see some of that in the 7d2. But any of this tech is most liekly being designed with FF sensors in mind first!

Either way, I know we geeks would love to think that everyone values the same stuff as we do, but in reality - we geeks are the minority.

Even when it comes to pro shooting - like weddings - how many times are the crisp, post shot gets overlooked by the client in favor of a slightly out of focus/ overexposed/ poorly composed candid of the bride and groom laughing, or a hug...sometimes emotion trumps IQ and technical correctness!

I dare say I'm a reasonably seasoned photographer at the moment, but when I first got my xs I shot in aperture priority after a month...

I probably didn't post process until after a year or so... and I didn't start shooting in raw until three years in...

Off camera flash a few months after...

Backgrounds shortly thereafter...

Dynamic range STILL ISN'T AN ISSUE FOR ME... though I'll cheat and use hdr if the lighting is a real challenge.
 
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The casual user may not know about dynamic range but they certainly notice burnt out skies, or overexposed parts of the frame. Lattitude would provide more keepers and better satifaction for casual photographers and a greater confidence in photography if it was not important I doubt all the CMOS designners & manufacturers would be spending $$$$$$ on improving sensitivity for a minority.
Obviuosly in itself its only one aspect and Wi-Fi, GPS etc. is more appealing for advertizers to sell cameras to consumers after all we EXPECT cars to be reliable and that every new model has better gas consumption so it follows each new generation of camera should improve overall performance the point is we have a long way to go between 12 stops and 20 stops.
 
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jeffa4444 said:
The casual user may not know about dynamic range but they certainly notice burnt out skies, or overexposed parts of the frame. Lattitude would provide more keepers and better satifaction for casual photographers and a greater confidence in photography if it was not important I doubt all the CMOS designners & manufacturers would be spending $$$$$$ on improving sensitivity for a minority.
Obviuosly in itself its only one aspect and Wi-Fi, GPS etc. is more appealing for advertizers to sell cameras to consumers after all we EXPECT cars to be reliable and that every new model has better gas consumption so it follows each new generation of camera should improve overall performance the point is we have a long way to go between 12 stops and 20 stops.

I dunno. Maybe we're thinking of different people, but most mobile photos shared on places like Twitter and Instagram have blown channels in the sky, or skin. And I daresay if I mentioned it, 99% of them wouldn't even know what I meant. It took me a couple of years to get to grips with photography terminology, and I was pretty obsessive about it. When I think how I would explain concepts to total beginners, I shudder.

That's not to say most people wouldn't think a photograph taken with a camera that has better dynamic range (to take one aspect of image quality) wasn't better than one taken with poorer kit, but I don't think most of them would know why - or be able to express it. And they wouldn't know what aspects of better equipment would give them that better image quality.

(I don't want to sound like I'm belittling people, but I have to go on what I've seen).
 
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jeffa4444 said:
The casual user may not know about dynamic range but they certainly notice burnt out skies, or overexposed parts of the frame. Lattitude would provide more keepers and better satifaction for casual photographers and a greater confidence in photography if it was not important I doubt all the CMOS designners & manufacturers would be spending $$$$$$ on improving sensitivity for a minority.
Obviuosly in itself its only one aspect and Wi-Fi, GPS etc. is more appealing for advertizers to sell cameras to consumers after all we EXPECT cars to be reliable and that every new model has better gas consumption so it follows each new generation of camera should improve overall performance the point is we have a long way to go between 12 stops and 20 stops.

this goes right back to what i said in a few posts back though, the benefit of that DR comes in post process - the image out of camera will not look significantly different. The point of DR is that to give latitude after the shot is taken. What I am saying is that most casual users shoot in jpeg and don't use any post process. Hell, I know many causal users who have shots from 2 years ago still on their memory cards, some even further back. Some that don't even know how to get the photos off their camera!

IMO, the casual user would prefer some kind of in cam HDR to more DR because they can get the effect of more DR without doing any PP. It's easy to be here on these forums and forget that WE are in the minority.

Another point to consider here too - casual users and burnt out skies, overexposed parts of the frame, and more than likely lots of red eye washed out on camera flash - we are talking about casual users, folks who go full auto everything (AF in all points active mode too) ---- maybe the skies would be a bit better if they took the time to learn how to use their camera!!!! I know that sounds real condescending, but, you have no clue how often I get asked simple questions - and many of these people have owned their rebel for years (and yeah, the nikon equivalent). At least when its a canon i can show them stuff, but when its an entry level nikon person, I always say ---check the manual, it'll explain it...they say, I don't have the manual... I say - well, you should be able to find it online ---- then they say, I'll just ask my other friend, he shoots nikon....I shoot a lot of events so I get asked these questions quite a bit. These are the users that drive the entry level market.

Some end up liking photography enough to read the manual, then find tutorials and learn, maybe even take a class or 2. these are the folks that end up taking the plunge into the XXD, XD series cameras.

Things like DR and low ISO IQ, max ISO IQ, buffer, FPS, AF control, AF tracking, AFMA, ...this is all stuff that will only matter to those who take things to the next level. That's why new awesomeness will come first in the semipro and pro bodies. The XXD and XD series market does care about this stuff.
 
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scyrene said:
jeffa4444 said:
The casual user may not know about dynamic range but they certainly notice burnt out skies, or overexposed parts of the frame. Lattitude would provide more keepers and better satifaction for casual photographers and a greater confidence in photography if it was not important I doubt all the CMOS designners & manufacturers would be spending $$$$$$ on improving sensitivity for a minority.
Obviuosly in itself its only one aspect and Wi-Fi, GPS etc. is more appealing for advertizers to sell cameras to consumers after all we EXPECT cars to be reliable and that every new model has better gas consumption so it follows each new generation of camera should improve overall performance the point is we have a long way to go between 12 stops and 20 stops.

I dunno. Maybe we're thinking of different people, but most mobile photos shared on places like Twitter and Instagram have blown channels in the sky, or skin. And I daresay if I mentioned it, 99% of them wouldn't even know what I meant. It took me a couple of years to get to grips with photography terminology, and I was pretty obsessive about it. When I think how I would explain concepts to total beginners, I shudder.

That's not to say most people wouldn't think a photograph taken with a camera that has better dynamic range (to take one aspect of image quality) wasn't better than one taken with poorer kit, but I don't think most of them would know why - or be able to express it. And they wouldn't know what aspects of better equipment would give them that better image quality.

(I don't want to sound like I'm belittling people, but I have to go on what I've seen).

+100 that's pretty much what I just said!
 
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