Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?

Random Orbits said:
It does seem to happen a lot. Remember all the people poo-pooing the 6D when its specs were released? Many of those here advocated for the 5DII over the 6D, but you don't see many of those in favor of the 5DII anymore. If Canon did its homework, the 7DII should sell well.

+1. Here in the UK ( or should I say England & Wales ;) ) the 5DII used prices held up very well when the 6D was first released, but now they are dropping considerably. I would assume this is because 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' , and people are finding the eating pretty good.

Strange how this happens with Canon gear. I think it's because they are relatively conservative in new releases, but those new releases turn out to be solid, well sorted. Remember the introduction of the 70-300L ? People howled that it was no better than the non L - because it's paper specification was similar ::). Remember the 24-70 f4 IS ? The 6D ?

The only people who are complaining about the performance of the Canon sensors are those that are obsessing over the fabrication process. It's still 500um or whatever so there cannot have been any improvement......

Annoys the hell out of me.
 
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dilbert said:
Lee Jay said:
jrista said:
So, why the heck should I keep waiting, when a D810 is right there, it already has everything I need, and is for sale on the market today?

Because you might only have to wait two weeks or so to see what Canon has been up to lately. At least that might give a clue as to future directions.

If you exclude the "OMG, 1080p in the 5DII" and look at the very slow evolution of Canon's DSLRs then it is pretty easy to accurately guess where Canon will go next...

i.e. not very far.

nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years. what do you expect from an SLR? Canon had such a head starts on everyone once they get rolling int he digital era, everything else is really now diminishing returns.

or even a range finder based system - all of them are basically improvements on a past model.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous assertions I've seen.
 
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Sporgon said:
Random Orbits said:
It does seem to happen a lot. Remember all the people poo-pooing the 6D when its specs were released? Many of those here advocated for the 5DII over the 6D, but you don't see many of those in favor of the 5DII anymore. If Canon did its homework, the 7DII should sell well.

+1. Here in the UK ( or should I say England & Wales ;) ) the 5DII used prices held up very well when the 6D was first released, but now they are dropping considerably. I would assume this is because 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' , and people are finding the eating pretty good.

Strange how this happens with Canon gear. I think it's because they are relatively conservative in new releases, but those new releases turn out to be solid, well sorted.

it's amazing how some here think they know better than a company that literally spends billions in R&D per year.
 
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rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?
 
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Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I meant camera body - how much more improvement of "innovative" can there really be in a camera body. it's going to look, smell, act the same, and have improvements upon a prior model.

is an d810 innovative? a d800? D600? even a A7 is that innovative? (like no one's done a FF sensor in a range finder class body before?) the A7S innovative?

they are all simply rehashes and improvements on something else.

canon has done a ton; they took over a market with a ballsy move dropping the FD mount and moving to the EF mount, and produced some of the most innovative products when they could - simply put; it's hard to be innovative when you did it all in the past before anyone else and now go .. "what now?"

now if the 7D has entirely replaceable parts, multiple sensor backs, switchable viewfinders and open source firmware, well that may change my mind somewhat :p

but in reality expecting canon to always be "innovative" when the industry on the whole really hasn't been is a stretch.
 
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rrcphoto said:
it's amazing how some here think they know better than a company that literally spends billions in R&D per year.

+1

allow me to slightly change your statement:

it's amazing how, based on unsubstantiated rumours, some here think they know better than a company that literally spends billions in R&D per year.

It's also amazing how they can use the fact that Canon is one of the world's largest filer of patents to show that they are not innovative....
 
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Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I think rrcphoto meant his comments to be ironic.........
 
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clchee said:
Canon Rumors said:
Fixed LCD, with no touch function.

I currently use a EOS 70D. I like the articulating LCD and touch function (especially for choosing
a focus point during video recording). Why would the 7DmII not have these features?

Don't believe it one way or the other until an official announcement is made. These rumours are just guesses...
 
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Sabaki said:
Hehehe! I do remember how it was slated as a piece of crap. In fact, the very guy who told me he'll never exchange his 5D2 for a 6D, now has a 6D and sold the 5D2...

Doesn't the 6D match or exceed the 5D Mark II's specifications in every way except for resolution (and only slightly lower in resolution)? It has much lower noise at high ISO, faster FPS, more autofocus points, many more features....
 
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Sporgon said:
Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I think rrcphoto meant his comments to be ironic.........

not really. i would love a camera company to do something totally radical. take a playbook out of thom hogan's thoughts on camera systems and surrounding ecosystems.

However I'm surprised people expect this level of "innovation" and think canon's doing nothing though - what more can they do that they haven't done already?
 
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rrcphoto said:
Sporgon said:
Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I think rrcphoto meant his comments to be ironic.........

not really. i would love a camera company to do something totally radical. take a playbook out of thom hogan's thoughts on camera systems and surrounding ecosystems.

However I'm surprised people expect this level of "innovation" and think canon's doing nothing though - what more can they do that they haven't done already?

Move to a 180ym process....... :-X
 
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rrcphoto said:
Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I meant camera body - how much more improvement of "innovative" can there really be in a camera body. it's going to look, smell, act the same, and have improvements upon a prior model.

Digital sensors, predictive autofocus, video and on-sensor PDAF are all in the camera body.

Very, very few industries have totally new directions from one generation to the next. Isn't my Prius just some minor improvements on a Model T? They both have an IC engine and four wheels, they both are manufactured on an assembly line, etc.

Is a 787 really much different than a De Havilland Comet? They're both tube-on-wing designs with engines on the wings and a lower-case T-tail.

The multitude of incremental improvements in camera bodies that have accumulated since I bought my AE-1 are nothing short of stunning to me, and they enable me to take photos that were just not possible with the AE-1.
 
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Sporgon said:
rrcphoto said:
Sporgon said:
Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I think rrcphoto meant his comments to be ironic.........

not really. i would love a camera company to do something totally radical. take a playbook out of thom hogan's thoughts on camera systems and surrounding ecosystems.

However I'm surprised people expect this level of "innovation" and think canon's doing nothing though - what more can they do that they haven't done already?

Move to a 180ym process....... :-X

and out side of a few "engineering" consultants that don't work at canon; how would we know that would improve it by what?

would a 180nm sensor all of a sudden make you feel like you could take better photos? would the assurance that the sensor used 90nm lithography all of a sudden open your eyes up to the nature of light around us, and explore details like no one has done before?

not to mention canon could develop down to 5nm lithography - today. if there was a fundamental need. they have the technology.
 
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Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I meant camera body - how much more improvement of "innovative" can there really be in a camera body. it's going to look, smell, act the same, and have improvements upon a prior model.

Digital sensors, predictive autofocus, video and on-sensor PDAF are all in the camera body.

Very, very few industries have totally new directions from one generation to the next. Isn't my Prius just some minor improvements on a Model T? They both have an IC engine and four wheels, they both are manufactured on an assembly line, etc.

Is a 787 really much different than a De Havilland Comet? They're both tube-on-wing designs with engines on the wings and a lower-case T-tail.

The multitude of incremental improvements in camera bodies that have accumulated since I bought my AE-1 are nothing short of stunning to me, and they enable me to take photos that were just not possible with the AE-1.

I totally agree. canon's releases have been well rounded, suited needs and incremental - I'm certainly not complaining about them.
 
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rrcphoto said:
Sporgon said:
rrcphoto said:
Sporgon said:
Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I think rrcphoto meant his comments to be ironic.........

not really. i would love a camera company to do something totally radical. take a playbook out of thom hogan's thoughts on camera systems and surrounding ecosystems.

However I'm surprised people expect this level of "innovation" and think canon's doing nothing though - what more can they do that they haven't done already?

Move to a 180ym process....... :-X

and out side of a few "engineering" consultants that don't work at canon; how would we know that would improve it by what?

would a 180nm sensor all of a sudden make you feel like you could take better photos? would the assurance that the sensor used 90nm lithography all of a sudden open your eyes up to the nature of light around us, and explore details like no one has done before?

not to mention canon could develop down to 5nm lithography - today. if there was a fundamental need. they have the technology.

This time I was being ironic ;)
 
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Sporgon said:
rrcphoto said:
Sporgon said:
rrcphoto said:
Sporgon said:
Lee Jay said:
rrcphoto said:
nothing has really been innovative in camera systems for the last 30+ years.

Here we go again - digital sensors, image stabilization, USM focusing, predictive servo autofocus, diffractive optics, zooms that are outstanding optically, video, on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Nothing innovative?

I think rrcphoto meant his comments to be ironic.........

not really. i would love a camera company to do something totally radical. take a playbook out of thom hogan's thoughts on camera systems and surrounding ecosystems.

However I'm surprised people expect this level of "innovation" and think canon's doing nothing though - what more can they do that they haven't done already?

Move to a 180ym process....... :-X

and out side of a few "engineering" consultants that don't work at canon; how would we know that would improve it by what?

would a 180nm sensor all of a sudden make you feel like you could take better photos? would the assurance that the sensor used 90nm lithography all of a sudden open your eyes up to the nature of light around us, and explore details like no one has done before?

not to mention canon could develop down to 5nm lithography - today. if there was a fundamental need. they have the technology.

This time I was being ironic ;)

totally missed it :p
 
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Alright, time for some concrete evidence. Here is a 5-frame bracketed sequence I took yesterday of a sunflower field at sunset:

1k24hn8.jpg


The shots were bracketed 2 stops apart. I was shooting directly into the sun, as you can see. Did I really want to? Well, kind of. More importantly, I HAD to. The sunflowers face east, towards the rising sun. To actually have sunflowers in my photos, I had to shoot directly into the sun.

Here are the first, middle, and last images:

0IxsxmE.jpg

B9Jh1ou.jpg

WsGd1Lu.jpg


The first was exposed for the sun. The last was exposed for the foreground. Now, since everyone want's a fair comparison, I'm using the middle image from the 5-frame sequence as the "most fair" towards my 5D III. Here it is after processing it to extract the most detail possible:

xRXHII5.jpg


This is a +3 stop exposure pull (lift), -100 highlights, -100 whites, +60 shadows. As you can see, the sun is blown, and it has some posterization around it. Here is a closeup of the sun:

YqImETx.jpg


Here is a closeup of the noise in the foreground:

KbVHmhk.jpg


That's not good noise. That's nasty noise. It's banded, red-shifted, and it is already getting blotchy. I also took the image exposed for the sun, and did a +5 stop exposure pull, -100 highlights, -100 whites, +75 shadows, +10 blacks:

GuojO3J.jpg


In this shot, the sun is MUCH better, although it's still hot and overexposed in the end. However, the foreground...the foreground is absolutely atrocious. The 5D III can MAYBE handle a +3 stop pull, but it definitely can not handle a +5 stop pull. If one were to listen to dtaylor about Photographic DR, one would believe that Canon cameras are only within a third-stop of Exmor sensors...however, who on earth would consider the above image acceptable? Anyone? I mean, be truly honest here.

Here is a close up comparison of the noise, color fidelity, and detail of the +5 pull, +3 pull, +3 pull denoised/debanded, and the last shot that was exposed for the foreground:

Jq7Vm9g.gif


The +5 stop pull, as well as the +3 stop pull, both suffer from the fact that a lot of the detail is buried within the noise floor. I worked the +3 stop pull for about 10 minutes. I could probably reduce noise further, however I was already losing detail (look at the edges of some of the leaves deeper in the shadows of the +3 denoised...compare them with the +3 non-denoised and the full exposure...LOT of softening!!) I did not even bother to denoise the +5 stop pull...that is well beyond the capabilities of ANY Canon camera. Since most computer screens are 8-bit, a 3-stop pull is necessary to fully realize the 11 stops worth of DR in a Canon RAW, without lifting the read noise as well. Well, based on the samples here, even a 3-stop pull is kind of pushing it...the banding and color blotchiness is all read noise...photon shot noise exhibits as clean, random noise (of which there is definitely plenty, but it's mixed with read noise as well.) A 5-stop pull would be necessary to fully realize the 13 stops worth of DR that a D800 has. I don't think anyone honestly denies that Sony Exmor sensors have more DR. Aside from dtaylor's Photographic DR, the standard definition of Engineering DR, the ratio between the clipping point and the RMS of read noise (the read noise floor) indicates that Exmor sensors have a two-stop lead on Canon sensors. So...with a D800...I could have made this photograph in a single shot. Directly into the sun, underexposed by five stops, then lifted five stops.

Finally, here is the HDR merge:

GdJSzX7.jpg


I had problems with this. It was a 5-frame sequence, separated by 2 stops. I ran into problems with posterization around the sun, and even after the HDR merge, I could not fully realize the sun. I was able to recover the sky and all the other detail, but still not the sun. Given the nature of the posterization, I figure I would have needed at least a 9-frame sequence separated by 1 stop or less to produce a fine enough grade in the highlights around the sun to avoid posterization. Some HDR wizards would have probably shot 15 frames. Either way....it's more work. Getting a 15-frame sequence for HDR that does not run into problems with motion in the scene...the sunflowers moving in the wind, the clouds moving, even the sun moving as it sets, is more difficult.

And, I could have gotten it in a single shot with a D800. Here is a single-shot sunflowers into the sunset shot with a D800 on 500px:

http://500px.com/photo/40685186/sunset-flowers-)-by-kenji-yamamura
 
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