Are you experiencing this phenomenon with IBIS on your Canon EOS R5?

[usern4cr]

I tried 6 RF lenses, and I was able to get two of them to replicate the problem for a time. But then they didn't. I then locked all of them down on a tripod and reshot the tests, and none of them show the problem.

This may be because:
1) I'm just not good at replicating the problem and am doing it wrong
2) We're all seeing shutter button mashing effect and attributing it to IBIS
3) The tripod is sensed and the problem is going away because the camera is turning off the problem due to it knowing it's on a tripod (although I deliberately rocked the camera the camera from startup to 1 second before testing so that it would minimize the odds of the camera detecting the tripod)

I've been shooting at 1/8th of a second for these latest tests to maximize the visible effect. Trying lenses with lens IS and without. All RF glass.

If the problem goes away when you're on a tripod, then there's not a problem, period!
This just means that this whole thing is NOT a problem, but rather an issue with the motion of holding a camera and pressing the shutter button in fast enough FPS mode.

By the way, if IS is on then the IBIS stays on whether you're on a tripod or not. I rely on that all the time in case the tripod/camera vibrates due to other factors like wind or ground motion.

 

[[email protected]]

If the problem goes away when you're on a tripod, then there's not a problem, period!
This just means that this whole thing is NOT a problem, but rather an issue with the motion of holding a camera and pressing the shutter button in fast enough FPS mode.

By the way, if IS is on then the IBIS stays on whether you're on a tripod or not. I rely on that all the time in case the tripod/camera vibrates due to other factors like wind or ground motion.

If IS on means IBIS is always on, then yes, I can confirm that IBIS was on when I was able to show these lenses shooting 1/8th of a second with no evidence of the "twist."

While tempted to say that this is a teapot tempest, Canon's firmware logic is complex enough that I can't rule out that this is true only with the particular settings I had on my R5.

 

[StandardLumen]

Mecahnical is only 14 bit up to 8 fps.

I hadn't heard that before. The R5 is capable of 12 fps in mechanical shutter mode, so if it drops below 14 bit, is that based on the shooting mode, or based on how many frames you've actually captured?

 

[juanmaasecas]

If the problem goes away when you're on a tripod, then there's not a problem, period!
This just means that this whole thing is NOT a problem, but rather an issue with the motion of holding a camera and pressing the shutter button in fast enough FPS mode.

By the way, if IS is on then the IBIS stays on whether you're on a tripod or not. I rely on that all the time in case the tripod/camera vibrates due to other factors like wind or ground motion.

It is not a problem of how you hold the camera and press the shutter button. Read my previous comments please.
- only the first picture, not the rest (when you keep half-pressed the shutter
- only when ibis is set to always (if set to only for shot, the first picture is also good)

I think the camera senses when it’s on a tripod and the ibis mode “changes”, that’s why it’s not happening. I did tests on a tripod, if I do it quickly after I set ok the tripod, the problem happens, but a bit after it would stop happening.

 

[Jonathan Thill]

I think I should withdraw my 5D4 sale advertisement then (until they fix it). Unacceptable that IBIS would reduce image quality.

Hmm, unacceptable?

The entire exposure triangle is a compromise that as a photographer you should be aware of. We are forced to work with the limitation of Aperture, ISO, Shutter speed all the time so adding another variable is a meh issue for me.

While I have not had any issues with IBIS it sounds like this might end up being a known limitation of the IBIS in the R5\R6 that might be fixed in firmware or might not be, but your comment makes it sound like the Camera is incapable of capturing an image and I think we all know that is simply not the case.

Save us the drama, report the issue to Canon and until it is fixed, compromise a little.

 

[rbr]

I have that problem with my R5 on occasion. I have been mostly been shooting landscapes and macro with it, so shooting consecutive frames each time I release the shutter hasn't been a huge problem, but I could see it being a potential problem in the future for capturing fleeting shots.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason that I can tell that triggers it. Yesterday afternoon in my backyard it happened at least 50% of the time. Today I took it out all day using 5 different lenses, some Canon, some Sigma, some with IS, some without and it never occured once.

 

[Chris.Chapterten]

If the problem goes away when you're on a tripod, then there's not a problem, period!
This just means that this whole thing is NOT a problem, but rather an issue with the motion of holding a camera and pressing the shutter button in fast enough FPS mode.

By the way, if IS is on then the IBIS stays on whether you're on a tripod or not. I rely on that all the time in case the tripod/camera vibrates due to other factors like wind or ground motion.

The IBIS behaviour changes when the camera is put on a tripod, so drawing a definite conclusion based on that test alone is not really possible.

 

[VegasCameraGuy]

Can definitely recreate this on mine also. First shot after waking up or turning on is blurry, easiest to see in the corners. Easily repeatable, but only 70-80% of the times, so do check a few on/offs.

Could you provide a step by step to reproduce the problem?

 

[VegasCameraGuy]

I am one of those he's mentioned that has confirmed the behavior on both my R5 and R6. First shot has the twisting...the rest are fine. It resets if I review images on the LCD, change modes or turn the camera off, so after doing those things, the next shot will have the twisting again on the next first shot.

Changing the IS mode to "only for shot" eliminates the problem, so I have done that until Canon can update the firmware to fix this.

Assume I'm an idiot. Tell me how to reproduce the problem as I've never experienced it? There are a dozen setting that could be changed and it's much simpler if you explain in detail how to replicate the problem.

 

[juanmaasecas]

Assume I'm an idiot. Tell me how to reproduce the problem as I've never experienced it? There are a dozen setting that could be changed and it's much simpler if you explain in detail how to replicate the problem.

Use a lens without OIs. NO optical stabilisation.
Set IBIS to Always ON
Go to shutter priority mode (for example)
set 1/10s shutter speed
Use af servo (also happens in one shot, but it will be easier for you to discard other issues)
single shot mode (you can try also burst, it also happens, but then people will say that the problem is pressing the button in the first shot...)
Focus at something far to better see details

As you are in servo, focus in the center point (for example) and keep the camera focusing during a couple of seconds
After that, very carefully fully press the shutter button to take the picture and, WITHOUT RELEASING THE SHUTTER, go back to keep focusing in the same spot.
Then, very carefully take another picture, and after back go back to half pressing
Take another picture, etc

You will see how the first picture is blurred 90% of the time (look at the edges and corners, the center is usually sharp of course), and the successive pictures are sharp. You can see how when the live view feedback in the LCD screen is restored, there is a visible twist that does not happen in the rest of the pictures.

edit: Use either EFCS or electronic shutter.

 

[VegasCameraGuy]

Assume I'm an idiot. Tell me how to reproduce the problem as I've never experienced it? There are a dozen setting that could be changed and it's much simpler if you explain in detail how to replicate the pr

Use a lens without OIs. NO optical stabilisation.
Set IBIS to Always ON
Go to shutter priority mode (for example)
set 1/10s shutter speed
Use af servo (also happens in one shot, but it will be easier for you to discard other issues)
single shot mode (you can try also burst, it also happens, but then people will say that the problem is pressing the button in the first shot...)
Focus at something far to better see details

As you are in servo, focus in the center point (for example) and keep the camera focusing during a couple of seconds
After that, very carefully fully press the shutter button to take the picture and, WITHOUT RELEASING THE SHUTTER, go back to keep focusing in the same spot.
Then, very carefully take another picture, and after back go back to half pressing
Take another picture, etc

You will see how the first picture is blurred 90% of the time (look at the edges and corners, the center is usually sharp of course), and the successive pictures are sharp. You can see how when the live view feedback in the LCD screen is restored, there is a visible twist that does not happen in the rest of the pictures.

edit: Use either EFCS or electronic shutter.

Thanks for the explanation. Don't you think mentioning that the problem only apparently exists with non-RF lenses or those without IS? Does the problem exist with an R5 and an RF lens? I'm taking pictures of my computer screen with my R5 f8, ISO 100, AV mode, at 1/15 or 1/20th and don't see the problem if I take a shot release the button, and take another shot or keeping the shutter half depressed and taking multiple shots.

 

[juanmaasecas]

Thanks for the explanation. Don't you think mentioning that the problem only apparently exists with non-RF lenses or those without IS? Does the problem exist with an R5 and an RF lens? I'm taking pictures of my computer screen with my R5 f8, ISO 100, AV mode, at 1/15 or 1/20th and don't see the problem if I take a shot release the button, and take another shot or keeping the shutter half depressed and taking multiple shots.

It does happen with RF lenses, at least with the RF 50 1.8 that I tried in the Canon service center. But it seems that it only happens with lenses without optical stabilisation.

If you take pictures of your computer screen maybe it is not enough to see the issue, try focusing something far with small details.

Also there are a few people that don't seem to have the issue, so maybe not all batches are affected? I don't know...

 

[Jonathan Thill]

Super easy to Repo on the R5 with the RF 50 1.8. Sending a report to CPS Canada right now.



As I have posted before not something that appears to be impacting any of my images but something is off with the first image for sure.

Edit: Will try my R6 and see what it does after I am done dinner.

Edit:2 Confirmed the R6 does the same thing using the RF 50 1.8

 

[snappy604]

definitely seen it when rapid bursting on R5 Electronic shutter and slight movement... you see the shifting/warping of IBIS but find the images individually are still quite useful.

had a few chats early on with the R5s about fuzzyiness, including with a tripod.. wondering if its really the same thing. I usually take small bursts now and keep what I need, but yeah from time to time some things aren't fully explainable.

 

[SnowMiku]

It will be fixed in the R3, and they will release the R1 when they are sure all of the IBIS bugs are worked out. I hope the R5/R6 users get a firmware update to fix this.

 

[f119a]

I sent my R5 in last year with images supporting that the IBIS sometimes does the “wobble” when taking still images; i.e., the center of the image is sharp but gets progressively blurry as you move toward the edges. Canon USA’s repair facility sent it back to me saying that the IBIS was within “acceptable tolerances”. It has made me less of an R5 enthusiast...

P.S. it does seem to be better with the later firmware updates.

I'd say this happens to all cameras with IBIS. At least I know Nikon Z cameras are prone to this and GFX100 got this problem too.

 

[juanmaasecas]

I'd say this happens to all cameras with IBIS. At least I know Nikon Z cameras are prone to this and GFX100 got this problem too.

I would understand that randomly the ibis can be more or less effective from shot to shot, but the fact that there is a violent sensor twist only after the first picture is taken (near the end of the exposure actually) and only when ibis is set to always on, indicates that there is a bug in the firmware most probably.

 

[HMC11]

Use a lens without OIs. NO optical stabilisation.
Set IBIS to Always ON
Go to shutter priority mode (for example)
set 1/10s shutter speed
Use af servo (also happens in one shot, but it will be easier for you to discard other issues)
single shot mode (you can try also burst, it also happens, but then people will say that the problem is pressing the button in the first shot...)
Focus at something far to better see details

As you are in servo, focus in the center point (for example) and keep the camera focusing during a couple of seconds
After that, very carefully fully press the shutter button to take the picture and, WITHOUT RELEASING THE SHUTTER, go back to keep focusing in the same spot.
Then, very carefully take another picture, and after back go back to half pressing
Take another picture, etc

You will see how the first picture is blurred 90% of the time (look at the edges and corners, the center is usually sharp of course), and the successive pictures are sharp. You can see how when the live view feedback in the LCD screen is restored, there is a visible twist that does not happen in the rest of the pictures.

edit: Use either EFCS or electronic shutter.

You mentioned earlier that switching to 'Only for Shot' mode solved the problem. If so, I am curious as to why that is the case. I believe the the 'Only for Shot' mode is only available when using a non-IS lens, otherwise, it is blanked out for Canon's IS lenses. This is what I understand about the IBIS. When set to 'Always On', you can hear the whirring sound in the camera if you put your ear close to it. In the 'Only for shot' mode, you can only hear the whirring sound if the shutter is half pressed. This seems to me that IBIS only kicks in when the shutter is half pressed in the 'only for shot' mode, i.e. it needs some time to be activated before the shot is taken, whereas, it is already on in the 'always on' mode. If this is true, I wonder why activating it later in the 'only for shot' mode would make the twisting problem go away, as the difference in the two modes seems to be a matter of when the IBIS kicks in. Could it be that in the 'always on' mode, the IBIS is essentially 'sleeping', and hence has to figure out the amount of compensation for the first shot, which it doesn't always get right, and hence the 'twisting'? And that in the 'only for shot' mode, the activation of the IBIS when the shutter is half pressed allows the IBIS to 'wake up' sufficiently to calculate the necessary compensation and hence there is no 'twisting'? Wonder what you think.

 

[privatebydesign]

Canon doesn't provide a screwdriver to turn it off when you have IS in the lens - it's both on or both off.

And that’s got nothing to do with the phenomenon being reported here, that is, it only happens on lenses with no IS.

 

[f119a]

Quite a few cameras' IBIS systems are prone to overcompensating when working, creating an effect like using tilted/de-centered lenses. I don't think sony cameras are doing this but they got their own problems. I just tested on my R5 and it seems ok. Don't forget your second press could induce vibration as well.
I tested several times on my R5 too and it seems ok.
Is it a bug? Maybe.
Is it still saving more pics than having no IBIS? Definitely yes based on my experience, especially on higher MP cameras like GFX100.