*BUSTED* 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?

[crjiro]

i'm still thinking there has to be a cam that is a 5D something that will match and pass the mp of d800.
The 1DX is against the D4. So, there still could be split into two at least in my thimble full of brains. This would
'outgun' the Nikon strategy for price and performance perspective. Thats how we have to look at Canon's outlook. They do just enough to surpass whatever Nikon is doing.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?

if they change the AF between the 2 versions it would make more sense.

Exactly, these had to be fake even if they hadn't been found out from before.
I mean let me see they put the worse action AF and low fps on the 22MP camera and the top action AF on the 45MP body? Come on, ridiculous from the start. Plus they still had the silly thing where the X version goes to the high MP body that has nothing to do with the 7D when Canon says X means cross between (ala 7D+5D2).

So if you want to send in fake rumors and make a big splash at least try to be logical about what specs and which name goes with what....

(OTOH, ridiculous spec lists like this do make it easy to separate some of the chaff from the wheat.)

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?

I don't understand:

5D was once famous for the first with high MP
5DII exactly the same
5DIII would then normally be high MP as well

1DX merges full frame with high fps
You would expect 5DX to do the same: combine ff and high fps

Based on rumors they would do the opposite: not logical to me...

PS: like these specs much less than the previous ones

Exactly, whatever jokers constantly try to feed in fake specs lists for god knows what reason aren't even trying (although I guess that is sort of a good thing since it makes most of them so easy to blow off as garbage).

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?

When the 7D arrived, many people I know wanted the 19 point AF of the 7D for their 5D II. Thus Canon would deliver what a lot of people asked for. The AF is one of the main points to make the 5D III different from the 1Dx. That's why I think that such a 19 point AF is more likely than some version of the 1Dx 61 point AF.

Yes, people asked for that.... THREE years ago. At this point in time, and needing to last until 2015 or so, 7D AF in it would be lame, especially since the center point arguably isn't even as good as the one in the 5D2 for some things!

 

[kpk1]

The 5D III (or 5Ds) should be the studio/landscape cam. That was the 5D line designed for. An AF with less then 19 points is logical.
A 5D X should be the sportier version: a 22-26 mpx, better AF (19 cross points or 1Ds3 AF dunno) and better ISO.
I worte it many times, even if they put 61 points AF in this body from the 1D X they can put big limitations in other aspects, and there you have two roads for both lines. Think at the buffer, or fps, or the advanced menu for the AF. They can enable limits in every aspect.
Canon's strategy with 3 FF bodies it's flexible than Nikon's. Nikon doesn't have a D4 sensor in a D800 body.

 

[jdavis37]

Rumor discussions are alrways interesting to see the posts between those who want more advancement than Canon will provide and those who will rationalize whatever decision Canon will make. Not sure where I sit in those 2 instances.

I have a 7D that I am overall happy with. That said, in recent years Nikon has shown it is possible to build a $3000 USD camera body with many of the advanced features of the flagship. The D800 departs somewhat in that is has 36+ MP versus the D4's 16 but shares many other things. If it could deliver 6 fps I might be giving it some thought though I don't have to have that many MP's.

At some point Canon hopefully will get the 5D bodies on same playing field as the D700/800. A 7D AF system would be "ok" but definitely would be disappointing at this point on time. My biggest complaint about my 7D AF is the inability to spot meter off any Af point except for the center. I doubt we'll see majoy advancements in terms of improved IS)/detail balances in crop sensors anytime soon. Comparing the Nikon D7000 directly against the 7D shows little if any real differences leading me to believe going with bigger glass and 20-26 MP in a FF sensor is where I will get the clean detailed good DR ISO1600 I'd like for shooting birds. I can give up pixel density and shoot with longer glass as long as the PQ improves. My 7D is pretty decent there but if I am to drop $3K I want a real improvement.

At same time i'd like to see Canon more like Nikon in the AF department. I certainly do not expect a 5D at $3K to be 8 fps but 5 or 6 would be nice. A slightly dumbed down 1D-X or even a MkIV AF would be good. A 7D type system IF the sensor were simply GREAT might be acceptable but the world is round and competition via Nikon suggests a better AF should be expected.

I do not expect a near 1D-X for $3K. The X is for a different type of shooter. But a 5D MkIII whose ISO is perhaps not any better than the D800 with an AF like the 7D would be a failure in my opinion. Am hoping Canon gets back to the 20D days where it produced a body that said " Buy Me I'm worth it" compared to competition. This time the competition for me is my 7D. I would love a 5DMKIII with 1d LIKE AF even if MkIV or a slower 1D_X and a truly useable ISO1600 for capturing bird feathers without loss of detail or color. Will be watching! And no I am not threatening to jump off the cliff to buy nikon. If Canon does not produce something a lot better I'll happily continue with my 7D and save for the 200-400F4L! My 5 cents worth on this one

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The D800 departs somewhat in that is has 36+ MP versus the D4's 16 but shares many other things. If it could deliver 6 fps I might be giving it some thought though I don't have to have that many MP's.

It does. It is 4fps in FF mode. 5fps in 1.2x crop mode. And, with grip, 6fps in DX 1.5x crop mode.

 

[moreorless]

It would seem to make more sense for the rumoured 22MP body to have some kind of 1Dish AF system considering the rest of its specs are reasonabley similar to that line.

A high megapixel body seems like it would be aimed mostly at landscape and studio use though so does it really need the same AF system? a smaller number of widely spaced and accurate rather than fast points seems like it would be better suited to such a camera.

 

[marekjoz]

I still think the final MP count (so the resolution) will be somehow linked to video capabilites. As in 5d2 and 7d what they get from sensor is not quite HD, so now I think they'd like to give more quality having some less PP computing power used. So they could maybe get closer to 60 fps. It would probably require some integer miltiplier of 1080 when talking about vertical sensor resolution. What they could make would be cropping some FF surface to some known equivalent like aps-h or aps-c. Therefore 45MP seems quite fine for me as it would allow to take 4k video from each second line of image cropped to aps-h (like mentioned on picture from exhibition). 28MP ot the other hand is also sweet as it allows to achieve 4k video from FF taking each second line.

 

[c-law]

Ever since the rumours of the 5D split and the announcement of the 1Dx there have been rumours of their split being a 5D Mark III and a 5Dx. The rumours have always tended towards these type of specs with the III being a lower MP and the X being the high MP beast. That never made sense to me as the Mark II impressed so much on the photography front by being a high MP FF that rivalled the 1Ds and the X was emphasised as keeping the MP low for amazing IQ.

So it seems to me that in the world of fake rumours, people have just been building on other fake rumours whenever they release specs like these.

If I see specs that have a high MP studio cam called the Mark III and a what we have all assumed would be the 3D in a 5Dx then I might start thinking it's real.

Chris

 

[windscmoon]

Hum,I just wanna say,as a canon fan from China ,I read every piece of news about the successor of 5d2 at Chinese websites for 2 years.What I should say is every (yes,I said every)news was copyed and translated from aboard.Our webs do not have any source can bring us fresh and independent news. So do not trust them.I rank this for CR0.

Haha, well said! What's ur id in xitek?

I am a member of xitek.but rare to reply or post on that board.just read.

 

[jdavis37]

The D800 departs somewhat in that is has 36+ MP versus the D4's 16 but shares many other things. If it could deliver 6 fps I might be giving it some thought though I don't have to have that many MP's.

It does. It is 4fps in FF mode. 5fps in 1.2x crop mode. And, with grip, 6fps in DX 1.5x crop mode.

Not exactly what I meant but worth noting I'll watch both the D800 and whatever body or bodies Canon coes out with interest. The D800 certainly has enough pixels to make the crop aspects of telephoto work. But I'll need to see clean ISO1600 shots with feather detail before I believe it! While a 22MP FF sensor will be lacking in pixel density (assuming that rumor is true though I have a hard time believing Canon will essentially not be adding any pixels ) I can get bigger glass if need be especially if the higher ISO ( meaning ISO1600.. with my 7D and birds I rarely go above ISO400 ). It wil be interesting.. but if the rumors suggesting it will have the 1D-X AF, 22 MP and 6.9 fps are true, did Canon just do the D700 to itself? Unless you really NEED 12 fps why not buy the 5D in that case for less than half the price? Just not seeing Canon suddenly pulling a Nikon. Even Nikon this time did not pull a Nikon ( D700 versus D800)! If they do, however, I'll be very inclined to buy one! Especially if I can spot meter using any Af sensor location!

 

[pj1974]

Hi friends,

I have been following various discussions of a possible'new' FF (eg 5DX/5DIII/5Ds/3D) on these forums and in other places for some time, and have found it interesting seeing the various opinions and speculations presented.

Amidst all the 'information and rumour' overload... there have been a few posts in this particular thread that I think are particularly logical - and applause duly given to those 8)

I do not think Canon will be going down the route of developing and selling 2 cameras under the 5D line. I think their branding department want to maintain an emphasis on different camera names with an intended target market.

So I believe there might be a 3D in some of the rumours / information we've seen floating over the last while. I believe a 3D will be marketed as a camera that can do anything a 5D can do, but somewhat better in every regard.

In this post, I provide my take (in summary) on what could constitute the whole of a future Canon lineup, under the APS-C and FF tiers / sensor size categories. I'm predicting the next model of each camera body / line, except for the 1DX which hasn't hit the shelves yet. Within my list, I'll provide my take on the possible equivalent of a 5DmkII replacement, which I'm calling the 5DmkIII, though it could also be called the 5DX (same for the possibility of a '7DX'). I have given a name to each line ('in brackets'), that I think defines the branding strategy and focus Canon has had for each line over recent years.

I'm not including all features of each camera- even though I might have a projection and guess for these. That is I won't list the following in my comparisons below: display size / resolution / type, ISO range, exposure or metering details, live view, video details, memory type, CPU # or type/s, flash details, body size.

Note that comparisons between APS-C and FF should not be made. People who do not understand the real differences between APS-C and FF cameras / sensor sizes will consider APS-C to be 'non pro' and FF to be 'pro'. :

Read from the top down to make sense of the list. That is, comparisons of 'better' / 'more', etc refer to the model directly above. In general, the handling and features of the respective bodies will get progressively superior in each tier (APS-C and FF) - which can be noted by aspects such as (any) weather sealing, quality of optical view finder (OVF), buttons, features and customisation.


APS-C
- 1200D ('budget') 12MP 3fps. Basic 9pt AF & budget sensor. Smallest body & OVF.
- 650D ('consumer') 18MP 4fps. 9pt with cross-type & better sensor. Better display & OVF.
- 70D ('amateur') 18MP 6fps. 9pt AF with more cross-type AF pts. Better body & OVF.
- 7DmkII ('prosumer') 22MP 8fps. 19pt AF, cross-type AF pts. Best APS-C body & OVF.


FF
- 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.
- 3D ('premium') 34MP 8fps. 45 AF, many cross-type and extra sensitivity AF pts. Better body.
- 1DX ('professional') 18MP 14fps. 61AF. Full professional body. Highest connectivity and feature set.


The main marketed differentiation between the 5D line and the 3D line will be on the sensor, with the focus for the 5D line being on low noise and great DR, whereas the 3D marketing focus will emphasize resolution, advanced features and body quality. Both 5D line and 3D line will require a separate grip. The most difficult name to attribute to any of these cameras, was the (hypothetical) 3D... I had also considered the following words "advanced / elite / deluxe / superior / expert / high-end" before deciding on 'premium'. ;D

I expect the eventual (street) price of the 5DMkIII will be about $3,000 Euro / AUD / USD or about 2000 GBP, though the initial RRP might be a bit higher.
In comparison, if a 3D line does come out, I expect it to have a price of about $5,000 Euro / AUD / USD or about 3500 GBP, again though - the initial RRP might be a bit higher.
The 1DX has been marketed as the 'super fast, powerful AF' that photo-journalists and professional sports photographers demand, with connectivity options indicating a 'on the fly' environment for the target market. The 1DX's sensor will probably be Canon's lowest noise / highest dynamic range sensor for some time - given the relatively low MP for a FF.

FYI, I have the Canon 7D and 350D camera bodies, and a number of lenses, including the 15-85mm USM IS, 70-300mm L USM IS, 100mm USM macro and Sigma 10-20mm HSM EX. In my humble opinion, the number of quality Canon EF-S lenses (eg 17-55mm, 10-22mm, 15-85mm, 60mm macro) indicates their commitment to continue developing and producing the 'amateur' and 'prosumer' camera body lines for some time yet, with APS-C sensors continuing to offer a broad spectrum of photographers a good balance in terms of flexibility, quality and size. The APS-C tier fits between P&S / mirrorless cameras and FF.

My take on the future above, is purely derived from a personal analytical perspective. I have a marketing degree and working background, but have no insider knowledge from Canon. I don't believe that we'll see the return of APS-H sensors. Part of what I've written above might be hypothetical, but I'll be curious to see in the future how many of these I got 'close' or even 'spot on'!

I look forward to your comments.

Paul

 

[spidyhero]

FF
- 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.
- 3D ('premium') 34MP 8fps. 45 AF, many cross-type and extra sensitivity AF pts. Better body.
- 1DX ('professional') 18MP 14fps. 61AF. Full professional body. Highest connectivity and feature set.


The main marketed differentiation between the 5D line and the 3D line will be on the sensor, with the focus for the 5D line being on low noise and great DR, whereas the 3D marketing focus will emphasize resolution, advanced features and body quality.

Paul

Reasoning on market segment, IMHO the 5DIII should lure those that own the 5DII (they are a nice segment in dimension), making them update to the newer, as much as those looking for an all around professional camera less expensive than the 1DX.

The high framerate on a high resolution sensor camera has a reason if you don't split the line (as Nikon is doing with the D800).

If Canon is planning to split the 5D line, the high framerate should go to the lower-res camera (as a feature for general purpose shooter).

The high-res camera should be addressed to studio professionals or resolution addicted amateurs (they don't see high framerate as a big selling point) and bring a higher cost in comparison.

If you also take account of what the video enthusiasts are expecting, they don't need a higher megapixel camera, but a better Dynamic Range sensor for sure (as much as some video oriented new features).

So if you push on the DR feature, you must lower the pixel count and increase pixel dimension.

Canon can do the split since it is a mammoth company with a huge R&D dept. in comparison to Nikon (using Sony made sensors on proprietary specs), and it also makes sense on a usage-driven market segment (photo vs. video).

This is only speculation, of course, keep it with a grain of salt because we don't know all the photo-video Canon market numbers.

But also keep for sure that if a disruptive innovation has to be made for a product (the Canon 5D), it should be Canon itself to do it, because it opens new markets, don't cannibalize the existing one (think to the Apple iPhone 's new models development path).

 

[jdavis37]

APS-C
- 1200D ('budget') 12MP 3fps. Basic 9pt AF & budget sensor. Smallest body & OVF.
- 650D ('consumer') 18MP 4fps. 9pt with cross-type & better sensor. Better display & OVF.
- 70D ('amateur') 18MP 6fps. 9pt AF with more cross-type AF pts. Better body & OVF.
- 7DmkII ('prosumer') 22MP 8fps. 19pt AF, cross-type AF pts. Best APS-C body & OVF.


FF
- 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.
- 3D ('premium') 34MP 8fps. 45 AF, many cross-type and extra sensitivity AF pts. Better body.
- 1DX ('professional') 18MP 14fps. 61AF. Full professional body. Highest connectivity and feature set.

If the 5DMkIII is as you suggest it would match Canon's marketing from the past quite well. Let's compare what $3K brings us:

Nikon D800 - 36.3 MP, 4 fps ( up to 6 fps in DX mode), Nikon's best AF, fully sealed
Proposed 5D3 - 26 MP, AF inferior to even 7D's, and 5 fps

Now unless Canon does something magical with their sensor (something they have not done in some time now ) WHY would the average person buy the Canon except for already owning Canon glass? I've shot Canon gear since 1980 but am not a loyalist nor do I jump camps at a whim (obviously).

At some point though Canon has to step up and at least TRY to match what Nikon is doing, or at least come close to matching them.

I am at an end with buying crop sensors (currently using 7D,,, good camera, like it, but noise above ISO400 is tough on bird feathers ). I'm ok with buying bigger glass to replace the crop. But there is no way I would pay $3K to have an AF worse than my 7D.

This is like ESPN's "Come On MAAN" routine.

I prefer the rumors of a 1D MkIV AF or slightly dumbed down 1D-X Af, 5 to 6 fps and 22 MP for the next 5D. But I fear they will deliver something closer to what Paul is suggesting here. I also hope the rumors of the 1D-X MAYBE adding F8 Af ability is true. D800 and D4 both offer that.

Will be interesting to see if Canon steps up or if they continue to preserve the flagship at all costs, avoiding what Nikon did with the D3/D700 ( where D700 was a much cheaper option, add grip and almost a D3).

But Canon continues to do their marketing as they have and perhaps A D4+ 200-400F4 + 1.7X TC is an option.. hate to suggest it but who knows.

 

[briansquibb]

- 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.

Cant see them developing an inferior AF wihen they already have the 45 point 1d4/1ds3 AF sitting in the parts bin waiting to be fitted

 

[marekjoz]

(...)

(...)WHY would the average person buy the Canon except for already owning Canon glass? (...)

This is NOT gear for average person. It's enough that pictures will lok better on Canon and those who know what and why they spend theit money will not look for rough numbers from specification.

 

[DzPhotography]

Just one question. Why are the specs striked through? Because they're not believable nor correct?

 

[JoeBoe19]

Just one question. Why are the specs striked through? Because they're not believable nor correct?

good question - it makes it look like they have been deemed completely impossible.

 

[pj1974]

FF
- 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.
- 3D ('premium') 34MP 8fps. 45 AF, many cross-type and extra sensitivity AF pts. Better body.

If the 5DMkIII is as you suggest it would match Canon's marketing from the past quite well. Let's compare what $3K brings us:

Nikon D800 - 36.3 MP, 4 fps ( up to 6 fps in DX mode), Nikon's best AF, fully sealed
Proposed 5D3 - 26 MP, AF inferior to even 7D's, and 5 fps

Now unless Canon does something magical with their sensor (something they have not done in some time now ) WHY would the average person buy the Canon except for already owning Canon glass? I've shot Canon gear since 1980 but am not a loyalist nor do I jump camps at a whim (obviously).

At some point though Canon has to step up and at least TRY to match what Nikon is doing, or at least come close to matching them.

I am at an end with buying crop sensors (currently using 7D,,, good camera, like it, but noise above ISO400 is tough on bird feathers ). I'm ok with buying bigger glass to replace the crop. But there is no way I would pay $3K to have an AF worse than my 7D.

This is like ESPN's "Come On MAAN" routine.

I prefer the rumors of a 1D MkIV AF or slightly dumbed down 1D-X Af, 5 to 6 fps and 22 MP for the next 5D. But I fear they will deliver something closer to what Paul is suggesting here. I also hope the rumors of the 1D-X MAYBE adding F8 Af ability is true. D800 and D4 both offer that.

Will be interesting to see if Canon steps up or if they continue to preserve the flagship at all costs, avoiding what Nikon did with the D3/D700 ( where D700 was a much cheaper option, add grip and almost a D3).

But Canon continues to do their marketing as they have and perhaps A D4+ 200-400F4 + 1.7X TC is an option.. hate to suggest it but who knows.

Thanks jdavis37 for your reply and thoughts.

I agree with you, that the Nikon D800 offers a lot of bang for the buck, and on paper it appears to be an impressive camera. With the 5DmkIII (or whatever the 5DmkII successor will be called), I think Canon will be targetting a lot of those already with Canon glass - and many of these will have significant glass already. So if the price of 5DmkIII and D800 are close, I think they are going to differentiate on 'you're with us already' - not expecting many people to switch because they have lenses they don't want to part with, and a system that 'works' for the photographer already.

Perhaps Canon will have a sensor in the 5DmkIII that will be very good in terms of low (clean) noise at all ISOs, high DR and is very sharp per pixel definition, and they'll be encouraging people to either upgrade from APS-C or 5D / 5DmkII. If Canon do go the '5D line and 3D line' for FF below the 1D line, I think they'll 'aim' the 5D just below Nikon's D800, and the 3D significantly above the D800 (even if the prices don't fully reflect that). Canon will have done their research on that, and my understanding is that they make most of their profits and 'gain customers' via the APS-C cameras, first... then migrating them up to FF.

I find the 7D's AF to be very good for what it is. The flexibility of the cross-type AF points location (for composition) and working well (ie focussing reliably and accurately), even in relatively dim light I'm happy with. Obviously I'd like to have a superior system (eg ability to focus in even lower light, perhaps even quicker AF response), but I think it is very powerful - and I've seen many experienced photographers really like it for action shots (eg sports, birds in flight, etc). The 7D noise is certainly an area they can improve on (and I hope they do for the 7DmkII). Though for critical applications I select as low an ISO as I can, and post processing does often remove noise while preserving decent detail well - though of course not at the higher end ISOs.

The 3D I think will be aimed at those who need more speed and better AF than the 5DmkIII, whereas the 5DmkIII will have better AF than the 5DmkII, and be aimed at the 'more budget conscious studio / landscape photographer' after very high image quality, without getting anywhere near the $5k for 'just the body'. Similarly to the APS-C lines of cameras, I think any 3D will be developed to 'do everything better than the 5D line' - just as the 7D does everything better than the 60D, and in turn the 60D currently do everything better than the 600D (build quality, AF, features, etc). The sensor is the minor differentiation here. The Canon 200-400mm with built in 1.4 TC will be a lens that many with the 3D will 'want'. I do think it's a 'shame' the 1DX doesn't have AF f8 capability, and not sure if Canon is perhaps looking to change this via another FF that can AF @ F8, or via firmware.

jdavis37, I hope that Canon will surprise us with their next release of camera bodies. In many aspects, Nikon has upped the ante in recent years, though I still prefer Canon's bodies, colours and definitely most lenses (and lens breadth / quality, though of course both have many very good lenses). Let's see where this goes. I'm still very keenly looking forward to the image quality that is going to come from the FF 1DX 18MP.... hoping that it is something of a huge revolution in image quality - ie out of this world even compared to the 5DmkIII. Not that I am planning to buy that camera..... even though I have currently the 'spare funds to'.

But I do believe Canon have seen what Sony's sensors have been like, and in response Canon has been doing a lot of work (R&D) on their sensors, that hopefully will trickle through as improvements in quality to all their next released models.

Regards....

Paul