buying suggestion: a 5D3 or 1Dx?

[Loswr]

I've never had wobbly issues with a gripped 5D3. Pretty much any time I've needed to use a tripod with it, the lens had it's own foot so an extra 3K to solve a wobbly issue is pretty much busted.

That explains not having an issue with the accessory grip-body instability. Put a grip on, grab the body and the grip, and you'll feel the flex. Flex = vibration...in some circumstances, in the same way that the mirror vibration is only a problem at some shutter speeds.

The shutter was so loud that unless I was using it on my 600, anything around me that I waited for to approach immediately flew way when the shutter went off. I guess if you are shooting from a car or boat or in an otherwise noisy area it would probably be ok. Not predominately where I shoot from.

Maybe different wildlife where you are, but as I stated, I've never had any wildlife/birds scared off with the 1D X shutter (although I've startled a few kids at school events!). I have never shot wildlife from a car or a boat with my 1D X (or any dSLR, for that matter), always hiking/walking in the field. I also don't use blinds, it's just fieldcraft and sometimes dumb luck.

On the loaners I could only get about two days worth of shooting before the battery was down to 25% and I generally dont go out on a shoot with a 25% full battery unless I have a spare. The 5DIII gets me about 3 or 4 days and with the grip It's about a week and half before I feel the need to charge them. Again that could have been due to the CPS loaner but that was my experience.

I wonder if part of that is muscle memory. You're used to holding down the shutter down for a certain period of time, and with double the frame rate you get double the shots. Shooting style also plays a role when looking at the CIPA standard tests - I regularly get 2-3x the rated number of shots, with the 1D X as with my previous LP-E6-using bodies.

You all may like it because you all are pixel peepers but I looked at it from a system standpoint and what I needed was not a machine gun. I was VERY glad I chose the 5D3 and never even second guessed my decision.

So dash2k8, you will find that many 1DX owners will try to justify their expensive purchase any way they can. I can tell you unless you are shooting sports action full time, you don't need the 1DX. The 5D3 will give you more for less.

Different people have different needs. It's not about 'justifying an expensive purchase', any more than it's about justifying an inability or unwillingness to spend an extra few thousand dollars. It's about getting the camera that best meets your needs. For a wedding shooter, the 5DIII would be a better choice. For the OP's needs, that's probably true as well. For someone who shoots a wide variety of subjects from still to fast, shoots in inclement weather, needs the more robust possible build quality, etc., the 1D X may be a better choice, budget permitting.

 

[FTb-n]

I have real issues with using cameras without a viewfinder. Hoping that somewhere along the way they work on an integrated EVF. Live view solutions just dont cut it. I have an iphone for that.

+1.

I have an S100 and G16, both good cameras in their element, but I don't like shooting by looking at the back of the camera. I know, the G16 has a viewfinder...sort of. But, mirrorless without an EVF that can match that of an SLR is a non-starter for me.

 

[StudentOfLight]

Doesn't sound like you need an action camera, 5D-III will get the job done just pack a spare battery if you're gonna be shooting whole day. New stuff is on the way so I'd rather save my money for that.

 

[tapanit]

I've never had any wildlife/birds scared off with the 1D X shutter (although I've startled a few kids at school events!). I have never shot wildlife from a car or a boat with my 1D X (or any dSLR, for that matter), always hiking/walking in the field. I also don't use blinds

I'm not surprised. Shooting from a blind is precisely when noise matters. If you're walking and the birds &c have already seen you, they won't be startled by shutter sound.

 

[meywd]

I've never had any wildlife/birds scared off with the 1D X shutter (although I've startled a few kids at school events!). I have never shot wildlife from a car or a boat with my 1D X (or any dSLR, for that matter), always hiking/walking in the field. I also don't use blinds

I'm not surprised. Shooting from a blind is precisely when noise matters. If you're walking and the birds &c have already seen you, they won't be startled by shutter sound.

Forget 1D X, i was hiding between trees and a small bird walked near me, one shot with the 600D and he ran away.

 

[East Wind Photography]

So again I've never had a wobble or flex issue. If the grip screw is tight it's as solid as the 1dx in my opinion. Obviously if the screw is loose then it can cause a problem. You also have the option of removing the grip which buys you clearance when using a large tele on a gimbal mount and saves on weight when on extended hikes.

Onto the battery front, you claim to get 2x-3x the battery life of an e6 based camera. That would put the 1dx to about 2000 to 3000 shots per charge and that's pretty absurd. You can extend the life by turning of image preview and not chimping but you still won't get 3000 shots per charge. Probobly not even half that. I can regularly get close to 1000 on one e6 with the 5d3 and close to double that with the grip and two batteries.

I've never had wobbly issues with a gripped 5D3. Pretty much any time I've needed to use a tripod with it, the lens had it's own foot so an extra 3K to solve a wobbly issue is pretty much busted.

That explains not having an issue with the accessory grip-body instability. Put a grip on, grab the body and the grip, and you'll feel the flex. Flex = vibration...in some circumstances, in the same way that the mirror vibration is only a problem at some shutter speeds.

The shutter was so loud that unless I was using it on my 600, anything around me that I waited for to approach immediately flew way when the shutter went off. I guess if you are shooting from a car or boat or in an otherwise noisy area it would probably be ok. Not predominately where I shoot from.

Maybe different wildlife where you are, but as I stated, I've never had any wildlife/birds scared off with the 1D X shutter (although I've startled a few kids at school events!). I have never shot wildlife from a car or a boat with my 1D X (or any dSLR, for that matter), always hiking/walking in the field. I also don't use blinds, it's just fieldcraft and sometimes dumb luck.

On the loaners I could only get about two days worth of shooting before the battery was down to 25% and I generally dont go out on a shoot with a 25% full battery unless I have a spare. The 5DIII gets me about 3 or 4 days and with the grip It's about a week and half before I feel the need to charge them. Again that could have been due to the CPS loaner but that was my experience.

I wonder if part of that is muscle memory. You're used to holding down the shutter down for a certain period of time, and with double the frame rate you get double the shots. Shooting style also plays a role when looking at the CIPA standard tests - I regularly get 2-3x the rated number of shots, with the 1D X as with my previous LP-E6-using bodies.

You all may like it because you all are pixel peepers but I looked at it from a system standpoint and what I needed was not a machine gun. I was VERY glad I chose the 5D3 and never even second guessed my decision.

So dash2k8, you will find that many 1DX owners will try to justify their expensive purchase any way they can. I can tell you unless you are shooting sports action full time, you don't need the 1DX. The 5D3 will give you more for less.

Different people have different needs. It's not about 'justifying an expensive purchase', any more than it's about justifying an inability or unwillingness to spend an extra few thousand dollars. It's about getting the camera that best meets your needs. For a wedding shooter, the 5DIII would be a better choice. For the OP's needs, that's probably true as well. For someone who shoots a wide variety of subjects from still to fast, shoots in inclement weather, needs the more robust possible build quality, etc., the 1D X may be a better choice, budget permitting.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

I've never had any wildlife/birds scared off with the 1D X shutter (although I've startled a few kids at school events!). I have never shot wildlife from a car or a boat with my 1D X (or any dSLR, for that matter), always hiking/walking in the field. I also don't use blinds

I'm not surprised. Shooting from a blind is precisely when noise matters. If you're walking and the birds &c have already seen you, they won't be startled by shutter sound.

I mainly shoot from blinds/hides (wooden hides make a great sounding board for a tripod mounted 1DX!) even Kingfishers ignore me at 7 meters or so. At a hide where I often photograph songbirds, I have to use extension tubes to reduce my lenses 6 meter MFD, I am ignored as well.
I normally shoot between 1 and 3 frames at a time but will let rip if it looks like something interesting is going to happen and have yet to have an issue.
As previously stated I think the 5D3 is a better bet for the OP's needs, but not mine.

 

[Mario]

I also shoot mainly from hides, often small songbirds. I have a hide in my garden where I am sitting at 5 m (5.5 yards) from the birds. Great tits and blue tits aren't bothered by the 1DX shutter (although they were the first 2 days or so when I started using the 1DX instead of the 5DIII but got used to it very rapidly). But robins, finches, jays, ... they are scared away by the 1DX shutter most of the time.

Kingfishers (in another hide, distance is probably around 7 meters / 8 yards) don't seem to care too much about the 1DX shutter although they seem more alert.

For BIF's it's of course a non-issue.

Mario
http://severi.be/en
https://www.facebook.com/photographymarioseveri?ref=hl

 

[sublime LightWorks]

I have both the 5D3 and the 1DX. I use the 1DX 90% of the time and not because I shoot lots of sports, etc. It just produces a better image. Its that simple. The images are better out of the camera.

I'm selling my 5D3 (with battery grip and extra battery) and putting the funds aside to use for the big megapixel Canon, should it ever appear.

-Bob

 

[Loswr]

So again I've never had a wobble or flex issue. If the grip screw is tight it's as solid as the 1dx in my opinion. Obviously if the screw is loose then it can cause a problem. You also have the option of removing the grip which buys you clearance when using a large tele on a gimbal mount and saves on weight when on extended hikes.

So, it's your opinion that two separate pieces held together by one central, hand-tightened thumbscrew is as solid as a single, integrated piece of metal? Ok, you're certainly welcome to your opinion...even if all anyone has to do to demonstrate the opposite is attach an accessory grip 'securely', then hold grip in one hand and body in the other and feel the flex. It might not be a problem for you (you stated your tripod use is primarily with collared lenses), but the flex with an accessory grip that isn't present with the integrated grip of a 1-series dSLR is simply an engineering fact.

Oh, and be careful not to over-tighten that grip thumbscrew. Not sure about the 5DIII, but both the 7D and 5DII Canon grips were prone to stripping out if over-tightened, meaning a permanently attached grip (or a trip to Canon service).

Onto the battery front, you claim to get 2x-3x the battery life of an e6 based camera. That would put the 1dx to about 2000 to 3000 shots per charge and that's pretty absurd. You can extend the life by turning of image preview and not chimping but you still won't get 3000 shots per charge. Probobly not even half that.

Actually, what I intended to be claiming was that I often get 2-3x the CIPA standard rating for my 1D X, and I used to get 2-3x the CIPA rating for my 7D and 5DII; looking back, I have to apologize for the ambiguous wording. Still, it's true that I get 2-3K shots (sometimes more) on a fully charged LP-E4N in my 1D X. Maybe you didn't get more than 1-1.5K shots on a battery in your CPS loaner experience. As I stated, a lot depends on usage patterns.

What's absurd is the suggestion that I can't read and understand the battery info screen on my own camera. When shooting primarily bursts or shooting rapidly in succession when doing a round of AFMA on my lenses, I've had >2,000 shots on the battery with 60-70% of its capacity remaining. Thanks for sharing another of your opinions, but this one is wrong, too.

 

[East Wind Photography]

So again I've never had a wobble or flex issue. If the grip screw is tight it's as solid as the 1dx in my opinion. Obviously if the screw is loose then it can cause a problem. You also have the option of removing the grip which buys you clearance when using a large tele on a gimbal mount and saves on weight when on extended hikes.

So, it's your opinion that two separate pieces held together by one central, hand-tightened thumbscrew is as solid as a single, integrated piece of metal? Ok, you're certainly welcome to your opinion...even if all anyone has to do to demonstrate the opposite is attach an accessory grip 'securely', then hold grip in one hand and body in the other and feel the flex. It might not be a problem for you (you stated your tripod use is primarily with collared lenses), but the flex with an accessory grip that isn't present with the integrated grip of a 1-series dSLR is simply an engineering fact.

Oh, and be careful not to over-tighten that grip thumbscrew. Not sure about the 5DIII, but both the 7D and 5DII Canon grips were prone to stripping out if over-tightened, meaning a permanently attached grip (or a trip to Canon service).

Onto the battery front, you claim to get 2x-3x the battery life of an e6 based camera. That would put the 1dx to about 2000 to 3000 shots per charge and that's pretty absurd. You can extend the life by turning of image preview and not chimping but you still won't get 3000 shots per charge. Probobly not even half that.

Actually, what I intended to be claiming was that I often get 2-3x the CIPA standard rating for my 1D X, and I used to get 2-3x the CIPA rating for my 7D and 5DII; looking back, I have to apologize for the ambiguous wording. Still, it's true that I get 2-3K shots (sometimes more) on a fully charged LP-E4N in my 1D X. Maybe you didn't get more than 1-1.5K shots on a battery in your CPS loaner experience. As I stated, a lot depends on usage patterns.

What's absurd is the suggestion that I can't read and understand the battery info screen on my own camera. When shooting primarily bursts or shooting rapidly in succession when doing a round of AFMA on my lenses, I've had >2,000 shots on the battery with 60-70% of its capacity remaining. Thanks for sharing another of your opinions, but this one is wrong, too.

:

 

[Deleted member 91053]

So again I've never had a wobble or flex issue. If the grip screw is tight it's as solid as the 1dx in my opinion. Obviously if the screw is loose then it can cause a problem. You also have the option of removing the grip which buys you clearance when using a large tele on a gimbal mount and saves on weight when on extended hikes.

So, it's your opinion that two separate pieces held together by one central, hand-tightened thumbscrew is as solid as a single, integrated piece of metal? Ok, you're certainly welcome to your opinion...even if all anyone has to do to demonstrate the opposite is attach an accessory grip 'securely', then hold grip in one hand and body in the other and feel the flex. It might not be a problem for you (you stated your tripod use is primarily with collared lenses), but the flex with an accessory grip that isn't present with the integrated grip of a 1-series dSLR is simply an engineering fact.

Oh, and be careful not to over-tighten that grip thumbscrew. Not sure about the 5DIII, but both the 7D and 5DII Canon grips were prone to stripping out if over-tightened, meaning a permanently attached grip (or a trip to Canon service).

Onto the battery front, you claim to get 2x-3x the battery life of an e6 based camera. That would put the 1dx to about 2000 to 3000 shots per charge and that's pretty absurd. You can extend the life by turning of image preview and not chimping but you still won't get 3000 shots per charge. Probobly not even half that.

Actually, what I intended to be claiming was that I often get 2-3x the CIPA standard rating for my 1D X, and I used to get 2-3x the CIPA rating for my 7D and 5DII; looking back, I have to apologize for the ambiguous wording. Still, it's true that I get 2-3K shots (sometimes more) on a fully charged LP-E4N in my 1D X. Maybe you didn't get more than 1-1.5K shots on a battery in your CPS loaner experience. As I stated, a lot depends on usage patterns.

What's absurd is the suggestion that I can't read and understand the battery info screen on my own camera. When shooting primarily bursts or shooting rapidly in succession when doing a round of AFMA on my lenses, I've had >2,000 shots on the battery with 60-70% of its capacity remaining. Thanks for sharing another of your opinions, but this one is wrong, too.

:

Don't quite get the "Roll Eyes" post.
A few friends of mine bought Canon Battery Grips for various Canon cameras, all of them showed considerable flex and one died 1 month outside guarantee. I can't speak for the reliability of the others as I haven't seen any of them using a battery grip for some time - does that tell you something? It speaks loudly to me.

As to battery life I shot the Weston Super Mare Air Show back in September and, just checked the folder, 2437 frames left 2 bars on the battery meter. That was with my old LP-E4 battery (from my 1D4) in my 1DX - lens was a Canon 300 F2.8 L IS with and without extender. I then used it for a few wildlife shoots (lots of sitting around with the camera on for hours but few shots) and re-charged it when one bar was left. A 5d3 with a LP-E6 is going to better that?
I thought you knew better than to post twoddle like that - ah well I was obviously mistaken, my bad.

 

[sagittariansrock]

Will someone used to the ergonomy of a 1-series body be satisfied with a 5-series body?
I know for a fact that if I had moved to a fictional T9i which had 6.5 fps and 65-point AF (and all other features were better than the 5DIII) I would hate using the Rebel interface.
Try a 5DIII extensively before you go for it. Especially given the awesome discounts on the 1D X I see nowadays.

 

[TexasBadger]

For the purposes you describe, I would recommend the 5D3.

Side note: I was photographing a recording artist inside the sound booth during a recording session with the 5D3 in silent mode. The microphones did not pick it up! Very practical for shooting weddings I would say.

 

[Marsu42]

Will someone used to the ergonomy of a 1-series body be satisfied with a 5-series body?

What ergonomy would that be? A 1d camera might be balanced for big white lenses, but with a smaller fast prime... which leaves the button layout and spacing, but that also depends on taste. And of course of the size of one's hands, but the 1d is a "real man's camera" as digital rev points out on yt

Imho with the 6d, Canon has changed their policy that only large is beautiful, we'll very well see smaller cameras that are sturdy and have good specs in the future. Not to mention mirrorless. If you want large and heavy, you can still add a casing around the camera and put some lead bricks inside.

I know for a fact that if I had moved to a fictional T9i which had 6.5 fps and 65-point AF (and all other features were better than the 5DIII) I would hate using the Rebel interface.

The Rebel interface is designed to be hated used by photogs entering the world of photography and looking for simplicity. If you look for something sensible, look at the xxd line.

 

[dash2k8]

I have both the 5D3 and the 1DX. I use the 1DX 90% of the time and not because I shoot lots of sports, etc. It just produces a better image. Its that simple. The images are better out of the camera.

I'm selling my 5D3 (with battery grip and extra battery) and putting the funds aside to use for the big megapixel Canon, should it ever appear.

-Bob

Thanks Bob for the real-world response. SOOC isn't important to me at all because I post everything. But I can understand if someone covers sports in JPG mode and has to hand off cards to runners every once in a while, SOOC is a must.

BTW, would you be willing to sell your 5D3 to me?

 

[dash2k8]

What ergonomy would that be? A 1d camera might be balanced for big white lenses, but with a smaller fast prime... which leaves the button layout and spacing, but that also depends on taste. And of course of the size of one's hands, but the 1d is a "real man's camera" as digital rev points out on yt

The best body ergonomics I've ever experienced was with the 1v with battery grip. The grip's shutter had a deep recess for the middle finger to go in that helped the grip a lot. Subsequent bodies on 1D and 5D grips have a shallower recess. I wonder why Canon got away from this? I really loved the old design.

As a long-time shooter on 1Ds3, I naturally prefer the "fuller" feel of a 1-series body, but I don't think any of us will stop taking great images because of ergonomics.

 

[Ryan85]

To the op...I've never shot the 1dx but I do shoot weddings and events and the 5d3 is perfect for that imo. It's a great all around camera and for what you're shooting I think you'd be very happy.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Kirk L brackets attach to both the 5D3's strap lug and the BGE-11 grip eliminating most of the flex if that's a concern. I wish the RRS L brackets did that. I've used a wire tie through the lug and the grip a few times but honestly I can't think of a single time that flex has been an issue. There are lots of swell reasons to go with a 1Dx but I don't think reduced grip flex is near the top of the list. I think you will have issues with mis-allignment in the lens mount long before the grip flexes on a tripod. Assuming you are using a heavy lens without a tripod collar. Otherwise hard to imagine any flex at all. I can make it flex if I twist it but that doesn't represent conditions on a tripod.

That seems like a great solution when it's deemed necessary. Honestly if it's a big issue on a tripod, just remove the grip when shooting like that. I've used grips on all of my Dslrs about 5 now. I've never experienced flex that would cause me trouble. Nor have I ever had one fail and I am pretty rough with them using in snow rain and dust. I've only used canon grips so can't speak for cheaper 3rd party grips.

I used my 7d2 w/grip this morning to shoot a concert and having listened to posts in this forum recently I checked carefully the flex that has been claimed and I confirm that there is no flex, no separation, and nothing that would ever force me to remove it or consider upgrading to a 1D series because of that. I seriously don't understand the criticism of flexure with these modern grips. Any lens heavy enough to cause any issues would have its own tripod foot.

Anyway just my 2 cents worth. To each his own.

 

[Loswr]

If there's no flex, the design of the BG-E16 must be radically different than the grips for the 7D and 5DII, and I doubt that's the case. I wonder why Kirk designed a strap lug attachment into their 5DIII L-bracket?

It's not that the connection isn't secure. Heck, I carried the 7D and 5DII on a BR strap via a body plate on the grip for years, upside down with the weight of body and lens on that attachment thumbscrew.

But...the flex is there, and flex means a potential source of vibration on a tripod. In some shooting conditions, that potential effect became a real effect. I'm sure not everyone shoots in conditions where it would matter – that was true for most of my shooting, too...most, but not all.

Is that why I bought the 1D X? Of course not, it's just one more nice thing about it.