buying suggestion: a 5D3 or 1Dx?

[lintoni]

Lol, a reasonable guess at a reason for the v2 firmware for the 7D...

Indeed. I guess the 5DIII was launched later than Canon wanted, too. Likewise, Canon must have planned for the 1D X replacement to be out already. Or, there might be more reasonable reasons for v2 firmware on high-end bodies.

Just out of curiosity, have Canon released a v2 firmware for any of their other bodies, high end or otherwise? Anybody know, off the top of their heads?

That was my point about the 5DIII, which by your logic must have been delayed since the 5DII had a v2 firmware update.

"... by your logic..." is a bit of a jump. Okay, the 5DII had a v2 firmware, which as Marsu pointed out was to do with the video revolution, Canon being unusually fleet-footed in capitalising. Special circumstances...

*edit* ...and the timing of the 7Ds v2, 3 years after the bodies initil release.

 

[dash2k8]

In good light for slow or non moving subjects, the IQ is about the same. Don't get fooled into thinking anything different.

Yeah, I've already established that. My overall message was that with similar final output quality, the 1DX has advantages in faster focusing and slightly better low light performance. Machine-wise, the 1DX is superior, I don't think there's a question about that. I guess many people don't think that these minor advantages are worth 2x the money. Seems the 5D3's silent shutter is the biggest advantage. If the 1DX had a silent mode AND dropped in price, would people still prefer the 5D3? I'm curious.

 

[Loswr]

Lol, a reasonable guess at a reason for the v2 firmware for the 7D...

Indeed. I guess the 5DIII was launched later than Canon wanted, too. Likewise, Canon must have planned for the 1D X replacement to be out already. Or, there might be more reasonable reasons for v2 firmware on high-end bodies.

Just out of curiosity, have Canon released a v2 firmware for any of their other bodies, high end or otherwise? Anybody know, off the top of their heads?

That was my point about the 5DIII, which by your logic must have been delayed since the 5DII had a v2 firmware update.

"... by your logic..." is a bit of a jump. Okay, the 5DII had a v2 firmware, which as Marsu pointed out was to do with the video revolution, Canon being unusually fleet-footed in capitalising. Special circumstances...

*edit* ...and the timing of the 7Ds v2, 3 years after the bodies initil release.

The issue is your assertion that the 7DII was released 'later than Canon wanted'. I suggest they released it exactly when they planned to. Sure, the v2 firmware was likely a tactic to prolong the popularity – and profitability – of the 7D. Smart on Canon's part – release v2 firmware in 2012 to drive more xxD (and xxxD) upgrades, release 70D in 2013, with features nearly on par and better in some respects but worse in others, and discount the 7D to maintain sales and deplete inventories, then launch the 7DII in 2014.

You're suggesting that the 7DII was 'late' with no evidence to support that, compared to Canon's track record of extracting maximum profit from the least possible investment (a strategy that may not sit well with some forum posters, but benefits shareholders).

 

[lintoni]

Lol, a reasonable guess at a reason for the v2 firmware for the 7D...

Indeed. I guess the 5DIII was launched later than Canon wanted, too. Likewise, Canon must have planned for the 1D X replacement to be out already. Or, there might be more reasonable reasons for v2 firmware on high-end bodies.

Just out of curiosity, have Canon released a v2 firmware for any of their other bodies, high end or otherwise? Anybody know, off the top of their heads?

That was my point about the 5DIII, which by your logic must have been delayed since the 5DII had a v2 firmware update.

"... by your logic..." is a bit of a jump. Okay, the 5DII had a v2 firmware, which as Marsu pointed out was to do with the video revolution, Canon being unusually fleet-footed in capitalising. Special circumstances...

*edit* ...and the timing of the 7Ds v2, 3 years after the bodies initil release.

The issue is your assertion that the 7DII was released 'later than Canon wanted'. I suggest they released it exactly when they planned to. Sure, the v2 firmware was likely a tactic to prolong the popularity – and profitability – of the 7D. Smart on Canon's part – release v2 firmware in 2012 to drive more xxD (and xxxD) upgrades, release 70D in 2013, with features nearly on par and better in some respects but worse in others, and discount the 7D to maintain sales and deplete inventories, then launch the 7DII in 2014.

You're suggesting that the 7DII was 'late' with no evidence to support that, compared to Canon's track record of extracting maximum profit from the least possible investment (a strategy that may not sit well with some forum posters, but benefits shareholders).

The issue was your comparing the release cycle of bodies to those of lenses, hut leaving that aside, as you've moved the conversation elsewhere.

Of course I have no evidence, other than the exceptional five year cycle between the 7D and its successor, the v2 firmware release - when, going on previous release cycles (eg 5D) - a replacement camera could have been xpected.

I do not doubt Canon's ability to maximise its profits.

 

[East Wind Photography]

In good light for slow or non moving subjects, the IQ is about the same. Don't get fooled into thinking anything different.

Yeah, I've already established that. My overall message was that with similar final output quality, the 1DX has advantages in faster focusing and slightly better low light performance. Machine-wise, the 1DX is superior, I don't think there's a question about that. I guess many people don't think that these minor advantages are worth 2x the money. Seems the 5D3's silent shutter is the biggest advantage. If the 1DX had a silent mode AND dropped in price, would people still prefer the 5D3? I'm curious.

There are some that prefer a smaller body for certain applications. Weight, gimbal mounting, and mounting to another optical instrument such as microscope or telescope. Often when I am using my 600 f4 on my Wimbley I will remove the grip so I have more verticle reach. I would buy a 1dx if I could justify the added features but I still think in too many applications I would still have to use my 5d3 so it's not on my GAS list yet.

We'll see what canon turns up in the next year or two.

 

[Bennymiata]

I do a number of weddings and events and have used the 5D3 since they were released.
Having the camera in my hand for 16 hours or so at a wedding, the lighter weight is a blessing.

My keeper rate with the 5D3 is around 99%, so I doubt that the better af of the 1D would make much difference to me, but the silent shutter and much lower weight really does make a huge difference to me.

 

[Ryan85]

I do a number of weddings and events and have used the 5D3 since they were released.
Having the camera in my hand for 16 hours or so at a wedding, the lighter weight is a blessing.

My keeper rate with the 5D3 is around 99%, so I doubt that the better af of the 1D would make much difference to me, but the silent shutter and much lower weight really does make a huge difference to me.

+1

 

[Loswr]

The issue was your comparing the release cycle of bodies to those of lenses,

The point of that wasn't the cycles, but the accuracy of rumors...which we've already covered.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

In this instance, it is. A 3 year (approx) cycle on the 5D bodies makes rumours of a new body next year more reasonable than waiting up tp... four... eight years.

In that case, perhaps we should discuss the validity of the 7DII rumors from 2012, three years (approx) after the 7D was released...and the two more years that elapsed prior to the actual announcement of the 7DII. 8)

+1 This is what I was thinking too. You can't plan current purchases based on possible future releases unless the current purchase IS the future purchase. In other words, I never planned to buy the 5DII. I bought a 5D and loved it for 3 years+ while waiting for the 5D3 to be released, tested and proven. I bought the 5DIII 6-8 months after it was released and I was still disappointed in the poor low light AF problem. (So much that I exchanged it for a slight improvement, then I soon bought a 6D.) About 6-8 months later Canon released a firmware update that improved the low light AF issue and the 5D3 is a perfect camera now.

So my point is that you should just buy the camera that is available if you need it now. The 5D3 is time tested, proven and all the kinks have pretty much been worked out now. The 5D4 will likely need time to get the kinks out too. So why be part of the testing? Get a 5D3 now and enjoy a great camera. Plus, the 5D3 can be had for a steal now compared to the price it was at when it was released.

 

[dash2k8]

There are some that prefer a smaller body for certain applications. Weight, gimbal mounting, and mounting to another optical instrument such as microscope or telescope. Often when I am using my 600 f4 on my Wimbley I will remove the grip so I have more verticle reach. I would buy a 1dx if I could justify the added features but I still think in too many applications I would still have to use my 5d3 so it's not on my GAS list yet.

We'll see what canon turns up in the next year or two.

I myself prefer bigger, heavier bodies (maybe I need help?) for the sturdiness they offer. Light cameras aren't for me, so when I get the 5D3 (thx for the recommendation) I'll definitely be adding a grip.

You're right on the gimbal thing: I have a 7D2 on a gimbal and its lightness helps. I can't imagine putting a 1-body on that thing for extended shooting. There are plenty of advantages of smaller, lighter bodies. My own experiences have made me comfortable with big bodies (1v, 1Ds3).

 

[East Wind Photography]

There are some that prefer a smaller body for certain applications. Weight, gimbal mounting, and mounting to another optical instrument such as microscope or telescope. Often when I am using my 600 f4 on my Wimbley I will remove the grip so I have more verticle reach. I would buy a 1dx if I could justify the added features but I still think in too many applications I would still have to use my 5d3 so it's not on my GAS list yet.

We'll see what canon turns up in the next year or two.

I myself prefer bigger, heavier bodies (maybe I need help?) for the sturdiness they offer. Light cameras aren't for me, so when I get the 5D3 (thx for the recommendation) I'll definitely be adding a grip.

You're right on the gimbal thing: I have a 7D2 on a gimbal and its lightness helps. I can't imagine putting a 1-body on that thing for extended shooting. There are plenty of advantages of smaller, lighter bodies. My own experiences have made me comfortable with big bodies (1v, 1Ds3).

At least you get a workout! . The other thing I like about the grip is that in a pinch you can put AA batteries in the AA tray and save the day when all of your other rechargeables are drained. It's only happened to me once on a trip where I did not have a way to charge batteries....but the camp store sold AA's so I was back in business for a while.

You will enjoy the 5d3 probobly as much as you would a 1dx.

 

[Loswr]

Often when I am using my 600 f4 on my Wimbley I will remove the grip so I have more verticle reach.

You're right on the gimbal thing: I have a 7D2 on a gimbal and its lightness helps. I can't imagine putting a 1-body on that thing for extended shooting.

Not sure I get it. I guess it's because of the Wimberley II design? I use a RRS PG-02 LLR side-mount gimbal, as long as I position the 600's barrel over a tripod leg, the body is between the other two legs when going vertically, and I don't think removing a removable grip would matter.

As for the weight of the body, when the load is properly balanced on the gimbal, the whole rig can be easily moved with a fingertip, whether I have my 1D X or my EOS M behind the 600 II.

 

[tpatana]

Often when I am using my 600 f4 on my Wimbley I will remove the grip so I have more verticle reach.

You're right on the gimbal thing: I have a 7D2 on a gimbal and its lightness helps. I can't imagine putting a 1-body on that thing for extended shooting.

Not sure I get it. I guess it's because of the Wimberley II design? I use a RRS PG-02 LLR side-mount gimbal, as long as I position the 600's barrel over a tripod leg, the body is between the other two legs when going vertically, and I don't think removing a removable grip would matter.

As for the weight of the body, when the load is properly balanced on the gimbal, the whole rig can be easily moved with a fingertip, whether I have my 1D X or my EOS M behind the 600 II.

For a moment I was wondering who shoots tennis matches with 600mm fixed...

 

[East Wind Photography]

Often when I am using my 600 f4 on my Wimbley I will remove the grip so I have more verticle reach.

You're right on the gimbal thing: I have a 7D2 on a gimbal and its lightness helps. I can't imagine putting a 1-body on that thing for extended shooting.

Not sure I get it. I guess it's because of the Wimberley II design? I use a RRS PG-02 LLR side-mount gimbal, as long as I position the 600's barrel over a tripod leg, the body is between the other two legs when going vertically, and I don't think removing a removable grip would matter.

As for the weight of the body, when the load is properly balanced on the gimbal, the whole rig can be easily moved with a fingertip, whether I have my 1D X or my EOS M behind the 600 II.

For a moment I was wondering who shoots tennis matches with 600mm fixed...

Those who aren't lucky enough to get a press pass.

 

[dolina]

Often when I am using my 600 f4 on my Wimbley I will remove the grip so I have more verticle reach.

You're right on the gimbal thing: I have a 7D2 on a gimbal and its lightness helps. I can't imagine putting a 1-body on that thing for extended shooting.

Not sure I get it. I guess it's because of the Wimberley II design? I use a RRS PG-02 LLR side-mount gimbal, as long as I position the 600's barrel over a tripod leg, the body is between the other two legs when going vertically, and I don't think removing a removable grip would matter.

As for the weight of the body, when the load is properly balanced on the gimbal, the whole rig can be easily moved with a fingertip, whether I have my 1D X or my EOS M behind the 600 II.

For a moment I was wondering who shoots tennis matches with 600mm fixed...

Those who aren't lucky enough to get a press pass.

It is all about perspective and how tight you want to take the photo.

Sometimes the longer lens positioned further away makes for a better photo than a conventional/predictable/tired angle.

 

[Lnguyen1203]

Late to the party on this thread. I have both 5d3 and 1DX. 1DX has about 1 f stop better ISO than 5D3. For events like wedding and such, 5D3 is much quieter. But you can also put the 1DX in single shot quiet mode. The 5D3 has high speed quiet mode. If I were you, I'd buy the 5D3. Loi

 

[dolina]

7D Mark II as silent continous shooting mode + anti-flickering light feature.

 

[sanj]

Neuro when do you guesstimate 5d4 will be released? I trust your judgement and am curious. Thanks for your reply in advance.

I think Spring 2016. But we might see a different line start up (high MP, lower fps) before that.

Agreed. Even if I wasn't asked

thank you both!!

 

[sanj]

Late to the party on this thread. I have both 5d3 and 1DX. 1DX has about 1 f stop better ISO than 5D3. For events like wedding and such, 5D3 is much quieter. But you can also put the 1DX in single shot quiet mode. The 5D3 has high speed quiet mode. If I were you, I'd buy the 5D3. Loi

Nooooooo.

AND have you tried the single shot quiet mode in 1dx? I doubt.

But yeah 5d3 will work for him just fine.

 

[Besisika]

In good light for slow or non moving subjects, the IQ is about the same. Don't get fooled into thinking anything different.

Yeah, I've already established that. My overall message was that with similar final output quality, the 1DX has advantages in faster focusing and slightly better low light performance. Machine-wise, the 1DX is superior, I don't think there's a question about that. I guess many people don't think that these minor advantages are worth 2x the money. Seems the 5D3's silent shutter is the biggest advantage. If the 1DX had a silent mode AND dropped in price, would people still prefer the 5D3? I'm curious.

People choose whatever they want to choose based on whatever reason they want. If you buy things based on statistics you would be lost. You have to take your decision based on your need. But I think you know that.
Many people on this planet will choose their iPhone over a DSLR, which doesn't mean you should choose a tablet as well.
I had a t1i and stopped using it when I bought the 5D MK III, which I stopped using as well when I bought the 1DX.
The 5D III has 3 advantages over the 1DX
Silent shooting, ML and size.
1 - Size: really?
2 - ML: unless you specialize in something that can be done with it only, you won't miss it. The majority of what it does I prefer doing on hardware when needed. It hurt me not to have it on the 1DX when I read the fuss about it, but I tried it on the 5D III and never used it ever again. Don't need it one bit, but as I said it is up to your using.
3 - Silent shooting: I have never met any priest telling me to stop shooting because my camera is too loud. It is in the state of mind - you simply want to be nicer.
You usually shoot from the back and when it is time to go to the front they know you are a photographer and since you already introduced yourself and asked nicely for a permission you are OK. Most of them hate seeing you walking all over the place like an idiot or using your flash when not supposed to.
The only time, I really need the silent shooting is when shooting a goalball, a game for the blind people (sorry if there is a politically correct way to say it). They rely on their hearing to catch the ball and yes, any noise is a disturbance.

If money is important, buy the 5D III.
If you specialize in something and the 5D III can do it and you are sure you won't expand your interest; be my guest buy the 5D III and stop listening to others; it's your life - your decision.

But if it is not, I see no reason what so ever for you to go with 5D III. Reading a paper about them, without extensively using both, won't help.
For my need, that is not a camera. I have the same filling for it, like I had for my T1i when I used a full frame for the first time. It is my back up, it is my video camera, and I cannot live without it, but if Santa buys me another 1DX I will ask him to take the 5D III to another kid.
Let me put it this way, if you have met Godzilla; size matters. Among other things, your lenses will tell you.
My only trouble with 1DX is its price, because it hurts.