C-Log Addition to Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Not Just a Firmware Update?

[C-A430]

Does this mean that they are protecting 5DIV from 6DII? Upgrading it BEFORE the 6D announcement?

6DII is probably going to be 24Mpx + 1.3x crop video + c-log + h264 4K. Are they adding c-log to 5D so those in need of photo/video hybrid would not think of 5D as inferior after 6D announcement?

 

[Jack Douglas]

If this is true, it's proof for the Canon defenders that they effed up on the video features. Or, proof that Canon is holding back features intentionally. Of course, those of us who have been nagging about better 4K already know this. It's a good sign because after the incredible demand for the GH5 as a video-focused camera, it means Canon may be finally ready to admit they are leaving money on the table by hobbling their DSLR video offerings.

Best case scenario for the 5DIV / 6DII is that they offer C-Log, a FF or 1.3x crop function, a more efficient codec, and a higher-res image in 4K mode. What will likely happen is that they will offer some of this in the 5DIV and leave the 6DII with the same hobbled video features the 5DIV has now.

Is it possible they weren't quite ready with whatever they're going to do when the camera rolled out?

Jack

 

[CanonGrunt]

Is it possible that instead of a 5d MK IV upgrade, which is supposed to happen close to NAB, we will instead see a 5DC at NAB? A replacement to the 1DC but instead in the more popular (Among Filmmakers) 5D line?

 

[HarryFilm]

I have it on the highest regard that Canon is
testing IN THE WILD a still-photos 16-bits per
channel 4:4:4 colour sampling JPEG-2000 codec,
a 4K/8k 16-bits-per channel 4:4:4 colour sampling
120 fps Video-oriented Intra-frame Motion-Wavelet
Codec AND a 4K/8k 4:2:2 120 fps Inter-frame H.265
CODEC for use in high end 1D and 5D series DSLR's,
and for within as-yet-unnamed very large sensor
Medium Format cameras that are at 50 and 120
megapixels and for use in their C700 and other
Cinema EOS cameras.

That means 48-bit colour AND 120 fps 4K AND 8K video
is coming to many future higher-end Canon
Still Photo and EOS Video Cameras!

Earliest intro seems to be set for Spring 2018
This is from engineering personnel I have contact
with the Netherlands and in Germany.

We DEFINITELY live in very interesting times!

 

[tpatana]

After thinking for few moments, I have quite possible explanation for the need to send it in: The part/IC to do the actual c-log is not the normal SoC but some other dedicated IC on board, and it cannot be updated by user but needs Jtag or similar connection that's normally only available for the manufacturer.

 

[Haulien]

On the chance that they're replacing the mainboard, they should upgrade it a bit also, without effecting any accessories customers have purchased (though would probably add to the cost of a mainboard replacement if that is the route Canon would indeed go):

• Bracing of the USB and HDMI ports (these are soldered to the main PCB, a bit of extra strength on these ports would be good for resistance to harder cable pulling). This change won't effect existing cables.
• replace the SD slot with one that's compatible with the faster UHS-II bus. The SD UHS-II slot is backwards compatible with existing SD cards so this won't effect existing SD cards used with the 5D Mark IV.
• Replace the existing HDMI 1.3b port with a HDMI 1.4b (or even better HDMI 2.0+) port. The 1.3b port is the main reason there's only 1080p out over HDMI even when recording 4K... the standard they use simply doesn't support 4K out over HDMI. As with the first point, this won't effect existing cables.
• Upgrade to the DIGIC 7 processor also. Could provide speed increases if they wished to change the codec from MJPEG, or even for full-frame 4K, or a faster framerate (would need to be coupled with the UHS-II SD slot or the CFast slot)

And these things that could effect customers with current accessories:

• Change the outdated USB 3.0 Micro-B with a USB 3.1 USB-C port. Future proofing the camera until the 5D Mark V comes out. Would require new USB cables however.
• Change the dated CF card with a CFast card. Faster buffer clearing, but would require those with CF cards to buy new CFast cards as the standard is not backwards compatible

 

[midluk]

On the chance that they're replacing the mainboard, they should upgrade it a bit also, without effecting any accessories customers have purchased (though would probably add to the cost of a mainboard replacement if that is the route Canon would indeed go):
Lots of changes, making this a completely different camera

They would call that 5DC and request a hefty premium for the modification.

 

[Jack Douglas]

On the chance that they're replacing the mainboard, they should upgrade it a bit also, without effecting any accessories customers have purchased (though would probably add to the cost of a mainboard replacement if that is the route Canon would indeed go):
Lots of changes, making this a completely different camera

They would call that 5DC and request a hefty premium for the modification.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Jack

 

[rrcphoto]

On the chance that they're replacing the mainboard, they should upgrade it a bit also, without effecting any accessories customers have purchased (though would probably add to the cost of a mainboard replacement if that is the route Canon would indeed go):

• Bracing of the USB and HDMI ports (these are soldered to the main PCB, a bit of extra strength on these ports would be good for resistance to harder cable pulling). This change won't effect existing cables.
• replace the SD slot with one that's compatible with the faster UHS-II bus. The SD UHS-II slot is backwards compatible with existing SD cards so this won't effect existing SD cards used with the 5D Mark IV.
• Replace the existing HDMI 1.3b port with a HDMI 1.4b (or even better HDMI 2.0+) port. The 1.3b port is the main reason there's only 1080p out over HDMI even when recording 4K... the standard they use simply doesn't support 4K out over HDMI. As with the first point, this won't effect existing cables.
• Upgrade to the DIGIC 7 processor also. Could provide speed increases if they wished to change the codec from MJPEG, or even for full-frame 4K, or a faster framerate (would need to be coupled with the UHS-II SD slot or the CFast slot)

And these things that could effect customers with current accessories:

• Change the outdated USB 3.0 Micro-B with a USB 3.1 USB-C port. Future proofing the camera until the 5D Mark V comes out. Would require new USB cables however.
• Change the dated CF card with a CFast card. Faster buffer clearing, but would require those with CF cards to buy new CFast cards as the standard is not backwards compatible

why don't you ask for a 5D Mark V while you're at it .. :

 

[Haulien]

On the chance that they're replacing the mainboard, they should upgrade it a bit also.....
*snip*

why don't you ask for a 5D Mark V while you're at it .. :

This is coming from an owner of a IV, but this should have been the feature set of the 5D Mark IV! (hell, most of these such as UHS-II support, HDMI 1.4a, even CFast 1.0 should've been on the Mark III!)

 

[ahsanford]

A theory on what's motivating this that I hadn't heard:

https://www.slrlounge.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-rumored-to-have-log-support-on-the-eve-of-the-gh5-is-it-too-late/

I don't necessarily buy this. The GH5 and 5D4 are apples and oranges in the market, their cost, capabilities, who they are for, etc.

- A

 

[transpo1]

So you send in your 5D Mark IV and you get C-Log, 1.3X 4K crop, ability to switch between MJPEG and a new more compressed codec, focus peaking, zebras, 4K HDMI out, and then you notice in front that it sports a new "5D C" badge. (...cue the Twilight Zone theme...)

I love this idea. The 5DC is a camera they should be making and releasing at NAB anyway

 

[transpo1]

A theory on what's motivating this that I hadn't heard:

https://www.slrlounge.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-rumored-to-have-log-support-on-the-eve-of-the-gh5-is-it-too-late/

I don't necessarily buy this. The GH5 and 5D4 are apples and oranges in the market, their cost, capabilities, who they are for, etc.

- A

From a stills perspective, yes- but not from a video standpoint. Videographers and filmmakers will buy based on video capabilities, quality and value- and since rumors are high that GH5 preorders are through the roof, Canon might be realizing that they are leaving money on the table from LOTS of video shooters.

 

[rrcphoto]

A theory on what's motivating this that I hadn't heard:

https://www.slrlounge.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-rumored-to-have-log-support-on-the-eve-of-the-gh5-is-it-too-late/

I don't necessarily buy this. The GH5 and 5D4 are apples and oranges in the market, their cost, capabilities, who they are for, etc.

- A

From a stills perspective, yes- but not from a video standpoint. Videographers and filmmakers will buy based on video capabilities, quality and value- and since rumors are high that GH5 preorders are through the roof, Canon might be realizing that they are leaving money on the table from LOTS of video shooters.

I really doubt that videographers and filmmakers will not purchase for the most part larger ecosystems and ones with actual video ergonomics and not a dinky little ILC that claims to shoot video.

and yeah.. sure on those GH5 rumors.. lol.

considering that panasonic just announced that they are trimming down digital cameras, and 5 other divisions that are losing money badly for them, I really doubt anything is "flying off the shelves".

the GH5 like the GH4 plays to a niche market that it has to sell to those that want it to look and act like a DSLR, and shoot video. Lots of them? probably not. anyone else that wants to shoot seriously with m43's (why would they) and 4K would shoot with a blackmagic - far better, and far superior ergonomics. a real video camera.

so saying that all the people that shoot video want this is - stupidity.

apparently panasonic agrees as the knives come out over the camera divison:

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Panasonic-takes-out-scalpel-again-as-profits-falter

"Three other businesses units -- digital cameras, private branch exchange telephone systems and optical disk drives -- will be dismantled. Each will be scaled back and placed under the umbrella of other operations, with headcount to be reduced.

These six businesses are expected to report aggregate sales of roughly 380 billion yen ($3.42 billion) in the fiscal year ending March 31, accounting for about 5% of the total, and operating losses totaling about 46 billion yen."

So yeah.. about that.

Panasonic has been shedding marketshare insanely for the last 5+ years, and they have dropped off the spectrum enterly domestically. where you have your most significant margin.

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/japanese-market-shares.html

So I really doubt that canon's worried much about panasonic.

 

[transpo1]

A theory on what's motivating this that I hadn't heard:

https://www.slrlounge.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-rumored-to-have-log-support-on-the-eve-of-the-gh5-is-it-too-late/

I don't necessarily buy this. The GH5 and 5D4 are apples and oranges in the market, their cost, capabilities, who they are for, etc.

- A

From a stills perspective, yes- but not from a video standpoint. Videographers and filmmakers will buy based on video capabilities, quality and value- and since rumors are high that GH5 preorders are through the roof, Canon might be realizing that they are leaving money on the table from LOTS of video shooters.

I really doubt that videographers and filmmakers will not purchase for the most part larger ecosystems and ones with actual video ergonomics and not a dinky little ILC that claims to shoot video.

and yeah.. sure on those GH5 rumors.. lol.

considering that panasonic just announced that they are trimming down digital cameras, and 5 other divisions that are losing money badly for them, I really doubt anything is "flying off the shelves".

the GH5 like the GH4 plays to a niche market that it has to sell to those that want it to look and act like a DSLR, and shoot video. Lots of them? probably not. anyone else that wants to shoot seriously with m43's (why would they) and 4K would shoot with a blackmagic - far better, and far superior ergonomics. a real video camera.

so saying that all the people that shoot video want this is - stupidity.

apparently panasonic agrees as the knives come out over the camera divison:

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Panasonic-takes-out-scalpel-again-as-profits-falter

Panasonic has been shedding marketshare insanely for the last 5+ years, and they have dropped off the spectrum enterly domestically. where you have your most significant margin.

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/japanese-market-shares.html

So I really doubt that canon's worried much about panasonic.

Nevertheless- video is huge, and will only get bigger, and companies such as Canon need to skate to where the puck WILL BE, not to where it is currently, and cultivate the next generation. Your skepticism belies a certain disdain for video shooters, so I don't think you realize how big video actually is on the market, and how much . As I noted, this is about leaving money on the table, not stealing away market share. Videographers now getting their start are using Sony (and perhaps now Panasonic) DSLRs, and they will grow up to buy FS7s and F5/55s, not Canon Cinema EOS. This is called long-term strategy, and right now, Canon's down-market offerings are lacking.

 

[rrcphoto]

video is huge, and will only get bigger, and companies such as Canon need to skate to where the puck WILL BE, not to where it is currently, and cultivate the next generation. Your skepticism belies a certain disdain for video shooters, so I don't think you realize how big video actually is on the market, and how much

apparently not big enough to even save a small camera division that hits it out the park for video.

So yeah, I probably have a better realization than you do.

which is to say.. not much.

and again, if someone is serious for video - why would they not choose a ILVC (interchangable lens video camera) versus a hacked ILC with stills ergonomics. especially why on earth would they choose a DSLR? regardless of video capability. that's just senseless.

so what you have yet to prove that there's this major market for hacked stills cameras to shoot video, especially DSLR's where you can't use the viewfinder.

If panasonic can't make a go of it in that market, then there's probably not much of a market.

 

[transpo1]

video is huge, and will only get bigger, and companies such as Canon need to skate to where the puck WILL BE, not to where it is currently, and cultivate the next generation. Your skepticism belies a certain disdain for video shooters, so I don't think you realize how big video actually is on the market, and how much

apparently not big enough to even save a small camera division that hits it out the park for video.

So yeah, I probably have a better realization than you do.

which is to say.. not much.

and again, if someone is serious for video - why would they not choose a ILVC (interchangable lens video camera) versus a hacked ILC with stills ergonomics. especially why on earth would they choose a DSLR? regardless of video capability. that's just senseless.

so what you have yet to prove that there's this major market for hacked stills cameras to shoot video, especially DSLR's where you can't use the viewfinder.

If panasonic can't make a go of it in that market, then there's probably not much of a market.

Yeah, sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about- stick to the stills topics, my friend

 

[scyrene]

video is huge, and will only get bigger, and companies such as Canon need to skate to where the puck WILL BE, not to where it is currently, and cultivate the next generation. Your skepticism belies a certain disdain for video shooters, so I don't think you realize how big video actually is on the market, and how much

apparently not big enough to even save a small camera division that hits it out the park for video.

So yeah, I probably have a better realization than you do.

which is to say.. not much.

and again, if someone is serious for video - why would they not choose a ILVC (interchangable lens video camera) versus a hacked ILC with stills ergonomics. especially why on earth would they choose a DSLR? regardless of video capability. that's just senseless.

so what you have yet to prove that there's this major market for hacked stills cameras to shoot video, especially DSLR's where you can't use the viewfinder.

If panasonic can't make a go of it in that market, then there's probably not much of a market.

Yeah, sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about- stick to the stills topics, my friend

You gonna back up your assertions?

 

[rrcphoto]

video is huge, and will only get bigger, and companies such as Canon need to skate to where the puck WILL BE, not to where it is currently, and cultivate the next generation. Your skepticism belies a certain disdain for video shooters, so I don't think you realize how big video actually is on the market, and how much

apparently not big enough to even save a small camera division that hits it out the park for video.

So yeah, I probably have a better realization than you do.

which is to say.. not much.

and again, if someone is serious for video - why would they not choose a ILVC (interchangable lens video camera) versus a hacked ILC with stills ergonomics. especially why on earth would they choose a DSLR? regardless of video capability. that's just senseless.

so what you have yet to prove that there's this major market for hacked stills cameras to shoot video, especially DSLR's where you can't use the viewfinder.

If panasonic can't make a go of it in that market, then there's probably not much of a market.

Yeah, sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about- stick to the stills topics, my friend

So you are one of those... Because I use a camera this way, everyone must want to....

Got it.

Otherwise I'll wait for this remarkable evidence of an pent up market dying to use dslrs for video currently.

Now. Not six years ago. Now.

 

[transpo1]

video is huge, and will only get bigger, and companies such as Canon need to skate to where the puck WILL BE, not to where it is currently, and cultivate the next generation. Your skepticism belies a certain disdain for video shooters, so I don't think you realize how big video actually is on the market, and how much

apparently not big enough to even save a small camera division that hits it out the park for video.

So yeah, I probably have a better realization than you do.

which is to say.. not much.

and again, if someone is serious for video - why would they not choose a ILVC (interchangable lens video camera) versus a hacked ILC with stills ergonomics. especially why on earth would they choose a DSLR? regardless of video capability. that's just senseless.

so what you have yet to prove that there's this major market for hacked stills cameras to shoot video, especially DSLR's where you can't use the viewfinder.

If panasonic can't make a go of it in that market, then there's probably not much of a market.

Yeah, sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about- stick to the stills topics, my friend

So you are one of those... Because I use a camera this way, everyone must want to....

Got it.

Otherwise I'll wait for this remarkable evidence of an pent up market dying to use dslrs for video currently.

Now. Not six years ago. Now.

They're called hybrid shooters, artists, multimedia producers, whatever you want to call them. Not acknowledging the huge explosion of video and the fact that people who take stills also want to take good video is obtuse. Oh, and by the way, if the rumors are true, Canon ultimately agrees:

http://www.canonrumors.com/crop-factor-change-for-4k-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-included-in-coming-update-more/

Otherwise, they wouldn't bother.