Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??

[Jettatore]

It's not quite 3 years old yet, getting there, but it's closer to 2.4 years old. There are a few things that can be improved on it, but as it sits it's an amazing camera. I would want for an upgraded sensor (ISO, low light, low noise performance + IQ upgrade would be much preferred over higher MP) as well as a 3rd dial that can be dedicated to ISO without pushing a button first, this would leave the back wheel and two top dials so you can more quickly have full manual control. I would want it to stay as a 1.6x crop. SD+CF slots like the new 5DIII would be a plus but not altogether nessicary. Ability to use it with something like Magic Lantern hacks would be a big benefit for video as well as people capable of writing custom macro scripts for automating complex routines and swapping between complex profiles, otherwise including some of the intelligent features for video that are in the 5DIII or the 5DII+Hack.

Also for the love of Bob, don't put that stupid mode lock dial on it like is on the 5DIII. I have never once accidentally knocked that dial and the lock gets in the way of quickly switching between Custom C modes. (that's actually the only thing I don't like about the new 5DIII) The 7D mode dial is built like a rock and just stays put unless you move it.

None of this is enough for me to want for a replacement right now so if they take their time in releasing it, fine, if they release it tomorrow and it's as good of an upgrade as it should be, that's fine too, I'll just wait on buying it. I would take a 7DII over a potential 70D if the current 7D and current 60D are any indication of where those upgraded models would sit the cameras in the Canon product line.

 

[D.Sim]

Also for the love of Bob, don't put that stupid mode lock dial on it like is on the 5DIII. I have never once accidentally knocked that dial and the lock gets in the way of quickly switching between Custom C modes. (that's actually the only thing I don't like about the new 5DIII) The 7D mode dial is built like a rock and just stays put unless you move it.

I actually thought that way too... but there have been a few times I've ended up in A-Dep instead of M and missed a shot. I hate A-Dep, would be nice if I could have another custom function in its place =(

 

[Jettatore]

Yeah, a button to replace mode dial, and then use one of the wheels to switch through a customizable/re-orderable list of customs and presets, but that might not be as fast as a mode dial without a lock unless maybe they took on the concept of sticky keys (hold the mode button, while spinning the wheel, and when you let go of the button your choice gets selected and you are back to where you were before you pressed the button) and as an alternate function, if you just press and release the button, it would act much like pressing the ISO button does now, you move the wheel and then wait for time out or tap another button (shutter) to confirm. I don't like "B" in between manual and the 3 custom dials either. Would be nice if we could custom order or customize our equipment or for those who don't need that fall back on a well thought out default design. Open source camera specs and devs for the win, but that'll probably be a while...

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

exact opposite, I have had the dial switch on me. First time it happened I thought the cam was broken. But in fact, the dial had gone from m to bulb! I hate having to double check where the mode dial is, which is what i do now. Granted, its only happened a few times. But still, I'd rather have to deal with unlocking the dial than always making sure its on M like I want it to be

 

[Jettatore]

exact opposite, I have had the dial switch on me. First time it happened I thought the cam was broken. But in fact, the dial had gone from m to bulb! I hate having to double check where the mode dial is, which is what i do now. Granted, its only happened a few times. But still, I'd rather have to deal with unlocking the dial than always making sure its on M like I want it to be

For those that have this issue, I can perfectly understand. However, I would prefer the ability to unlock the lock so that when I don't want it, it doesn't get in the way. To me, this would solve for both wants/needs. Again, this isn't a deal breaker for me. But if given the option, I'd send in the machine to have the lock removed, much like they allow you to send in a 5DII or 7D to have the lock added (or who knows, maybe I'd get used to it), either way it wouldn't effect my decision to purchase. I bet they will offer this, but with all the back orders/delays I bet it isn't high on their priority list atm, just a guess.

 

[solarpos]

I have set my C3 to mimic my classic all purpose M settings this way I spin the dial all the way and it takes out any margin of error.

 

[Jettatore]

I have set my C3 to mimic my classic all purpose M settings this way I spin the dial all the way and it takes out any margin of error.

That's a good strategy. But if you make any changes to the base Custom setting and don't re-register it, and dial to another setting and then back, you go back to the defaults you registered, not the temporary adjustments you may have made. Manual doesn't do this, it stays to whatever you last left it at without any registration process. Manual is 4 clicks down from the top. Another approach, if it's too dark to see without a flashlight or you're moving fast and have to look where your going/shooting, spin the dial clockwise to the end then dial it counter-clockwise 4 clicks.

 

[kubelik]

interesting idea to set the C3 to mimic Manual mode, I may have to try that. I am constantly knocking my mode dial on my 5D Mark II onto Bulb which is pretty irritating, especially for urban shooting where you want to snag a specific, fleeting moment.

 

[Musouka]

Canon will be more than happy to install a Mode Dial Lock in your 7D/5D2 as long as you show them that shiny new Benjamin (and can live without the camera for about a week) ;D

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d?pageKeyCode=prdAdvDetail&docId=0901e02480245968

Some say that the Lock on the 60D is a pain because you have to remember pressing the button when changing modes lest you break the little round thingy. I just learned to check the mode before shooting. Maybe the placement of the On/Off button is a bit unfortunate and would cause you to change the setting in the rush of things.

 

[Marsu42]

Some say that the Lock on the 60D is a pain because you have to remember pressing the button when changing modes lest you break the little round thingy.

Obviously I'm not part of "some" because I don't have any issues pressing the lock when rotating on my 60d. Of course it would be easier w/o it, but seeing the complaints of some 5d2/7d users which made even Canon act says me I should be happier with the lock than without it.

However, I can say one thing: To break the lock, you have to have the coordination of a green Hulk just after a transformation or have to have taken the wrong drugs or too much of them.

 

[Albi86]

IMHO it's a wrong mentality to consider APS-C as the poor, mutilated brother of FF.

Crop sensor cameras offer longer reach and deeper DOF, which are very useful for many applications. Lens usually behaves better, especially as far as border performance is concerned, due to the sweet spot effect. Also lenses designed for crop sensors are cheaper and quite well performing:
Canon 15-85 is 30% cheaper than Canon 24-105
Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 is 35% cheaper than Sigma 24-70 f/2.8
... and so on. And all of these are very good lenses within their scopes. Most of people just buy a fast prime for portraits and other shallow dof applications. Nikon has even launched a variety of cheap yet good fast primes designed for APS-C. So basically for most users a FF is a very bad deal.

Furthermore, as many Pros as there could be, amateurs will always be more, and crop cameras are way cheaper. I guess Canon (as most companies) gets the most of its income from the lowest segments of market, which means point-and-shoot and consumer reflex cameras. In the last years we've seen the 550D bring few relevant upgrades to the 500D, then the 600D bringing even fewer to the 550D. Now Canon has the 650D on top of its priorities, and IMHO it's a consequence of the fact they've already lost the 1100D vs D3200 battle. Canon cares the least about 7000$ cameras, as they are the thinnest slice of the market, and this is why we get a new one every every 4 years instead of every 2. It's more a matter of showing muscles than of real income forecasts.

So what I mean is: crop sensor cameras are a market of their own, and all but secundary.

Nikon D7000 can rival the 7D in many aspects, yet being considerably cheaper. Canon 60D is no match, so what happened? You got a 60Da. Now we're getting a new firmware for 7D which adds new features. The question arises rather spontaneously: why at this time? Why didn't they do it sooner? It sounds a lot like "We're still alive".

Now that they have used DigicV even for the new PowerShot cameras, I think they cannot delay a refresh of the 60D/7D line too much. I am very excited because I know they'll have to beat the D7000, which is already quite an impressive camera at a very sweet price. But I also think they're having a hard time in doing so.

 

[dlleno]

IMHO it's a wrong mentality to consider APS-C as the poor, mutilated brother of FF.

maybe I'm not paying attention but I haven't seen much emphasis on 1.6x in this way. I consider the crop bodies as the basis of Canons's technonolgy progression and even market segmentation tests. Thats where they can push the pixel density envelope, and translate those learnings into the FF world.

Crop sensor cameras offer longer reach and deeper DOF, which are very useful for many applications. Lens usually behaves better, especially as far as border performance is concerned, due to the sweet spot effect. Also lenses designed for crop sensors are cheaper and quite well performing:
Canon 15-85 is 30% cheaper than Canon 24-105
Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 is 35% cheaper than Sigma 24-70 f/2.8
... and so on. And all of these are very good lenses within their scopes.

yes, but I think the key here is "within their scopes". The 15-85 is really not even in the same league as the 24-105 L, in terms of build quality, weather sealing, etc, and the finer points of IQ, i.e. CA and distortion. Yes there are some well-performing "C" lenses (15-85 and 17-55 are notables), and yes Canon has found ways to cut corners and still provide good IQ at reasonable cost that is accepted in the APS-C marketplace. A portion of this "value proposition" does come from the reduced image circle but some of it also comes from the way in which the lens is manufactured, not to mention the target market and economies of scale.

So what I mean is: crop sensor cameras are a market of their own, and all but secundary.

Morever, were it not for the announced merge of 1D and 1Ds, and the ensuing speculation that "H" itself is dead, I think the 7D rumor mill would not be nearly so interesting -- the 7D2 would be just be another incremental improvement in a prosumer wildlife body. However, the question still in my mind is "what will Canon do with the 1D market? will the 1.3x sensor emerge in another body (even the 7D2) or will Canon's top-tier crop body be a 1.6x?

Now that they have used DigicV even for the new PowerShot cameras, I think they cannot delay a refresh of the 60D/7D line too much. I am very excited because I know they'll have to beat the D7000, which is already quite an impressive camera at a very sweet price. But I also think they're having a hard time in doing so.

It does appear that Canon has their compeititive work cut out for them on the sensor side, to be sure, and I don't think there are even any amusing prevarications, much less credible rumors, suggesting the demise of APS-C. Moreover, to add to your excitement, if APS-H is really dead, then this places all the more emphasis (it seems to me) on an upper-tier weather-sealed crop body (more "1D-like") which could be a 1.6x 7D2. and while we're speculating, the presence of such a body will strengthen the need for high-quality wide angle APS-C lenses. they might even create a name for them.

 

[briansquibb]

Canon 15-85 is 30% cheaper than Canon 24-105

Not exactly a like for like comparison

 

[unfocused]

...were it not for the announced merge of 1D and 1Ds, and the ensuing speculation that "H" itself is dead, I think the 7D rumor mill would not be nearly so interesting -- the 7D2 would be just be another incremental improvement in a prosumer wildlife body. However, the question still in my mind is "what will Canon do with the 1D market?

Yes, this is what makes the speculation (and it is all speculation at this point) interesting. I tend to believe the APS-H really is dead, squeezed out by the ever-shrinking space between APS-C and Full-Frame.

I am very excited because I know they'll have to beat the D7000, which is already quite an impressive camera at a very sweet price. But I also think they're having a hard time in doing so.

I too was very excited initially by the D7000 announcement. But, then someone pointed out that Nikon may be simply recycling the Sony 24 mp sensor, which seems to be a fairly weak performer. If that's the case, Canon may not have too much to worry about. I would like to think that sensor technology has advanced over the past three years and that the 7DII will be a top performing APS-C sensor that matches the quality formerly seen in the APS-H sensor.

It doesn't take much of a leap to imagine a Canon 7DX: APS-C sensor performing at the level of the 1D APS-H sensor, improved weather-sealing, improved auto-focus and a one-piece gripped body. Taken individually, these are all low-cost incremental improvements, and there is no reason that this could not be done for well south of $2,400. But if they did that, what a game-changer it would be.

 

[dlleno]

It doesn't take much of a leap to imagine a Canon 7DX: APS-C sensor performing at the level of the 1D APS-H sensor, improved weather-sealing, improved auto-focus and a one-piece gripped body. Taken individually, these are all low-cost incremental improvements, and there is no reason that this could not be done for well south of $2,400. But if they did that, what a game-changer it would be.

no kidding. and they need to do it in 2012. The biggest factor that would compromise this effort is if Canon trully continues to lag behind in sensor technology and fails to deliver a game changing 1.6x sensor. I hope they have something up their sleeve though, as it is time for the next technology cycle to emerge, it seems to me. I would hope that, reading the market, they would price it as you suggested (5D3 pricing leaves room for just such a body) instead of the 1D4 price category

 

[briansquibb]

Yes, this is what makes the speculation (and it is all speculation at this point) interesting. I tend to believe the APS-H really is dead, squeezed out by the ever-shrinking space between APS-C and Full-Frame.

The ratio is still 1.6, 1.3 and 1 between the sensors. The IQ of the 1.6 has not got close to the 1.3 yet - and we know the 1.3 can be developed a lot further. Whether Canon develop the 1.3 is rather more management than a technical decision

 

[Musouka]

An APS-H body is difficult to position unless Canon came up with a way to make it work with EF-S lenses (and get some pretty good results) so I find that quite unlikely.

Seeing how things are going at the moment, I would say we will have to first see a new Rebel and the D400 from Nikon before we can expect a 7D Part II or a 70D.

 

[dlleno]

An APS-H body is difficult to position unless Canon came up with a way to make it work with EF-S lenses (and get some pretty good results) so I find that quite unlikely.

why would it be more difficult to position now as opposed to how they have positioned "H" along side "C" since 2003?

Seeing how things are going at the moment, I would say we will have to first see a new Rebel and the D400 from Nikon before we can expect a 7D Part II or a 70D.

Except for the 1Ds, the 7D has now (approximately) equaled or surpassed the market life of any digital EOS body in the 12 year history of digital EOS. It is the oldest APS-C body currently being sold, and with every passing month breaks new records for the longest market life of any Canon APS-C body. Just now surpassing 2.5 years old, the 7D is 1.5 years older than the current Rebels, and nearly a year older than the 60D which uses the same sensor.

The 60D itself is now about 2 years old, surpassing the market life of any xxD body Canon has ever sold.

Given how well Nikon played the marketing game with the D800, one wonders if Canon isn't planing a few surprises of its own later in 2012. I can't imagine Canon lasting much longer in the prosumer wildlife body market without a 7D update, and indeed without telegraphing a clear direction, the pro wildlife market (currently served by the 1D4) is on interesting territory as well, imho.

 

[briansquibb]

An APS-H body is difficult to position unless Canon came up with a way to make it work with EF-S lenses (and get some pretty good results) so I find that quite unlikely.

why would it be more difficult to position now as opposed to how they have positioned "H" along side "C" since 2003?

Seeing how things are going at the moment, I would say we will have to first see a new Rebel and the D400 from Nikon before we can expect a 7D Part II or a 70D.

Except for the 1Ds, the 7D has now (approximately) equaled or surpassed the market life of any digital EOS body in the 12 year history of digital EOS. It is the oldest APS-C body currently being sold, and with every passing month breaks new records for the longest market life of any Canon APS-C body. Just now surpassing 2.5 years old, the 7D is 1.5 years older than the current Rebels, and nearly a year older than the 60D which uses the same sensor.

The 60D itself is now about 2 years old, surpassing the market life of any xxD body Canon has ever sold.

Given how well Nikon played the marketing game with the D800, one wonders if Canon isn't planing a few surprises of its own later in 2012. I can't imagine Canon lasting much longer in the prosumer wildlife body market without a 7D update, and indeed without telegraphing a clear direction, the pro wildlife market (currently served by the 1D4) is on interesting territory as well, imho.

5DII is still being sold so that is older than the 7D

I believe the 40D was marketed for nearly 3 years? It was still being sold when the 50D came out

 

[dlleno]

The 7D may continue to be sold after it is updated, as well.