Canon Announcements Coming August 14, 2015

[Tugela]

After watching the Mayflower Concepts PMA presentation

Great analysis and presentation on one theory why the digital camera market is collapsing (not smartphones, not market saturation). Re-thinking photography and imaging--and making it easy and fun is a wild idea. Let's hope Canon, et al. are paying attention.

The market is shrinking because new bells and whistles are just that, they don't substantively improve IQ in a way that is noticeable to the average user, so the need to upgrade isn't there. Lower demand = lowering sales.

The challenge for manufacturers is to provide significant functionality that doesn't currently exist in cameras in a meaningful way. That is increasingly difficult to do as time goes by. At the moment the biggest single thing a manufacturer can do to enhance the overall utility of a camera is to improve the video capabilities. Stills are mature these days, but video is not, and that is why there is so much emphasis on video in newer models.

 

[ahsanford]

The market is shrinking because new bells and whistles are just that, they don't substantively improve IQ in a way that is noticeable to the average user, so the need to upgrade isn't there. Lower demand = lowering sales.

The challenge for manufacturers is to provide significant functionality that doesn't currently exist in cameras in a meaningful way. That is increasingly difficult to do as time goes by. At the moment the biggest single thing a manufacturer can do to enhance the overall utility of a camera is to improve the video capabilities. Stills are mature these days, but video is not, and that is why there is so much emphasis on video in newer models.

Yep. And unless a camera lives or dies based on an evolving ecosystem that forces you to upgrade it often -- cell phones, I am looking at you -- people will just hang on to their very nice cameras that work just fine.

I look at the sensor scores that just got published on the 5DS rigs, and hate on crazy DXO all you want, they basically state what we expected -- the 5DS gets you pixels and little else. I recognize cropping is a powerful tool and more pixels are not a bad thing, but as I don't do many enlargements and I am not a pro who needs all competitive edge they can get, I'll be keeping my 5D3 and not upgrading.

But I don't say that in anger at Canon -- I love my 5D3. We're just not in an age of spectacular advancements with (dedicated) cameras, so buying in every 2-3 years for a new body is a wretched return on investment. I'll save my money for lenses.

- A

 

[Don Haines]

You can NEVER re-shoot a wedding.

Funny you should say that..... I have a friend who shot the same couple's wedding 3 times in a month.... But that was an extraordinary set of circumstances. Almost always there is no second chance....

 

[PureClassA]

LOL - Had to go pee on my campfire, eh? Oh wait, this IS CR Forum... (kidding) Yeah I guess if the wedding itself gets redone .... But not, oh damn I missed that shot because X. "Hey hold up! Could ya'll run back and re-do the whole bridal entrance again for me??? My Sony compact stop working with my metabones adapter and my Canon lens."

You can NEVER re-shoot a wedding.

Funny you should say that..... I have a friend who shot the same couple's wedding 3 times in a month.... But that was an extraordinary set of circumstances. Almost always there is no second chance....

 

[Stu_bert]

The market is shrinking because new bells and whistles are just that, they don't substantively improve IQ in a way that is noticeable to the average user, so the need to upgrade isn't there. Lower demand = lowering sales.

The challenge for manufacturers is to provide significant functionality that doesn't currently exist in cameras in a meaningful way. That is increasingly difficult to do as time goes by. At the moment the biggest single thing a manufacturer can do to enhance the overall utility of a camera is to improve the video capabilities. Stills are mature these days, but video is not, and that is why there is so much emphasis on video in newer models.

Yep. And unless a camera lives or dies based on an evolving ecosystem that forces you to upgrade it often -- cell phones, I am looking at you -- people will just hang on to their very nice cameras that work just fine.

I look at the sensor scores that just got published on the 5DS rigs, and hate on crazy DXO all you want, they basically state what we expected -- the 5DS gets you pixels and little else. I recognize cropping is a powerful tool and more pixels are not a bad thing, but as I don't do many enlargements and I am not a pro who needs all competitive edge they can get, I'll be keeping my 5D3 and not upgrading.

But I don't say that in anger at Canon -- I love my 5D3. We're just not in an age of spectacular advancements with (dedicated) cameras, so buying in every 2-3 years for a new body is a wretched return on investment. I'll save my money for lenses.

- A

To be fair to Canon, the review says their best sensor to date, which given it has over twice the MP of the MK III isnt that shabby. But if you want better ISO DR akin to the D810, then it's not there. But I agree, the most recent "leap" in photography was probably the smartphone, and that was more in terms of portability, usability and flexibility, not the photography tech. Digital sensors are now in the same state as microprocessors. They're on a plateau until some major advancement in science comes along.

Two other interesting points from that review, the DR advantage goes by ISO 800, and lessens in print.

DR is being addressed leveraging their Dual-ISO tech and will be first seen in the 1Dx MK II. Canon would never give us both (a subject much discussed elsewhere here)

 

[Stu_bert]

After watching the Mayflower Concepts PMA presentation

Great analysis and presentation on one theory why the digital camera market is collapsing (not smartphones, not market saturation). Re-thinking photography and imaging--and making it easy and fun is a wild idea. Let's hope Canon, et al. are paying attention.

+1 Tom Hogan has long been an advocate that the photo companies should look more at the supporting ecosystem and not just the sensor & lenses. Trouble is, the photo companies have no experience in that area which is why the tech companies are causing them so many headaches.

 

[Stu_bert]

I won't say it's impossible to make a FF DSLR smaller, but...

[truncated]

ALL THAT SAID, I would take a good look at an SL1-type FF body if that ever happened, but I suspect my hands would still prefer a 6D size, which if they wanted to, they could probably make that camera even a bit smaller.

It all depends on the FL of glass you are using:

If you shoot over (say) 135mm, you'll likely want a FF-sized body to hang on to that glass. And by the time you are up to that size of lens, any major upside of a thinner body is lost.

If you shoot more pedestrian/standard FLs, this is where mirrorless shines for total body+lens size reduction. I'm not a mirrorless proponent so much as a realist that it will replace 95% of SLRs eventually (more than a decade away, but it will happen).

Consider the attached pic for the two groups above. Just replace the SL1 for the A7 and you get my meaning -- at some point, a small body isn't doing you any favors.

I love the thought of tiny rig with stellar FF IQ, but I'd only use that with tiny lenses in the 24 - 85mm range.

- A

Good comparison, thank you.

 

[Stu_bert]

Since the a7rII will be available around that date, it would be wise to announce some groundbreaking stuff in the mark 4 by then. Just to make sure some customers will wait a bit more and stay with Canon instead of them running to Sony instead.
Just my two cents in the marketing pot.

I think you are right. I think Canon will want to rain on the Sony Parade, the challenge is how much it will rain on the 5Ds parade, especially if the 1Dx II has amazing DR and a global shutter. One assumes Canon closely analysed the needs of the Studio / Landscape photographer base that they have today and concluded same DR as 5D3 would be acceptable.

I would still expect the 1DX II to be the announcement. Not shipping, but announced...

I suspect the 5DIV will be held off till close to the D820/D900 from Nikon which is likely to be around the end of the year based on the 6 month exclusivity Sony has on their own sensors. For similar reasons they will want to divert attention. Of course Sony might announce proper RAW encoding at the same time that Canikon annouce

 

[Stu_bert]

How about 16Bit Raw in the next camera bodys? This would solve some issues, as more data could be stored for the darker parts....

I think Jrista covered this in a previous post, essentially not required based on the current DR / Sensor tech..

 

[Stu_bert]

Yes. Landscape and Wedding are two completely different monsters when it comes to problem solving. You can (arguably) almost always re-shoot a landscape. You can NEVER re-shoot a wedding. Thus, the demands for top notch service (CPS), hallmark reliability & durability, and ergonomics (including menu navigation) is paramount. With landscapes you can afford to be patient and fiddle with metabones and sloppy Sony menus. They make great sensors that benefit the landscaper and warrant patience. With weddings and other similar work, you'd better be Johnny-On-The-Spot and come with backup gear just in case. The thought of fooling with adapters and Sony ergonomics on the fly in a situation like that makes me nervous just thinking about it.

It's all about what you do and what you need to do it right. I think Sony still has a long way to go before they can think about cracking the portrait and wedding market to any significant degree. They will need their own CPS and they will need to build real pro-grade cameras that feel like what pro-shooters are accustomed to and WANT to use.

+1 - it is the ecosystem which keeps many people with Canon, Pros and serious amateurs alike, of which CPS is very important...

On one of your other points, I always loved the 5D form etc until I got a 1d body, and now for me, it is the perfect shape & weight, especially as you say in terms of balancing L lenses. Admittedly I dont go on 20 mile hikes with them Very much a personal thing of course.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Thats just it they dont have "fast profit products" that is why they are almost continuosly offering "cash backs" to get people to buy, their sales have dropped (as it has for the competition) and it makes more sense to move up Rebel users to F/F and compact users to Rebels. If the declines continue they will need higher margin products but the majority of people will never need the features & complexity of the 1DX II.

The Japanese Yen has dropped in value, so Canon makes a bigger profit when selling in US dollars.
They have always had cash back sales, at least for the past 15 years, that's a marketing thing.

Canon can afford to cut prices, they are making good money, while Sony only lost $1 billion USD last year, and is borrowing 4 billion for sensor production while keeping the money losing parts of their business going.

All manufacturers, be it automobiles, cameras, or potato chips have low end products and try to move buyers upscale to more expensive and profitible ones, its been that way for a long long time.

 

[3kramd5]

And nor will an August announcement rain on the A7RII parade - bhphotovideo have it starting to ship Aug 10.

I wonder how accurate that is. When I pre ordered it on June 17, the confirmation (BH) said "New Item - Coming Soon", and the website estimated a ship date of July 29. Then it said "August" on the website. It now says August 10. Sony's website recently said August 26, and others say August 30.

I updated my BH order, and the new confirmation changed the verbiage to "New Item, Available for pre-order 08/01/15." I don't know if that means they aren't taking *new* pre-orders until August.

 

[Tugela]

The market is shrinking because new bells and whistles are just that, they don't substantively improve IQ in a way that is noticeable to the average user, so the need to upgrade isn't there. Lower demand = lowering sales.

The challenge for manufacturers is to provide significant functionality that doesn't currently exist in cameras in a meaningful way. That is increasingly difficult to do as time goes by. At the moment the biggest single thing a manufacturer can do to enhance the overall utility of a camera is to improve the video capabilities. Stills are mature these days, but video is not, and that is why there is so much emphasis on video in newer models.

Yep. And unless a camera lives or dies based on an evolving ecosystem that forces you to upgrade it often -- cell phones, I am looking at you -- people will just hang on to their very nice cameras that work just fine.

I look at the sensor scores that just got published on the 5DS rigs, and hate on crazy DXO all you want, they basically state what we expected -- the 5DS gets you pixels and little else. I recognize cropping is a powerful tool and more pixels are not a bad thing, but as I don't do many enlargements and I am not a pro who needs all competitive edge they can get, I'll be keeping my 5D3 and not upgrading.

But I don't say that in anger at Canon -- I love my 5D3. We're just not in an age of spectacular advancements with (dedicated) cameras, so buying in every 2-3 years for a new body is a wretched return on investment. I'll save my money for lenses.

- A

To be fair to Canon, the review says their best sensor to date, which given it has over twice the MP of the MK III isnt that shabby. But if you want better ISO DR akin to the D810, then it's not there. But I agree, the most recent "leap" in photography was probably the smartphone, and that was more in terms of portability, usability and flexibility, not the photography tech. Digital sensors are now in the same state as microprocessors. They're on a plateau until some major advancement in science comes along.

Two other interesting points from that review, the DR advantage goes by ISO 800, and lessens in print.

DR is being addressed leveraging their Dual-ISO tech and will be first seen in the 1Dx MK II. Canon would never give us both (a subject much discussed elsewhere here)

Sensors are mature technology now, there isn't much on the horizon that will radically advance them in themselves.

The big changes in the future are going to come from the processor and supporting logic, because that will allow the camera to do so much more with the sensor. The camera is going to increasingly become more and more computer like. That is where the performance in the future is going to come from. Which is why time is on the side of the manufacturers with strong capabilities in silicon, such as Sony and Samsung, which is largely leveraged by their business interests in the phone market. The Canons and Nikons of the world have their strength in mechanical aspects and optics, not silicon, and they are eventually going to be left behind because of that.

 

[Stu_bert]

Since the a7rII will be available around that date, it would be wise to announce some groundbreaking stuff in the mark 4 by then. Just to make sure some customers will wait a bit more and stay with Canon instead of them running to Sony instead.
Just my two cents in the marketing pot.

I think you are right. I think Canon will want to rain on the Sony Parade, the challenge is how much it will rain on the 5Ds parade, especially if the 1Dx II has amazing DR and a global shutter.
....

The 1DX and 5D/s/sR cameras are in completely different market segments (professionally speaking.) There's no chance of a 1DX-II announcement in August raining on the 5Ds parade. And nor will an August announcement rain on the A7RII parade - bhphotovideo have it starting to ship Aug 10. To compare that with what Sony did, announce the A7RII between when the 5Ds was announced and released.

If anything, if I were Canon I'd want my new camera announced well clear of the A7RII ship date so that there is the maximum potential for press and attention on the 'net.

Any impact of press / releases is not just a single day or a week, so I'm not completely sure how you ascertain no impact. Similarly, although I agree a different market segment between the 1Dx and 5Ds I dont think it would be unheard of to have both, but my original point (perhaps not made well enough), is that if the 1Dx II has 15 stops of DR and you've just shelled out $3.7k on the 5Ds then I think you might be a tad peeved at that announcement.

It would be interesting to know how many people saw the 7rII announcement with the specific claim about Canon lenses, and then either cancelled or have postponed their 5Ds order, based on target market. If Canon CPS is massively important to you, as mentioned earlier, then probably not...

 

[Stu_bert]

The market is shrinking because new bells and whistles are just that, they don't substantively improve IQ in a way that is noticeable to the average user, so the need to upgrade isn't there. Lower demand = lowering sales.

The challenge for manufacturers is to provide significant functionality that doesn't currently exist in cameras in a meaningful way. That is increasingly difficult to do as time goes by. At the moment the biggest single thing a manufacturer can do to enhance the overall utility of a camera is to improve the video capabilities. Stills are mature these days, but video is not, and that is why there is so much emphasis on video in newer models.

Yep. And unless a camera lives or dies based on an evolving ecosystem that forces you to upgrade it often -- cell phones, I am looking at you -- people will just hang on to their very nice cameras that work just fine.

I look at the sensor scores that just got published on the 5DS rigs, and hate on crazy DXO all you want, they basically state what we expected -- the 5DS gets you pixels and little else. I recognize cropping is a powerful tool and more pixels are not a bad thing, but as I don't do many enlargements and I am not a pro who needs all competitive edge they can get, I'll be keeping my 5D3 and not upgrading.

But I don't say that in anger at Canon -- I love my 5D3. We're just not in an age of spectacular advancements with (dedicated) cameras, so buying in every 2-3 years for a new body is a wretched return on investment. I'll save my money for lenses.

- A

To be fair to Canon, the review says their best sensor to date, which given it has over twice the MP of the MK III isnt that shabby. But if you want better ISO DR akin to the D810, then it's not there. But I agree, the most recent "leap" in photography was probably the smartphone, and that was more in terms of portability, usability and flexibility, not the photography tech. Digital sensors are now in the same state as microprocessors. They're on a plateau until some major advancement in science comes along.

Two other interesting points from that review, the DR advantage goes by ISO 800, and lessens in print.

DR is being addressed leveraging their Dual-ISO tech and will be first seen in the 1Dx MK II. Canon would never give us both (a subject much discussed elsewhere here)

Sensors are mature technology now, there isn't much on the horizon that will radically advance them in themselves.

The big changes in the future are going to come from the processor and supporting logic, because that will allow the camera to do so much more with the sensor. The camera is going to increasingly become more and more computer like. That is where the performance in the future is going to come from. Which is why time is on the side of the manufacturers with strong capabilities in silicon, such as Sony and Samsung, which is largely leveraged by their business interests in the phone market. The Canons and Nikons of the world have their strength in mechanical aspects and optics, not silicon, and they are eventually going to be left behind because of that.

I agree with a number of your points - computing is indeed one important element what will accelerate photographic capabilities, and that Sony & Samsung have an advantage in terms of knowledge and cost efficiency...

However, I think you overlook the fact that the reason Nikon squeeze more out of the same sensor than Sony, and how Canon still manage to squeeze a tiny bit more from essentially the same sensor tech as they've had in the past 10 years is indeed their supporting logic aka Digic processors.

Secondly, if Canon and Nikon are reduced to producing optics only, it will shrink their revenue, but not obliterate their market share (which btw I dont think will be the case on the basis)

Thirdly, changes to sensor design (3 layer, different compounds) once perfected may still yield a step up in improvement over current tech.

I agree that there is a shift, and I agree that Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, Pentax and Canon (+ others) need to adapt rapidly. I personally think Canon should acquire a small development company with such expertise, but again that doesnt seem to be their way (cant say if that is generally a Japanese thing, or more specific)...

Finally, I also think that Canon et al have a lot to fear from Apple and Google, who have far more experience in software development than Sony or Samsung, and I think the software will influence the acceleration as much as the underlying hardware...

So long as I can keep my investment in Canon glass, although I like the ergonomics, build and reliability of Canon bodies, I am not so wed to them that I would not consider a migration if there was a powerful enough reason. But as Tom Hogan re-iterated last week, if you can't take a good picture with any of the current generation of cameras then the problem is not with the camera...

 

[3kramd5]

And nor will an August announcement rain on the A7RII parade - bhphotovideo have it starting to ship Aug 10.

I wonder how accurate that is. When I pre ordered it on June 17, the confirmation (BH) said "New Item - Coming Soon", and the website estimated a ship date of July 29. Then it said "August" on the website. It now says August 10. Sony's website recently said August 26, and others say August 30.

I updated my BH order, and the new confirmation changed the verbiage to "New Item, Available for pre-order 08/01/15." I don't know if that means they aren't taking *new* pre-orders until August.

Well now BH says august 5. LOL.

 

[Tugela]

The market is shrinking because new bells and whistles are just that, they don't substantively improve IQ in a way that is noticeable to the average user, so the need to upgrade isn't there. Lower demand = lowering sales.

The challenge for manufacturers is to provide significant functionality that doesn't currently exist in cameras in a meaningful way. That is increasingly difficult to do as time goes by. At the moment the biggest single thing a manufacturer can do to enhance the overall utility of a camera is to improve the video capabilities. Stills are mature these days, but video is not, and that is why there is so much emphasis on video in newer models.

Yep. And unless a camera lives or dies based on an evolving ecosystem that forces you to upgrade it often -- cell phones, I am looking at you -- people will just hang on to their very nice cameras that work just fine.

I look at the sensor scores that just got published on the 5DS rigs, and hate on crazy DXO all you want, they basically state what we expected -- the 5DS gets you pixels and little else. I recognize cropping is a powerful tool and more pixels are not a bad thing, but as I don't do many enlargements and I am not a pro who needs all competitive edge they can get, I'll be keeping my 5D3 and not upgrading.

But I don't say that in anger at Canon -- I love my 5D3. We're just not in an age of spectacular advancements with (dedicated) cameras, so buying in every 2-3 years for a new body is a wretched return on investment. I'll save my money for lenses.

- A

To be fair to Canon, the review says their best sensor to date, which given it has over twice the MP of the MK III isnt that shabby. But if you want better ISO DR akin to the D810, then it's not there. But I agree, the most recent "leap" in photography was probably the smartphone, and that was more in terms of portability, usability and flexibility, not the photography tech. Digital sensors are now in the same state as microprocessors. They're on a plateau until some major advancement in science comes along.

Two other interesting points from that review, the DR advantage goes by ISO 800, and lessens in print.

DR is being addressed leveraging their Dual-ISO tech and will be first seen in the 1Dx MK II. Canon would never give us both (a subject much discussed elsewhere here)

Sensors are mature technology now, there isn't much on the horizon that will radically advance them in themselves.

The big changes in the future are going to come from the processor and supporting logic, because that will allow the camera to do so much more with the sensor. The camera is going to increasingly become more and more computer like. That is where the performance in the future is going to come from. Which is why time is on the side of the manufacturers with strong capabilities in silicon, such as Sony and Samsung, which is largely leveraged by their business interests in the phone market. The Canons and Nikons of the world have their strength in mechanical aspects and optics, not silicon, and they are eventually going to be left behind because of that.

I agree with a number of your points - computing is indeed one important element what will accelerate photographic capabilities, and that Sony & Samsung have an advantage in terms of knowledge and cost efficiency...

However, I think you overlook the fact that the reason Nikon squeeze more out of the same sensor than Sony, and how Canon still manage to squeeze a tiny bit more from essentially the same sensor tech as they've had in the past 10 years is indeed their supporting logic aka Digic processors.

Secondly, if Canon and Nikon are reduced to producing optics only, it will shrink their revenue, but not obliterate their market share (which btw I dont think will be the case on the basis)

Thirdly, changes to sensor design (3 layer, different compounds) once perfected may still yield a step up in improvement over current tech.

I agree that there is a shift, and I agree that Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, Pentax and Canon (+ others) need to adapt rapidly. I personally think Canon should acquire a small development company with such expertise, but again that doesnt seem to be their way (cant say if that is generally a Japanese thing, or more specific)...

Finally, I also think that Canon et al have a lot to fear from Apple and Google, who have far more experience in software development than Sony or Samsung, and I think the software will influence the acceleration as much as the underlying hardware...

So long as I can keep my investment in Canon glass, although I like the ergonomics, build and reliability of Canon bodies, I am not so wed to them that I would not consider a migration if there was a powerful enough reason. But as Tom Hogan re-iterated last week, if you can't take a good picture with any of the current generation of cameras then the problem is not with the camera...

Canon get by with the DIGIC processors basically by stuffing as many of them into the camera as is possible. The mirrorless camera manufacturers get more done with a single processor in most cases than Canon can with three. They will only be able to get by with that approach for so long, eventually the capabilities of the more advanced processors will outstrip their efforts. Sony and Samsung constantly upgrade their silicon technology as a result of competing in the white hot cell phone market, so they can use that to leverage development of their cameras for relatively little cost (since they are doing it anyway). Canon does not have that luxury, and as time goes by their silicon is going to lag further and further behind. All the while the capabilities of the other companies in optics and mechanicals is going to relentlessly improve until Canon/Nikon don't have an advantage there either. Canon may go on for a while due to their historical market share and customer loyalty, but I suspect that Nikon's day is pretty much done. They will be the next big casualty in the market war IMO.

This lead in the silicon side of things by the big mirrorless centric companies is why Canon/Nikon are the sad sacks in the consumer end of the market. It is only a matter of time before the same thing happens in the higher ends of the market as well.

 

[TheJock]

This lead in the silicon side of things by the big mirrorless centric companies is why Canon/Nikon are the sad sacks in the consumer end of the market. It is only a matter of time before the same thing happens in the higher ends of the market as well.

I think that Canon and Nikon will be around for a while yet!
Both have excelled in their products over the years and these “new kids on the block” (Samsung & Sony) might be releasing outstanding sensors, but the product loyalty that people feel using their Canon and Nikon cameras won’t be changed by these sensors. It’s like computer processors, you buy the best today and by the time you get home and set the thing up there’s a newer, faster computer on the market!!
What I do believe is that people will buy a secondary body (Samsung? Sony!) with one of these excellent sensors, but they won’t off-load their life long acquired Canon/Nikon gear in a hurry, and the decision to buy this second body will lie with compatibility with their existing gear.
I’m relatively new to the game, and I frequent this forum on a daily basis (alarming! ) and I am very well aware of the whole argument comparing other manufacturers against Canon, but I’m still looking at buying a 5D3 when the price drops a little upon the announcement of the 5D4 rather than looking at buying a Sony, and I’m not alone with my decision based on what I read on here!!

 

[Tugela]

This lead in the silicon side of things by the big mirrorless centric companies is why Canon/Nikon are the sad sacks in the consumer end of the market. It is only a matter of time before the same thing happens in the higher ends of the market as well.

I think that Canon and Nikon will be around for a while yet!
Both have excelled in their products over the years and these “new kids on the block” (Samsung & Sony) might be releasing outstanding sensors, but the product loyalty that people feel using their Canon and Nikon cameras won’t be changed by these sensors. It’s like computer processors, you buy the best today and by the time you get home and set the thing up there’s a newer, faster computer on the market!!
What I do believe is that people will buy a secondary body (Samsung? Sony!) with one of these excellent sensors, but they won’t off-load their life long acquired Canon/Nikon gear in a hurry, and the decision to buy this second body will lie with compatibility with their existing gear.
I’m relatively new to the game, and I frequent this forum on a daily basis (alarming! ) and I am very well aware of the whole argument comparing other manufacturers against Canon, but I’m still looking at buying a 5D3 when the price drops a little upon the announcement of the 5D4 rather than looking at buying a Sony, and I’m not alone with my decision based on what I read on here!!

That is the IBM/Xerox way of thinking. Where are those companies today? They are shadows of their former glory because they failed to embrace the direction technology was going.

 

[Stu_bert]

This lead in the silicon side of things by the big mirrorless centric companies is why Canon/Nikon are the sad sacks in the consumer end of the market. It is only a matter of time before the same thing happens in the higher ends of the market as well.

I think that Canon and Nikon will be around for a while yet!
Both have excelled in their products over the years and these “new kids on the block” (Samsung & Sony) might be releasing outstanding sensors, but the product loyalty that people feel using their Canon and Nikon cameras won’t be changed by these sensors. It’s like computer processors, you buy the best today and by the time you get home and set the thing up there’s a newer, faster computer on the market!!
What I do believe is that people will buy a secondary body (Samsung? Sony!) with one of these excellent sensors, but they won’t off-load their life long acquired Canon/Nikon gear in a hurry, and the decision to buy this second body will lie with compatibility with their existing gear.
I’m relatively new to the game, and I frequent this forum on a daily basis (alarming! ) and I am very well aware of the whole argument comparing other manufacturers against Canon, but I’m still looking at buying a 5D3 when the price drops a little upon the announcement of the 5D4 rather than looking at buying a Sony, and I’m not alone with my decision based on what I read on here!!

That is the IBM/Xerox way of thinking. Where are those companies today? They are shadows of their former glory because they failed to embrace the direction technology was going.

Sorry, couldn't resist.... Taken from The Register (jun 15):

"Samsung has just recorded its seventh quarterly loss in a row, despite producing the year's best flagship. HTC lost 24p on every pound of revenue. Sony's smartphone division is dragging down the rest of the group, losing £1bn last year."

Apple is making a profit, the Android manufacturers are all struggling. I don't disagree that it's a different market and far more competitive.....