Canon Camera Sales Down in Q2, Imaging Revenue Up

[blacksap]

Keep adding no significant upgrades to your cameras and this is what happens canon, the evolution from t4i to t5i is inexistent.

What "significant" upgrades could they add?

It seems like they have done quite a bit. The AF in the 5DIII was a pretty significant upgrade over that of the 5DII. The new sensor in the 70D is pretty innovative.

let use what it means pictures wise, innovative AF yes but how accurate, f-2,8 ?

Works fine for me at 2.8 on the lenses I have. However (as we should ALL know): 1. the DOF is shorter at 2.8 so issues are more pronounced. 2. The AF is a machine which is not necessarily perfect (and probably should not be expected to be so).

And… lastly, my previous experience was the 5DII over which the 5DIII represents a pretty dramatic improvement (in almost all areas).

What I see in the last few years is that the DSLR has become a commodity product at each level with the two main competitors (Nikon / Canon) struggling to differentiate themselves from one another in any way possible and the third one, Sony is struggling to get their foot in the door. I don’t think that the market share has shifted too much in the last few years.

I´m sorry I don´t know if I read correctly, but the article says the sales went down on lower end models, I have a 5DMKIII, and I am very pleased, waiting for the 70d, I am talking about consumer level cameras, the T3i,4i,t5i level.

And I do believe that all modern companies keep their products a step down so they have good reasons to release the newer version (except maybe for the GH series on panasonic), but this is part of marketing.

 

[MLfan3]

now let us wait for nikon and sony numbers......

In the past when Canon coughed, it was a sign that the whole industry had a cold. You will probably see similar results from the others, particularly Sony whose entire consumer electronics business seems to be in the financial “hurt locker” anyway.

actually Sony is almost half bankrupted company and I think it will go bankrupt in a few years unless it decides to quit the A mount.

I am really hoping Sony to wake up soon and concentrate all its imaging R and D money in to the E mount before it's too late, the RX-1 is a temporal hit for them but it won't make any money in the long run.
Full frame NEX is the only thing give them some meaningful success in this game.

 

[MLfan3]

their sales went down because they dont have anything smart to offer to consumers. 100d, 700d, 60d? same old technology, nothing new. 70d will probably change that, but 2-3 months before it gets to store? absolute bollocks

canon, nikon, sony,.. most profit comes from entry level dslrs.

Everyone I know recently has purchased a Canon entry level camera. A lot particularly like the small-ish size of the 100D, one purchased the 60Da for astrophotography. Not a single one purchased a Nikon or a Sony. The one guy I do know who purchased a Nikon in the last year bought a D800 for his professional portraiture.

I agree that a significant portion of profit generally comes from the higher volume items that sell like hotcakes to the massive consumer sector...however I don't believe that primarily means Canon is not selling entry-level products.

I do believe the economy factors in here. It may seem like we have "recovered", but the fundamental issues that caused financial markets to crash five years ago are still in place. They are just glossed over, hidden, ignored, or otherwise skirted around by any and all parties who have the power to actually change something. Until that underlying fact changes *for real*, I think people are going to keep a tight watch on their pocket books. That doesn't mean people in general (and I don't just mean the US, but in general for any moderately large or larger economy) will stop spending entirely...just that they will continue to be more careful with their purchases.

Just look at the PC market...it used to race...people would upgrade their computers every couple of years. Now? People are content to save $1000, $1500, $2500 and keep using their current PC, and augment it with a tablet or a phone that only costs $400, $600, $800 instead. People on a mass scale won't regularly start buying PCs to replace their existing ones, or buy more expensive cameras, or more expensive lenses, etc. on a regular basis again until the underlying economic force that is subtly telling them to save their money truly changes for the better.

by any means , Nikon is doing it much worse , too many people ditch their Nikon FX to go Canon or Sony last year desite of much over hyped D800 and E,which I still own.

the D800 series had too many real life usability issues and maybe the sensor is great it hasn't helped Nikon in sales.
the D600 has actually helped it but it also had a lot of design flaws, and that forced many many Nikon users(not fans) to see the light.
and some of us added Canons, or Sonys or something else , or just moved away from Nikon because of its terrible QC and some hugely hurting design flaws in the D600 and D800 bodies.

 

[MLfan3]

Keep adding no significant upgrades to your cameras and this is what happens canon, the evolution from t4i to t5i is inexistent.

What "significant" upgrades could they add?

It seems like they have done quite a bit. The AF in the 5DIII was a pretty significant upgrade over that of the 5DII. The new sensor in the 70D is pretty innovative.

the 70 D to me is a revolutionary product , rather than an innovative one.

 

[MLfan3]

Keep adding no significant upgrades to your cameras and this is what happens canon, the evolution from t4i to t5i is inexistent.

What "significant" upgrades could they add?

It seems like they have done quite a bit. The AF in the 5DIII was a pretty significant upgrade over that of the 5DII. The new sensor in the 70D is pretty innovative.

let use what it means pictures wise, innovative AF yes but how accurate, f-2,8 ?

it is interesting( at least to some) because it is the very very first step to produce a pro level mirrorless system camera, with really usable AF for both still and motion.
I think we will see a 5D class of body uses this tech sooner than we expect , and this tech simultaneously improves sensor DR and structural design.

 

[c.d.embrey]

From what I can tell, mirror-less cameras are selling like hotcakes, and where is Canon or Nikon in that market space?

It all depends on where you live. In SoCal the Sony NEX is easy to buy (Sony Stores), A few camera stores have a few Fuji X, Olympus and Panasonic are special order from most stores.

Here's something Thom Hogan posted a while back: "I've tried to point out that things weren't quite so wonderful in terms of mirrorless camera sales before, and some of you haven't believed me." CIPA shipment numbers for both Mirrorless and DSLRs http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/april-2013/mirrorless-shipments-down.html

From what little I've seen is some Pros are switching from DSLRs to mirrorless, but not many consumers. Me. I've taken ALL my SLRs (both film and digital) off of my Business Insurance. I'll be renting cameras by the job, ie what ever is the right tool (Canon 5D3, Nikon D800, Panasonic GH3, MFD). Hopefully someone will release a camera (and lenses) that I want to buy before the year is out.

 

[UrbanVoyeur]

I think Canon is losing sales to competitors with less expensive, higher res, better performing sensors and better equipped camera in both the mirror less and SLR markets.

After more than a year, Canon still does not have a 30+ MP answer to Sony/Nikon. And while sharp, their L lenses are horrendously expensive and losing the innovation race to Sigma and Niko with their upgradeable firmware.

I'm not saying Canon is doomed or anything, but they are slipping.

 

[Loswr]

I'm not saying Canon is doomed or anything, but they are slipping.

Doesn the dSLR market share breakdown support that assertion?

 

[gmrza]

Just look at the PC market...it used to race...people would upgrade their computers every couple of years. Now? People are content to save $1000, $1500, $2500 and keep using their current PC, and augment it with a tablet or a phone that only costs $400, $600, $800 instead. People on a mass scale won't regularly start buying PCs to replace their existing ones, or buy more expensive cameras, or more expensive lenses, etc. on a regular basis again until the underlying economic force that is subtly telling them to save their money truly changes for the better.

I think there is also an element of technology maturing - as you put it. The last time I bought a compact camera was 4 years ago (a G11). The G15 hasn't seen a huge increase in performance over the G11. The main reason I now have to replace my current compact is that it is wearing out, not that there is something that much astoundingly better than it.

For landscapes, I tend to reach for the 5DII - it's just as good as the 5DIII for that kind of purpose.

(FWIW, I am still using a 6 year old notebook for some stuff like email and web browsing...)

 

[jrista]

Just look at the PC market...it used to race...people would upgrade their computers every couple of years. Now? People are content to save $1000, $1500, $2500 and keep using their current PC, and augment it with a tablet or a phone that only costs $400, $600, $800 instead. People on a mass scale won't regularly start buying PCs to replace their existing ones, or buy more expensive cameras, or more expensive lenses, etc. on a regular basis again until the underlying economic force that is subtly telling them to save their money truly changes for the better.

I think there is also an element of technology maturing - as you put it. The last time I bought a compact camera was 4 years ago (a G11). The G15 hasn't seen a huge increase in performance over the G11. The main reason I now have to replace my current compact is that it is wearing out, not that there is something that much astoundingly better than it.

For landscapes, I tend to reach for the 5DII - it's just as good as the 5DIII for that kind of purpose.

(FWIW, I am still using a 6 year old notebook for some stuff like email and web browsing...)

Aye, there is that, too. Technology still moves on, but in some areas its about as good as it is going to get, with the exception of continued improvements in speed, I imagine.

One would also have to figure that many technology markets become saturated. Millions of people own PCs. At least as many millions of people own compact cameras, if not considerably more. Billions of people own cell phones with cameras. Unless someone finds massive new groups of consumers somewhere, I suspect a lot of existing markets will begin to slow down until something revolutionary is discovered or refined and brought to market (maybe something like lightfield photography).

 

[gmrza]

One would also have to figure that many technology markets become saturated. Millions of people own PCs. At least as many millions of people own compact cameras, if not considerably more. Billions of people own cell phones with cameras. Unless someone finds massive new groups of consumers somewhere, I suspect a lot of existing markets will begin to slow down until something revolutionary is discovered or refined and brought to market (maybe something like lightfield photography).

That is exactly it. The first digital cameras we all bought were not up to the tasks we wanted to put them to. Now we are in a position where the technology is good enough for the use cases most of us have. - For instance, for most of portrait work, you don't need anything better than a 5DII - unless you need output to a very large format, or you need a lot of dynamic range (as two examples where you might need something better). For the most part, most DSLRs are now outperforming 35mm SLRs, and have eaten a good part of medium format's lunch.

The same applies to compact cameras - their output is better than any film compact ever produced, and more than good enough for most consumers. Heck - phones are producing better photos man film compacts could!

For the most part, digital photography technology is "good enough" and the main reason to upgrade is now for many people only the need to replace a broken, lost or stolen item.

As you rightly point out - camera manufacturers need something disruptive to drive the market back to what it was for the first 10 to 12 years of this century.

 

[fvaron]

Well no wonder, this time last year the 5DIII was still new and hot on the market. What do we have now? Cut price EOS M? Still waiting for 70D, no sign of 7DII and some speculation about a 80MP camera. Obviously their digital camera sales are lower this quarter!

I was not surprised at all due to economic factors and making the "prosumers" wait for them to take forever in rolling out a new product.

 

[RGF]

Smart phones are saturating the market. People don't care about image quality - 40+MP smart phone. What type of IQ will you get? Wait a few years, cameras will make a come back, especially when someone marries a smart phone with a quality P&S.

 

[jrista]

Smart phones are saturating the market. People don't care about image quality - 40+MP smart phone. What type of IQ will you get?

When it is downsampled to a quarter of that, it actually gets you quite a lot. In Pro photography mode, the Lumia 1020 allows you to zoom and crop as well, and while it is not quite on par with APS-C or FF DSLR IQ, neither is it bad.

Wait a few years, cameras will make a come back, especially when someone marries a smart phone with a quality P&S.

From what I've been reading the last few months, the increase in phones with decent cameras has actually spurred an increase in demand for DSLR and high end mirrorless cameras in established markets. Analysts suspect that there is some kind of IQ conversion factor, where people figure out they enjoy photography by using their phones, and want more.

I think the Lumia is getting pretty close to a marriage between a P&S and a Smart Phone. It has Xenon flash, a six-element Zeiss lens with optical image stabilization, a high resolution sensor that produces some very good IQ for what it is (best in the business as far as smart phone cameras go, manufactured with the latest technology that...as far as the technology itself goes, far outpaces anything Canon produces as of yet), as well as a host of photography related accessories and professional grade photography software (i.e. total control of all the same exposure factors as you can on a DSLR or Mirrorless).

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

now let us wait for nikon and sony numbers......

In the past when Canon coughed, it was a sign that the whole industry had a cold. You will probably see similar results from the others, particularly Sony whose entire consumer electronics business seems to be in the financial “hurt locker” anyway.

actually Sony is almost half bankrupted company and I think it will go bankrupt in a few years unless it decides to quit the A mount.

I am really hoping Sony to wake up soon and concentrate all its imaging R and D money in to the E mount before it's too late, the RX-1 is a temporal hit for them but it won't make any money in the long run.
Full frame NEX is the only thing give them some meaningful success in this game.

Sony is hurting due to their TV and phone sales. Cameras are doing well for them, as are sales of sensors.

 

[J.R.]

now let us wait for nikon and sony numbers......

In the past when Canon coughed, it was a sign that the whole industry had a cold. You will probably see similar results from the others, particularly Sony whose entire consumer electronics business seems to be in the financial “hurt locker” anyway.

actually Sony is almost half bankrupted company and I think it will go bankrupt in a few years unless it decides to quit the A mount.

I am really hoping Sony to wake up soon and concentrate all its imaging R and D money in to the E mount before it's too late, the RX-1 is a temporal hit for them but it won't make any money in the long run.
Full frame NEX is the only thing give them some meaningful success in this game.

Sony is hurting due to their TV and phone sales. Cameras are doing well for them, as are sales of sensors.

Is this information available in the public domain? I remember seeing the Sony annual report combining the imaging and a number of other electronic products into a single segment.

 

[jrista]

now let us wait for nikon and sony numbers......

In the past when Canon coughed, it was a sign that the whole industry had a cold. You will probably see similar results from the others, particularly Sony whose entire consumer electronics business seems to be in the financial “hurt locker” anyway.

actually Sony is almost half bankrupted company and I think it will go bankrupt in a few years unless it decides to quit the A mount.

I am really hoping Sony to wake up soon and concentrate all its imaging R and D money in to the E mount before it's too late, the RX-1 is a temporal hit for them but it won't make any money in the long run.
Full frame NEX is the only thing give them some meaningful success in this game.

Sony is hurting due to their TV and phone sales. Cameras are doing well for them, as are sales of sensors.

Is this information available in the public domain? I remember seeing the Sony annual report combining the imaging and a number of other electronic products into a single segment.

Ditto...last I read, Sony's "electronics" division (which includes IC manufacture and cameras) was losing ~8-9 billion a year, and that they were primarily making money selling insurance policies...

 

[theyapici]

smartphones broke down compackt cameras sales looks like s4

 

[mjbehnke]

Yes, you are correct, Sony makes most of it's money by selling insurance. Here's that article regarding the electronics division, which does not do well and looses money on everything they sell.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-bread-and-butter-its-not-electronics.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Matthew

 

[Aglet]

the D800 series had too many real life usability issues..

I'd love to know what these are, just so I might avoid running into them.
I don't have to rely on my d800/e to make a living, I like using them because they get me the shot I want with a more maleable raw file than anything else. So I'm very curious about what you find to be, "real life usability issues." IMO, they're the least-compromised and most affordable high quality imaging machine available for my needs.

..moved away from Nikon because of its terrible QC and some hugely hurting design flaws in the D600 and D800 bodies.

I think all mfrs have had their share of QC issues, perhaps Nikon a bit more visibly so lately, but I've had nothing worse than one oil droplet show up on a d800's sensor and the d5100's do regularly vex me with misaligned mirrors that cause tilted shots compared to the viewfinder yet some people will say that's nitpicking. I don't like the d600's merely because of how they (don't) fit my hand.
I've not had any AF or other issues in my early model d800s; they work so well they make me smile when I use them.