Ladislav said:
Time to join political discussion - sorry folks but I can't help myself.
@rfdesigner - respect. Very well written post and probably a type of information people were supposed to get from both camps.
I'm EU citizen (Czech) living in UK for past 3 years. I came to UK because US technology company offered me a job here so I simply decided to have a bit of adventure with no risks as it was within EU and still close to home. I never considered this a permanent relocation. It is just a new experience and than I will move back.
I don't claim any benefits, I'm even not eligible. I don't have children yet so I don't put pressure on local schools. When I or my wife need health care treatment and it is not urgent we actually travel back to Czech republic (always for dentist) as British healthcare totally failed our expectations. IMHO NHS stands most probably for No Healthcare System. On the other hand I give tens of thousands pounds per year on my taxes to British treasury.
A lot of what I heard during campaign was offensive to people like me. Before the campaign I felt like foreigner working in another EU country but after what was said in past few months I sometimes feel like and unwanted immigrant (in the worst meaning) and burden for UK economy.
I'm caught of guard by the Brexit vote result. Not because I don't respect the result, democracy or British people or because I'm very fond of EU but because I don't like uncertainty. Right now I feel a lot of uncertainty in my life and the uncertainty is not related only to my stay in UK but also to the future of EU affecting Czech republic as well. Any business in general feels this uncertainty - that is why Canon CEO said that.
Let me ask you a question:
A lot was said about influx of EU citizens coming to UK but when the real number are put on the table, is it really so bad?
- UK population: 65M
- EU citizens: 3.3M
- UK expats in EU: 1.2M
That makes net influx of EU people to UK 2.1M - some 3.2% of the population. Consider all the claims of the EU immigration impact on social and health system, schools, housing and even transport. Now tell me - do you really think that 3% increase in population (slowly growing over many years) is really what put the pressure on all public services? Isn't this just hiding incompetency of many people in charge behind an external factor which is easy to blame?
Off course there is a question about how to slow down the influx of EU people to already overcrowded country but what about non-EU migrants? Why is EU migration blamed so much when UK government is not able to control even non-EU migration where they have all the tools available?
I'm also pretty interested how will Brexiters work on all those trade deals they promised. A simple example:
A lot was said about pursuing trade deal with China which would benefit British economy. I know nothing about trade deals but it seems to me that in discussion of such a deal China would be superior to make demands before it even happens. In my opinion free trade with China would make issues with cheap China's steel crushing British steel industry (Port Talbot) look really minor.
Anyway it will be very interesting to see how this ends up and what deal will Britons get at the end - mean how far it will be from what was promised during populist campaign. I made few friends here and I wish you guys all the best in this leap of faith.
I think your experience of the NHS is most unfortunate, in my experiece it has been pretty good, but local problems do make certain areas less than desirable, I suspect that is the same the world over. Life expectancy in the UK is higher (just) than the US, and it wouldn't be if the NHS was really all that bad, I would argue if you are seriously ill the HNS can be great, if you've just got a tooth ache then no it isn't terribly good.
Pressure of numbers: 2M in 65M doesn't sound like that much.. problem is the rate of those incomming, which is about 150% of the natural growth. Property prices don't reflect the overall pressure, but that at the margins, i.e. not the pressure of putting 65million people into homes for 63 million, but putting say 4 million people who need new homes now into homes for 2 million. Also note, the majority of migrants are of an age between leaving full time education and beginning a family.. so your 2M extra are primarily in one very small age group, one that given a few years is requiring school places, this is where the pressure on school places for my youngest is comming from (substantially bigger classes, much fewer school choices), my eldest two being that much older are unaffected.
I never claimed (unlike some politicians who I am less than keen on) that the NHS was the way it was because of immigration, the primary reasons for NHS problems are: bureaucracy of the NHS, aging populaiton, people taking it for granted (my sister in law works for the NHS and the number of missed apointments is criminal).. it could also do with more funding.. but that has always been true.
Non-EU migration can also be a problem for some areas, the EU is slightly to blame for that as it can provide back doors (though I forget the exact mechanism), but the UK governemnt is also to blame. Point is once we're out the governing party can no longer blame the EU for half the countries ills, it will be their fault through and through which will make it easier to hold the slimy toe rags to account.
Now I voted not on where the UK is right now but on the trend from past to potential future if nothing changes, and I look at my kids and realised their chances are being eroded every year.. so hence I voted the way I did.
Trade Deals.. This is going to be a problem, equally it isn't as big a problem as is usually incinuated. Too many people run around saying "there's no trade deal" like you need a trade deal to be able to trade at all, trading without one isn't as good, but you usually can trade. Of course we will need to rebuild our diplomatic core competancies after they were destroyed when we joined the EU.. so it's not a quick fix, but my timeframe extends beyond the middle of next week, I voted on my childrens and my grand childrens future.
I also wish you the very best, under an "australian based points system" (to quote a phrase) I'm sure you'd still get in.
