Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades

[jondave]

Wait what? Can someone elaborate on this? Does this mean the 5d3 doesn't spot meter exposure with points other than the center?

The reason why im concerned is because alot of my shots with the 5d3 always end up underexposed even though the on camera light meter says its spot on.

Seriously? AF-point spot metering has always been a 1 series only feature. Whoever gave you the idea the 5D3 could do this? (Hopefully not the sales guy who sold it to you)

But going back to the topic on hand, this is a good marketing move. Get the early adopters first, then entice the holdouts later. And along with the steady price drops, this keeps the sales rolling along.

 

[samueljay]

For those wondering about the Uncompressed HDMI out and why it's important, in the most basic sense, the video files that the 5D creates are compressed .movs with a h264 codec, in a color space of 4:2:0, what this means is that you don't have much latitude to play around with colors or video levels in post (think of it as RAW vs. JPEG) H264's also aren't immediately ready to edit with (of course you can if you want to, but they really should be transcoded to a different codec such as Apple Pro Res before editing)

What the Uncompressed Output with HDMI allows with the aid of an external recorder (such as the Atomos Samurai) is to record in the Apple Pro Res HQ codec (perfect for editing straight away and the same format the $60,0000 Arri Alexa cinema camera records in (what they shoot Mad Men on)) in a color space of 4:2:2, which gives you more latitude to grade (grading is post processing video) with. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense, and makes it a bit clearer that this feature isn't really for the average consumer shooting a bit of video on their HDSLR, it's more for the Pro's / Enthusiasts who are looking for a bit more flexibility and convenience in post production.

 

[distant.star]

.
So kind of them to tell us all about their winter project.

Perhaps we should all send Canon news of our winter projects.

As I've said before, trying to figure out Canon's reasoning is like staring at the sun hoping to see a hydrogen atom. You'll never see it, and you'll go blind in the process.

Well, I'm off to start my winter project!

 

[jon_charron]

The reason for April release is a marketing strategy. This keeps the body selling now in anticipation of the new features, particularly to the video crowd. The video crowd was a huge market for the 5D II, and is what kept sales strong for so long. With so many other options for video in their line, and new models soon to be announced, as well as other competitor offerings that include uncompressed HDMI out, they have to set the hook now on all the people sitting on the 5D III fence.It also gives them 6 months to sell some of their slightly more expensive alternatives with better quality video. It's brilliant.

 

[Quackator]

Don't see the need for uncompressed hdmi - (...)

Have you ever tried to pull focus manually on an external monitor?

With 480p that works much less than with 1080p.
I use a digital TV with a 22" screen for focus pulling,
and I look forward very much to this release.

 

[hmmm]

Precedent for f8 AF -- not just for the 1 Series

OK, a trip into the archives and I found this on page 50 of the EOS 3 user manual:

"(3) With the following lenses, if the maximum aperture is
anywhere from f/6.7 to f/8 when an Extender is
attached, the center focusing point will be sensitive to
horizontal lines only. The other focusing points cannot
be used for AF.
• With Extender EF 1.4x:
400/5.6L, 500/4.5L, 100-400/4.5-5.6L IS
• With Extender EF 2x:
300/4L, 300/4L IS, 500/4L IS, 600/4L,
600/4L IS, 70-200/4L"

So it is not unreasonable to expect a 5D mkIII to af at f8 with the central point (or points). Not unreasonable to expect that of a 7D mk II either, I say.

 

[rpt]

I will take any freebies Canon decides to uncripple my way... F8 AF is welcome!

400mm F5.6 with 1.4iii now possible.

Yes!

I don't see anybody else happy about f/8 AF! For me looks like procrastination works. I have been mulling over the purchase of a 1.4x Kenko and this sorts it out - on the first of April next year

 

[corpusrex]

Do you think Canons decision to go ahead with giving us clean uncompressed HDMI out was anything to do with ML making clean HDMI available? I mean, lets face it, they would still be using a Canon cam with ML so not a lot of real commercial reasons to do so. I would have thought it more likely announced to stop people from jumping ship to something like the Blackmagic Cine cam, especially with the 6 month lead time till the Firmware release.

Wow. Bravo on adding uncompressed HDMI! But I guess they might have had to since ML just did it.

I'm confused by adding f8 support and not AF point illunimation...

 

[rpt]

Feature requirements get defined very early in the product lifecycle. I am sure there is a spreadsheet somewhere in Canon that is owned by marketing that lists all features needed and a column for the expected release version (or may be it is part of their PLM software). I would be very surprised if these features got added recently as a result of a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[rpt]

I would be impressed if the they announced the 5D MKIV to be released that date.

They should outsource changes of software more. Developers outside Canon are faster in developing new features for the cameras and devices that connect to cameras.

Great point... the world of software development has advanced eons form Canon's 80's dev model... I guess it will happen once they bring fresh new blood at the top...

I disagree about outsourcing software or any critical part of product engineering. To me it is plain stupid. You are paying somebody to become your competitor in 10 to 20 years! Apparently many large companies (and I am talking Fortune 50 companies) are beginning to un-subcontract their engineering...

Fresh blood, shake the tree and all that is a given... Can't do without it.

 

[victorwol]

For those wondering about the Uncompressed HDMI out and why it's important, in the most basic sense, the video files that the 5D creates are compressed .movs with a h264 codec, in a color space of 4:2:0, what this means is that you don't have much latitude to play around with colors or video levels in post (think of it as RAW vs. JPEG) H264's also aren't immediately ready to edit with (of course you can if you want to, but they really should be transcoded to a different codec such as Apple Pro Res before editing)

What the Uncompressed Output with HDMI allows with the aid of an external recorder (such as the Atomos Samurai) is to record in the Apple Pro Res HQ codec (perfect for editing straight away and the same format the $60,0000 Arri Alexa cinema camera records in (what they shoot Mad Men on)) in a color space of 4:2:2, which gives you more latitude to grade (grading is post processing video) with. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense, and makes it a bit clearer that this feature isn't really for the average consumer shooting a bit of video on their HDSLR, it's more for the Pro's / Enthusiasts who are looking for a bit more flexibility and convenience in post production.

It's great to get an HDMI output. But comparing it to an Alexa is going a bit too far... The Alexa can record RAW and 4:4:4 and also output HDSDI 10 bits. Of course you will probably get something beautiful and muuuuch better than today. But for sure wont rival the RED Epic and Alexa... We still have to see the quality of that HDMI output. Noise, etc. I get everyday people coming to our shop with prosumer cameras footage recorded in a Samurai thinking will be as good as a big camera just because is recorded in Prores... Ajjjjj... Grading that crap is so nasty...

 

[pwp]

April 2013? You mean April 1st 2013? Because in that case everything is explained

Hah hah! The absence of the red AF points for 5D3 has the definite ring of an April Fools Day joke from Canon. The awkward truth probably is that it's not happening. Very unfortunate for this 5D3 shooter.

-PW

 

[pwp]

Politics and conspiracy theories aside ...
It is entirely possible the exclusion (at least for now) of the AI-servo AF illumination for 5D3 may be a technical one.

I trust we all understood why AF illumination was avoided in the first place -- interference with the on-board metering system. It was due to popular demand that Canon have since come up with a clever, although quirky, work around with the 1D X. Perhaps it is the lack of an RGB metering system that precluded the same work around from working reliably, if at all, on the 5D3 (and 7D too should they decide to). The red RGB channel could have provided the necessary reference feedback to actively tune out the LED illumination interference through software. This magic trickery may not be feasible with the color-blind 5D3/7D metering sensor.

Frankly I'd comfortably tolerate any slight metering discrepancies in a heartbeat in order to have constantly illuminated red AF points in AI Servo & One Shot. This type of visual information has been industry standard for as long as I can remember and it works well. I'm still mildly astonished that Canon saw fit to switch from neat, functional, visible illuminated red to occasionally visible black.

-PW

 

[gmrza]

Re: Precedent for f8 AF -- not just for the 1 Series

So it is not unreasonable to expect a 5D mkIII to af at f8 with the central point (or points). Not unreasonable to expect that of a 7D mk II either, I say.

I doubt the 7D line will ever see f/8 AF - the precedent to date is only that cameras having Canon's top of the line AF system have had the capability.

From my perspective, I am really glad Canon is adding this for the 5DIII - it certainly shows Canon is giving the 5D line a level of attention that a body below the 1D line has not received since the EOS 3.

I've been considering getting some longer glass, and this news now widens my choices: once our 7D reaches the end of its life, that gives a way of getting the same level of reach on full frame, as I have doubts about buying another crop frame DSLR.

300/f4 IS with 2x TC, or 400/f5.6 with 1.4x TC become viable options now.

 

[Bosman]

Canon sure is hit and miss on creating great products that have a good user experience...Someone thought it was cool that we get a "free" update. Is this kind of talk to make us feel better or is Canon starting to plan on rolling out updates at a cost? Look at the 7D, its at the end of its product cycle but they recently added UDMA7 support among other things. It really is BS. Wish there was more competition...
Snd in response to someone who said this isn't a pro camera...tell that to the Canon Rep.

 

[candyman]

Despite what some people think: in my opinion the Canon 5D MK III with a price of €3000 IS a pro-camera. And, it should be updated with illuminated red AF points in AI Servo. There is still a big difference between the 1D X and 5D MK III where the pro-sports photographer would choose the 1D X instead of 5D MK III. The 5D MK III is not a competitor.
The Canon phrase "free upgrade" makes me wonder of they really think customers would be thankful for that or customers have to worry that this kind of update will not be free in the future. It is possible that they will charge customers in the future since they understand that certain features are important to some customers who are prepared to pay for it. It is another way to milk the cow.

 

[samueljay]

For those wondering about the Uncompressed HDMI out and why it's important, in the most basic sense, the video files that the 5D creates are compressed .movs with a h264 codec, in a color space of 4:2:0, what this means is that you don't have much latitude to play around with colors or video levels in post (think of it as RAW vs. JPEG) H264's also aren't immediately ready to edit with (of course you can if you want to, but they really should be transcoded to a different codec such as Apple Pro Res before editing)

What the Uncompressed Output with HDMI allows with the aid of an external recorder (such as the Atomos Samurai) is to record in the Apple Pro Res HQ codec (perfect for editing straight away and the same format the $60,0000 Arri Alexa cinema camera records in (what they shoot Mad Men on)) in a color space of 4:2:2, which gives you more latitude to grade (grading is post processing video) with. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense, and makes it a bit clearer that this feature isn't really for the average consumer shooting a bit of video on their HDSLR, it's more for the Pro's / Enthusiasts who are looking for a bit more flexibility and convenience in post production.

It's great to get an HDMI output. But comparing it to an Alexa is going a bit too far... The Alexa can record RAW and 4:4:4 and also output HDSDI 10 bits. Of course you will probably get something beautiful and muuuuch better than today. But for sure wont rival the RED Epic and Alexa... We still have to see the quality of that HDMI output. Noise, etc. I get everyday people coming to our shop with prosumer cameras footage recorded in a Samurai thinking will be as good as a big camera just because is recorded in Prores... Ajjjjj... Grading that crap is so nasty...

Ah of course not, the Alexa is an amazing camera, I was just trying to put it in layman terms so to speak, that by using an external recorder you can record into an edit ready format that even some of the best cameras use. It by no means was meant to imply that you're going to get similar results to a $60k cine camera. Sorry for the confusion. Of course, DSLR footage is still just that, and can't come close to anything from the Red or Alexa.

 

[Marsu42]

It is entirely possible the exclusion (at least for now) of the AI-servo AF illumination for 5D3 may be a technical one.

Maybe apart from the metering the solution they did on the 1dx requires too much processing power and the dual digic5 (af tracking AND eventually re-calculating exposure all the time because obviously the af point illumination screws it up)? If so, Canon should at least inofficially say so to stop users hoping for it!

And they should tell us why it takes so long for the next firmware, just "April 2013" is really a joke (knowing Canon, that'll be not before April 30 23:59). If the sole reason is to protect the 1dx and give it a headstart that'd be typical Canon. Maybe someone with Canon contacts can check for us.

 

[eason_c]

People always want more. The August 2013 update might give 5D3 12FPS.

 

[Quackator]

It's great to get an HDMI output. But comparing it to an Alexa is going a bit too far...

Is it? Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout 2012 - Part One: Starting With Darkness on Vimeo

I agree with you on the grading part, and definitely an iphone 4s requires much more effort
to deliver anything usable. But "revenge of the great Zacuto shootout" shows very well that
the camera is nothing without the talent driving it.