Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Being Tested by Photographers

[ahsanford]

the metering might be much worse again with maybe no spot linked to AF point again? (just a guess, although other brands offer it at lower prices)

Famously, I have a bone to pick about this -- I've said numerous times that a budget Nikon D5500 has this, my iPhone has this, etc.

Of the following list of potential 5D4 improvements over my 5D3 (some certain / some possible / some hopeful / some dreaming):

[list type=decimal]
[*]General improvement to IQ (read: broadly. Better DR, high ISO, etc.
[*]Higher fps
[*]Larger buffer
[*]More resolution
[*]Automated AFMA onboard
[*]1DX II AF system (as close as the 1DX to 5D3 was -- same number/type/spread of points, perhaps not the same lickety split performance)
[*]1DX II metering, including spot metering at the selected AF point
[*]4K
[*]Onboard radio master, no external transmitter required
[*]Base ISO < 100 (ISO 50, ISO 64, etc.)
[*]Tilty-flippy screen
[/list]

Given that entire list, spot metering at any AF point might be 3rd most important to me behind general IQ and the AF system. Not kidding.

- A

 

[romanr74]

the metering might be much worse again with maybe no spot linked to AF point again? (just a guess, although other brands offer it at lower prices)

Famously, I have a bone to pick about this -- I've said numerous times that a budget Nikon D5500 has this, my iPhone has this, etc.

Of the following list of potential 5D4 improvements over my 5D3 (some certain / some possible / some hopeful / some dreaming):

[list type=decimal]
[*]General improvement to IQ (read: broadly. Better DR, high ISO, etc.
[*]Higher fps
[*]Larger buffer
[*]More resolution
[*]Automated AFMA onboard
[*]1DX II AF system (as close as the 1DX to 5D3 was -- same number/type/spread of points, perhaps not the same lickety split performance)
[*]1DX II metering, including spot metering at the selected AF point
[*]4K
[*]Onboard radio master, no external transmitter required
[*]Base ISO < 100 (ISO 50, ISO 64, etc.)
[*]Tilty-flippy screen
[/list]

Given that entire list, spot metering at any AF point might be 3rd most important to me behind general IQ and the AF system. Not kidding.

- A

no tilty-flippy please...

 

[ahsanford]

the metering might be much worse again with maybe no spot linked to AF point again? (just a guess, although other brands offer it at lower prices)

Famously, I have a bone to pick about this -- I've said numerous times that a budget Nikon D5500 has this, my iPhone has this, etc.

Of the following list of potential 5D4 improvements over my 5D3 (some certain / some possible / some hopeful / some dreaming):

[truncated]

Given that entire list, spot metering at any AF point might be 3rd most important to me behind general IQ and the AF system. Not kidding.

- A

no tilty-flippy please...

And others would say no to more resolution while others make that metric their top priority.

It's not a vision board, it's just a list of places the design might go. But I hear you.

- A

 

[PureClassA]

I would have to assume a modest upgrade in resolution like 24MP is most likely. We have a brand new 24MP crop sensor ... let's have a brand new 24MP FF one too. I'd love to see DPAF on this for the video function, but I suspect that will be held solely for the DX2 which I shot with all this weekend. Lovely toy.

I'm thinking ahsanford is mostly right in his wish list, although I really dont see Canon putting a tilty-flippy on a 5 body.

Can't wait for August!

 

[slclick]

The tilty flippy is going on the 6D2 because I need it for macro. Canon listens, you'll see.

 

[ahsanford]

I would have to assume a modest upgrade in resolution like 24MP is most likely. We have a brand new 24MP crop sensor ... let's have a brand new 24MP FF one too. I'd love to see DPAF on this for the video function, but I suspect that will be held solely for the DX2 which I shot with all this weekend. Lovely toy.

I'm thinking ahsanford is mostly right in his wish list, although I really dont see Canon putting a tilty-flippy on a 5 body.

Can't wait for August!

Wow -- no no -- that list was purely hypothetical, and all but certainly will not come to pass as written. Onboard radio master is pie in the sky wishlist stuff, and I really doubt we'll get spot metering at any AF point.

My actual 5D4 guess remains similar to what we've heard:

24 MP x 7-8 fps [grumble why only one chip grumble grumble]
1DX2 AF (...in general specs, but perhaps not in speed or pure tracking awesomeness)
4K
DPAF (surely a certainty for a video heavy rig like this)
Anti-flicker
A secret new feature that we will not be expecting but will become popular (like silent shutter, DPAF, anti-flicker, etc. were)

- A

 

[PureClassA]

Ok and NO on the radio transmitter. But the rest of what you had all sounded fairly reasonable even if they dont all come to fruition.

Tilty Flippy on 6D2 however I would think is a fairly safe bet. That seems more like a 6 body feature than a rugged 5 body feature

 

[ahsanford]

Ok and NO on the radio transmitter. But the rest of what you had all sounded fairly reasonable even if they dont all come to fruition.

Tilty Flippy on 6D2 however I would think is a fairly safe bet. That seems more like a 6 body feature than a rugged 5 body feature

Agree on the 6D2 getting it, though others might argue that rugged and tilty-flippy can coexist:

D500: https://youtu.be/fC5jQgc_-w8?t=3m33s

K-1: https://youtu.be/87yGmD71nyA?t=6m18s
(let it keep rolling -- they douse it in a running stream)

These are not green-light 'it's good to go' testimonials for shooting arctic foxes in hellish conditions, but it's probably A-OK for most of us.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

no tilty-flippy please...

+1 !!!

I've gone around and around on this, but I'm leaning towards wanting one. Principal reasons I've changed my mind towards tilty-flippy for the 5D4 market:

1) Video.

2) Crowded (wedding, concerts, events) or dangerous (protests, war correspondents, etc.) shooting environments. Get under a car or behind a wall and keep shooting, reach over the crowd with a wide shot, etc.

3) Pretty damn handy for low to ground tripod + liveview work -- landscapes, macro, etc.

4) If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. Though there is an added expense with all this that you won't use, take a number on that front -- I don't shoot video at all on my 5D3 and I sure as hell paid for it.

(#3 is the only one that really matters to me, but I see 1,2,3 fitting the 5D4 crowd pretty well)

But the only way to truly end the discussion on this is for Canon to either offer two models (one with tilty-flippy and one without) or for canon to make the LCD a rigidly-mountable/sealed module that can be changed out as needs change. Shooting in a hellish environment? Go vanilla/rigid. Need a tilty-flippy? Slap in the screen module you need. (That would also allow 3rd parties to offer specialized snap-in modules for different needs.)

And again, I'm not certain the 5D4 will get a tilty-flippy -- I'm just arguing that there's value even for that demanding professional crowd.

- A

 

[CanonGuy]

I would have to assume a modest upgrade in resolution like 24MP is most likely. We have a brand new 24MP crop sensor ... let's have a brand new 24MP FF one too. I'd love to see DPAF on this for the video function, but I suspect that will be held solely for the DX2 which I shot with all this weekend. Lovely toy.

I'm thinking ahsanford is mostly right in his wish list, although I really dont see Canon putting a tilty-flippy on a 5 body.

Can't wait for August!

Wow -- no no -- that list was purely hypothetical, and all but certainly will not come to pass as written. Onboard radio master is pie in the sky wishlist stuff, and I really doubt we'll get spot metering at any AF point.

My actual 5D4 guess remains similar to what we've heard:

24 MP x 7-8 fps [grumble why only one chip grumble grumble]
1DX2 AF (...in general specs, but perhaps not in speed or pure tracking awesomeness)
4K
DPAF (surely a certainty for a video heavy rig like this)
Anti-flicker
A secret new feature that we will not be expecting but will become popular (like silent shutter, DPAF, anti-flicker, etc. were)

- A

If those specs are true, ill be very disappointed! Only thing exciting over there is 4k and I don't do video. So, yawn... Couple big yawns.

 

[Diltiazem]

Again, always bears repeating:

http://petapixel.com/2016/02/19/here-are-the-cameras-that-won-world-press-photo-2016/
(Also, see the highest rated comment below the story. :)

Award-winning photos taken on Canon cameras = 28
Award-winning photos taken on Nikon cameras = 12 (yes -- there are some EXMOR sensors in there)
Award-winning photos taken on Sony cameras = 1 (*zero* from the A7 brand)

In fairness, these folks would probably have won their awards with any camera, but the fact that they chose to stick with Canon through these terribly lean DR times speaks volumes. These folks (correctly) see the bigger value proposition of what camera to use. They consider everything -- sensors, AF, lenses, flashes, build quality, 3rd party offerings, reliability, ergonomonics, handling, service, resale, etc.

I'm not saying I don't want more DR, and I'm not saying your desire to have more is misplaced. I am saying that in the big picture, Canon continues to delight us in ways other than the sensor far far far more than my sensor is letting me down, and until that changes, I'm happily staying put.

- A

P.S. I'd honestly love more breakdowns of who uses what from other sectors than press photography, but I've had tough luck getting last 12-24 month sort of data. Please msg me offline and forward a link if you don't mind.

Yah canon had/has higher market share and thats the reason they got lazy. If a Sony can make those amazing sensors with having less than 5% market share of dslr, Canon also should be able to do so. I see pain and simple lack of drive to innovate there.

Lots of people often say, Sony is very innovative. But it is really hard to find Sony 'innovations'. Let's look at some of the ideas that made headline in recent years or months.

Mirrorless. Not a Sony innovation.
On chip ADC. Not a Sony innovation.
BSI sensor. Not a Sony innovation.
Pixel shift. Not a Sony innovation.
Sensor shift IS. Not a Sony innovation.
Dual Pixel AF. Not a Sony innovation.

Did I miss anything?

 

[ahsanford]

If those specs are true, ill be very disappointed! Only thing exciting over there is 4k and I don't do video. So, yawn... Couple big yawns.

But we don't know the secret feature yet. What if it turns out to be illluminated/backlit buttons, or a modular LCD mount like I discussed, or an on-the-fly selectable EVF/OVF, or a new pony?

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Mirrorless. Not a Sony innovation.
On chip ADC. Not a Sony innovation.
BSI sensor. Not a Sony innovation.
Pixel shift. Not a Sony innovation.
Sensor shift IS. Not a Sony innovation.
Dual Pixel AF. Not a Sony innovation.

Did I miss anything?

Let's rephrase it, then. They are resourceful at aggregating innovations from the imaging industry into (fairly) compelling products.

Call them 'resourceful and disruptive' or something.

- A

 

[CanonGuy]

Mirrorless. Not a Sony innovation.
On chip ADC. Not a Sony innovation.
BSI sensor. Not a Sony innovation.
Pixel shift. Not a Sony innovation.
Sensor shift IS. Not a Sony innovation.
Dual Pixel AF. Not a Sony innovation.

Did I miss anything?

Let's rephrase it, then. They are resourceful at aggregating innovations from the imaging industry into (fairly) compelling producta.

Call them 'resourceful and disruptive' or something.

- A

It doesn't matter if you innovate something and keep the patent in the closet lol. It matters when users can actually use those technology. I'm fine with a company that is 'aggregating resource'. They are bringing the technology to the masses while canon is a slow moving dinosaur. I hope they be able to give canon a good run for their money.

 

[ahsanford]

It doesn't matter if you innovate something and keep the patent in the closet lol. It matters when users can actually use those technology. I'm fine with a company that is 'aggregating resource'. They are bringing the technology to the masses while canon is a slow moving dinosaur. I hope they be able to give canon a good run for their money.

There's another company that's been killing it with a lot of that tech -- that being Pentax -- but they lack the sexy sensors and that terminates the 'internet forum love flowchart' at Step 1.

But have a hard look at the K-1. That's a mirrorslapper's A7R with more tech onboard than the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle.

For some reason -- and it very well might be flange distance allowing adaptor and existing lenses -- folks fawn over the A7 platform while the K-1 is a bridge too far, it's too painful of a migration, etc. Yet functionality and handling-wise, the K-1 is probably a more natural fit for Nikon and Canon folks.

Yet Sony is the disruptive innovator that will take over the world, while Pentax is the tool for the weird kids on the science team. Go figure.

- A

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Speaking of specific DR and noise rumors of the upcoming 5D IV... I was wondering whether how evaluate those at this point assuming there is no way to even open RAW files, yet. You certainly can not draw conclusions based on JPEGs, that have much to do with the software of 5D IV, which has also not been finalized yet obviously.

So do you think that any of those DR, noise related rumours should be considered reliable assuming that no one has ever seen a single RAW file of 5D IV as of yet? I guess we won't really have a clear perspective of DR, noise specs, etc until first RAWs become available. Any thoughts on that?

1. Testers might, some of them, have been given a special DPP version.
2. All a tester would need to do is plop the RAW into say IRIS and then measure the black frame noise. That's actually the best way to test for DR. It doesn't rely on whatever sneaky thing some converter might do under the hood and just takes a look at the true RAW output, it's easily repeatable and it takes like only 30 seconds do the whole thing test.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Ok and NO on the radio transmitter. But the rest of what you had all sounded fairly reasonable even if they dont all come to fruition.

Tilty Flippy on 6D2 however I would think is a fairly safe bet. That seems more like a 6 body feature than a rugged 5 body feature

I'd love a flippy, great for macro, video, even certain types of sports/PJ work, etc.
And when you need rugged, just keep it locked back down, no problem at all.
And has anyone ever heard of an epidemic of flippies getting snapped off?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

no tilty-flippy please...

+1 !!!

I've gone around and around on this, but I'm leaning towards wanting one. Principal reasons I've changed my mind towards tilty-flippy for the 5D4 market:

1) Video.

2) Crowded (wedding, concerts, events) or dangerous (protests, war correspondents, etc.) shooting environments. Get under a car or behind a wall and keep shooting, reach over the crowd with a wide shot, etc.

3) Pretty damn handy for low to ground tripod + liveview work -- landscapes, macro, etc.

4) If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. Though there is an added expense with all this that you won't use, take a number on that front -- I don't shoot video at all on my 5D3 and I sure as hell paid for it.

(#3 is the only one that really matters to me, but I see 1,2,3 fitting the 5D4 crowd pretty well)

But the only way to truly end the discussion on this is for Canon to either offer two models (one with tilty-flippy and one without) or for canon to make the LCD a rigidly-mountable/sealed module that can be changed out as needs change. Shooting in a hellish environment? Go vanilla/rigid. Need a tilty-flippy? Slap in the screen module you need. (That would also allow 3rd parties to offer specialized snap-in modules for different needs.)

And again, I'm not certain the 5D4 will get a tilty-flippy -- I'm just arguing that there's value even for that demanding professional crowd.

- A

+1

 

[kevl]

Predicting

24-28mp
AF system similar to 1DxII
5FPS
4K 60fps
DPAF
1CF+1CFast
AF Mode switch like on the 7DII
Improved dynamic range
1/2 stop better high ISO noise performance.
Illuminated AF points the same as 7DII
LP-E6N battery

This would be a must have body IMO. I can't imagine the 5D getting 7 or 8 FPS it just doesn't make sense for the camera.

 

[LoneRider]

I would have to assume a modest upgrade in resolution like 24MP is most likely. We have a brand new 24MP crop sensor ... let's have a brand new 24MP FF one too. I'd love to see DPAF on this for the video function, but I suspect that will be held solely for the DX2 which I shot with all this weekend. Lovely toy.

I'm thinking ahsanford is mostly right in his wish list, although I really dont see Canon putting a tilty-flippy on a 5 body.

Can't wait for August!

As far as the cap of 7-8 FPS based on perceived limitations of the 1DX-ii might be misleading.

First of all, we do not know if 14/15 FPS of the 1DX-ii actually is limited by the dual DIGIC 6+, further it is very possible the 5D-iv has a DIGIC 7. I am hoping the DIGIC 7 has a newer/upodated SCALING and pipe-lining that would permit full sensor width 4K/60FPS and up to 10FPS in live view, and with 8FPS shutter.

Other than that, I like all of the wish lists except for resolution. Despite doing a lot of landscapes, I don't really want to see resolution topping 26-28MP.

Wow -- no no -- that list was purely hypothetical, and all but certainly will not come to pass as written. Onboard radio master is pie in the sky wishlist stuff, and I really doubt we'll get spot metering at any AF point.

My actual 5D4 guess remains similar to what we've heard:

24 MP x 7-8 fps [grumble why only one chip grumble grumble]
1DX2 AF (...in general specs, but perhaps not in speed or pure tracking awesomeness)
4K
DPAF (surely a certainty for a video heavy rig like this)
Anti-flicker
A secret new feature that we will not be expecting but will become popular (like silent shutter, DPAF, anti-flicker, etc. were)

- A