Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Being Tested by Photographers

[Orangutan]

Sensor stabilization would be great. I have a 50mm Art and a 24-70L II that I would love to use for hand-held video.

I guess that's a fair point. I don't know anything about video, so I'm not sure how much stabilization will help for video at those focal lengths. You might be better off with a steady-cam mount of some kind.

 

[brad-man]

I'll be curious to see whether the weather sealing bar has been raised by the 7D2. Since both bodies are (will be) so similar, it stands to reason that the 5D4 should get the full gasket treatment as well. As I live in S Fl, this is rather important to me. I haven't yet been caught in a deluge with my 6D, but the odds are good that it will happen sometime.

 

[Ozarker]

...Canon always castrates their cameras to protect "High-end" products.

No they don't. That is a complete myth.

Lots of lower end models get better and more useful features than the flagship or the 5 series or the example between 7D, 70D, 7DII. There's a lot more tech trickling up than trickling down. The 1D series is not the big profit center people think it is.

I get really tired of these claims of "crippling" or in this case "castration" (ouch! -- although if cameras could breed it would be quite something.)

Just what is it that people fail to understand about product differentiation? Of course, one model is not going to have all the features of the more expensive model. To expect that is just silliness. Oh wait...I forgot...these features are free and don't cost anything to add, so Canon is just being greedy by not including every feature on every body.

They think that the higher the camera price the higher the profits made compared to other model lines ... so Canon has to protect those higher end models by "crippling" the lower end cameras.

And yup, they think there should be no product differentiation. They hate that they actually have to choose what they want to buy. Then they want the product for next to nothing. Sort of reminds me of this old Wendy's commercial from the cold war era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reRKwriprYw

I have no idea why I remember that commercial.

They have no idea or understanding of volume sales. They also erroneously believe that new tech is always trickling down the line.

Whatever is Canon's biggest profit center, it sure ain't the 1dX mark II or the 5D line.

 

[ahsanford]

Sensor stabilization would be great. I have a 50mm Art and a 24-70L II that I would love to use for hand-held video.

I guess that's a fair point. I don't know anything about video, so I'm not sure how much stabilization will help for video at those focal lengths. You might be better off with a steady-cam mount of some kind.

I am a stills-only guy, but every video review I see from CameraStoreTV or DigitalRev has a brief video review included. I've never seen IBIS shine as well as lens IS does with video.

That's no knock on IBIS -- it absolutely helps and it works on every lens (including ancient ones). I just don't think it gets the job done like lens IS does.

- A

 

[rrcphoto]

I agree with you for hardware features, but for software features, not so much. Does not having AEB on every model save Canon that much money?

canon has AEB on every single DSLR camera model.

Nikon doesn't.

Fail?

I do love it when canon is always the one that gets accused of this .. and Nikon gets a free ride.


Mirror Lockup is another that nikon doesn't put in .. supposedly because of the mirror motor drives the shutter or something.

 

[mmeerdam]

How about the 32MP rumours? IMHO 32 -36MP is the butterzone right now in versatility, speed and IQ. I can shoot a little wide (for different media usage) and still keep resolution up. I'm currently at 42MP with the sony and it's wonderful iq wise but honestly not that much beter than a D810. Almost all of Nikons glass just isn't up to scratch compared to Canon's.
I would die for a canon 32-36MP with the awesome 24-70L2, 70-200L2, 35L2,and probably upcoming new 50L2 and 85L2. It would make the perfect allround and specialist camera and would be a very very future proof total investment to probably 100MP.
Nikon can up their MP with a d820/d900 but their lenses will be their bottleneck, most don't resolve above 25MP, even their newest 24-70. Canon would be in a killer position for coming years with a 32-36 5DV with mid res mode at 24mp.
Canon 5DIV would be D810 with comparable DR but better AF, better glass, better video, better usablility and be a better futureproof investment because of the better mount compatibility with film and upcoming canon mirrorless offerings.

 

[Don Haines]

Sensor stabilization would be great. I have a 50mm Art and a 24-70L II that I would love to use for hand-held video.

I guess that's a fair point. I don't know anything about video, so I'm not sure how much stabilization will help for video at those focal lengths. You might be better off with a steady-cam mount of some kind.

I am a stills-only guy, but every video review I see from CameraStoreTV or DigitalRev has a brief video review included. I've never seen IBIS shine as well as lens IS does with video.

That's no knock on IBIS -- it absolutely helps and it works on every lens (including ancient ones). I just don't think it gets the job done like lens IS does.

- A

Having shot systems with IBIS and other systems with IS, my impression is that IBIS seems to work better on wider focal lengths, while IS seems to work better on longer focal lengths.... This is not a scientific test, just a general feeling.....

 

[koenkooi]

I agree with you for hardware features, but for software features, not so much. Does not having AEB on every model save Canon that much money?

canon has AEB on every single DSLR camera model.

But not on every EOS model, the EOS M10 lacks AEB. The original M does have it.

 

[rrcphoto]

I agree with you for hardware features, but for software features, not so much. Does not having AEB on every model save Canon that much money?

canon has AEB on every single DSLR camera model.

But not on every EOS model, the EOS M10 lacks AEB. The original M does have it.

*rolls eyes*

it's an extremely dumbed down camera.

some times features are removed not because of "cost" but because of end user complexity.

but is there a cost? sure. there's manuals to write, translations,etc.

however with anything. the less options, the change of screwing something up, the less chance of getting something wrong, the less bewildering the menus.

and again, Nikon culled AEB out of their lower end over 10 years ago.

 

[Loswr]

however with anything. the less options, the change of screwing something up, the less chance of getting something wrong, the less bewildering the menus.

A friend of mine had a Rebel that he used only in green square, then decided to by a used 5DII. After using it for a couple months, he brought me the camera and asked why from day 1 he always had to press the shutter button twice to take a picture. I explained mirror lockup and showed him how to turn it off.

Sometimes dumbed down is a good thing.

 

[AlanF]

Sensor stabilization would be great. I have a 50mm Art and a 24-70L II that I would love to use for hand-held video.

I guess that's a fair point. I don't know anything about video, so I'm not sure how much stabilization will help for video at those focal lengths. You might be better off with a steady-cam mount of some kind.

I am a stills-only guy, but every video review I see from CameraStoreTV or DigitalRev has a brief video review included. I've never seen IBIS shine as well as lens IS does with video.

That's no knock on IBIS -- it absolutely helps and it works on every lens (including ancient ones). I just don't think it gets the job done like lens IS does.

- A

Having shot systems with IBIS and other systems with IS, my impression is that IBIS seems to work better on wider focal lengths, while IS seems to work better on longer focal lengths.... This is not a scientific test, just a general feeling.....

Don, that has indeed been the consensus of many reviews so you are right.

 

[Mikehit]

Don, that has indeed been the consensus of many reviews so you are right.

It is also a reason stated by Canon that they went down the IS route instead of IBIS.
Admittedly the 5-axis IBIS of the Olympus EM range changed the ground rules but it is still broadly right.

 

[mmeerdam]

We accuse canon of being mostly marketing driven. That should give us an idea what needs to be done to sell.

Canon is always offering just enough of an upgrade to sway as many potential buyers as possible.
Therefore what would a new 5d4 need for broad appeal?
And also justify a (small) price increase because of a market decline?
The search for the ultimate compromise if you will.

IMHO:
for 5d3 owners: better af, better dr, for some - a little more Mp to crop
5dsr owners: better speed, better af, better dr in exchange for a small drop in megapixels
all: 4k video, wifi etc, touch screen, better liveview
nikon owners: at least same (ish) dr and resolution, but with better video and liveview options
sony owners: at least same(ish) dr and resolution, comaparable 4k video, hybrid evf/ovf

I would reason a new tech 32-ish mp sensor with 24 mp mode (for daily use), 1dx2 af and 4k video would make it a very tempting upgrade for anyone. 5dsr is still viable option for ultra res seekers. Nikon/Sony users lose a bit of res but get better video and better glass.
I think Canon is not going to risk losing the megapixel argument in the next couple of years against nikon and sony by sticking at 24.
I just hope they don't argue 28 is enough of an upgrade although it is a 30% increase.
Hybrid evf/ovf would be definitive selling point but i doubt they'll introduce it already.

Result:
Canon will price it around 3500,- (5ds(r) price range),
Have hordes of 5d3 owners upgrade.
Offer enough res for 5dsr owners to want them to 'downgrade' a bit.
Introduce a 5ds mark ii, with a price increase, in about 1 year and have them upgrade again.

would love to hear your opinions.

 

[kaihp]

We accuse canon of being mostly marketing driven. That should give us an idea what needs to be done to sell.

[...]
I would reason a new tech 32-ish mp sensor with 24 mp mode (for daily use)

[...]
would love to hear your opinions.

My opinion: very unlikely. As discussed sevral times, a single DIGIC 6+ can do 170-175MP/s. At 32MP, you'd have ~5.5fps and I doubt that Canon want to go down in fps. I see two possibilities:
28MP @ 6fps
24MP @ 7fps

I'm in the fps camp, so I'm cheering for 24MP@7fps.

 

[LoneRider]

My opinion: very unlikely. As discussed sevral times, a single DIGIC 6+ can do 170-175MP/s. At 32MP, you'd have ~5.5fps and I doubt that Canon want to go down in fps. I see two possibilities:
28MP @ 6fps
24MP @ 7fps

I'm in the fps camp, so I'm cheering for 24MP@7fps.

But that is assuming 2 things. One, the frame rate of the 1DX-ii is limited by the DIGIC 6+ alone, AND, the 5D-iv is not going to have a DIGIC 7.

There will have to be incremental increases over the 5D-iii, and I'm in the 28MP @7FPS camp with DPAF.

I've written this more than once, but for the middle weight, Sony and Nikon competition, the 6D-ii can come in without DPAF at 36MP @4FPS at $2500. Keep the 5D-iv as the jack of all, king of the wedding/event, with a fast'ish 7 (maybe 8) FPS, and a killer quiet 3-4FPS mode.

We will see, and I'm likely talking out my arse. But the 5D-iv has to be, must be, the king of weddings and events, and have enough differentiation to get Tom, Dick, and Harry's like me to willingly plop down $3500. And there will be Canon users who want ~36MP at a reasonable price, and that is where a 6D-ii can slot in. With the 5DS-ii getting a much better AF, and >50MP.

 

[mmeerdam]

About the frame rate bump:
High frame rates are for the 1 series. Upping 1 frame a sec is a nice spec bump. People who rely on frame rates are fast action shooters or wildlife shooters, most of them are better served with a 1d or a aps-c body. The 5d range has never been about fps.

28 MP
A 10+ MP bump wil without doubt sell better than a 1fps bump. There's also a brandimage point: canon is losing probably 8 out of 10 - non action or wildlife - high profile shooters who were shooting canon originally to the d800/d810 series. I can't image Canon is comfortable with this from a brand perspective even though for now it probably doesn't affect sales to much.

Now sony has also joined the game for landscape and portrait, commercial as a tempting high tech/mp option. The 6d2 has to compete with the d750 and the 5d range with the d810. Hence canon can't risk to let the gap in MP get too large when a d810 successor is announced (42MP?).

 

[d]

...canon is losing probably 8 out of 10 - non action or wildlife - high profile shooters who were shooting canon originally to the d800/d810 series.

Your guesstimation is wildly, laughably high.

 

[mmeerdam]

...canon is losing probably 8 out of 10 - non action or wildlife - high profile shooters who were shooting canon originally to the d800/d810 series.

Your guesstimation is wildly, laughably high.

I'm quite afraid it's not. Mind you i'm not trolling. I actually like Canon more than i do Nikon.
Note the 'high profile'. The most 'famous'. Those who influence other buyers. Those who can easily afford. Not that this 1% matters in sales much now. It matters in the long run for brand perception.

All photographers of name i've worked with or know have switched. All! And i'm talking a lot top 20 fashion / editorial / lifestyle / commercial shooters here in the Netherlands. I've seen some files pass by in this scene which are still canon though, but it's not much. Less than 8 out of 10 actually.

Example: Testino switched, as well as a lot of the other world renowned. Can't be a good message.

 

[scyrene]

...canon is losing probably 8 out of 10 - non action or wildlife - high profile shooters who were shooting canon originally to the d800/d810 series.

Your guesstimation is wildly, laughably high.

I'm quite afraid it's not. Mind you i'm not trolling. I actually like Canon more than i do Nikon.
Note the 'high profile'. The most 'famous'. Those who influence other buyers. Those who can easily afford. Not that this 1% matters in sales much now. It matters in the long run for brand perception.

All photographers of name i've worked with or know have switched. All! And i'm talking a lot top 20 fashion / editorial / lifestyle / commercial shooters here in the Netherlands. I've seen some files pass by in this scene which are still canon though, but it's not much. Less than 8 out of 10 actually.

Example: Testino switched, as well as a lot of the other world renowned. Can't be a good message.

Once again, you do realise anecdote does not constitute good data? Sales figures are never as complete as we'd like, but they paint a different picture (as many here will tell you in more detail).

 

[Loswr]

All photographers of name i've worked with or know have switched. All! And i'm talking a lot top 20 fashion / editorial / lifestyle / commercial shooters here in the Netherlands.

Do you believe the Netherlands accurately represents the entire world? Also, by '8 out of 10' did you mean 80%, or literally 8 out of the 10 total high-profile non-wildlife/action shooters in your country?