Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR1]

[Canon Rumors]

There isn’t a lot coming out of the rumor mill currently. This generally means there is nothing significant coming in the near future, which isn’t a surprise, as summer is generally a slow time of year for product launches.</p>
<p>The most highly anticipated product from Canon is the EOS 5D Mark IV and we’re only getting small bits of information, below is list of the latest information we’ve heard about the camera, not much is new outside of the ship date.</p>
<ul>
<li>The EOS 5D Mark IV will come after the EOS-1D X Mark II announcement.</li>
<li>Q1 of 2016 is the ship time Canon is aiming for.</li>
<li>EOS 5D Mark IV will have 4K.</li>
<li>New Speedlite metering system coming with the EOS-1D X Mark II & EOS 5D Mark IV.</li>
<li>Sensors ranging from 18mp to 28mp are in testing for full frame cameras.</li>
<li>EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R a test for “two model viability”, a model split of the EOS 5D Mark IV still possible. (Though, we think unlikely)</li>
<li>New DIGIC processor</li>
</ul>
<p>The EOS C300 Mark II starts shipping in September, so I doubt we’ll see a 4k DSLR launching at the same time.</p>
<p>There is also the Canon EXPO in September, which might give us some clues about the future of the DSLR.</p>
<p>There has been some suggestions of an NAB launch in April for the EOS 5D Mark IV, but I don’t see that happened as I suspect a new Cinema EOS camera will come for that show. While it will have a lot of video oriented features, it’s still considered stills camera.</p>
<p>Is an EOS 5D C possible?</p>
<p>Anything’s possible, but we still put it as unlikely.</p>

 

[dolina]

Thank you Sony for getting 4K onto the 5D Mark IV!

Will the Mark IV use CFast (600MB/s max read/write) & SDXC UHS-II (312MB/s max read/write) memory cards?

Or will they stick to CF (167MB/s max read/write) & SDXC UHS-I (104MB/s max read/write) memory cards?

Will it omit the optical low pass filter?

I hope the selling price is below $4,000. Like say $3,000.

 

[Light_Pilgrim]

There is not much that Canon can offer for landscape photographers these days. Sad, because there is a great lens (11-24) that could greatly benefit from a better sensor. As a landscape photographer, I am not holding my breath, I do not think Canon has anything to respond to Sony sensors and are likely years behind when it comes to DR. All I can say.

 

[HaroldC3]

It doesn't matter what Canon announces, it's already lost to the A7rii. Next up a7000...

 

[AlexB]

I hope they don't make the 5D mark IV their next 4K DSLR. It's a stills camera, its primary use is stills, and that's the market Canon aims at. As a stills shooter I would not want to pay an extra premium for the new 5D IV's amazing video features. And if it's not at a price premium, I suspect it probably won't be as good as everybody want it to be.

Instead, I'd much rather see them releasing a new and improved C-model, either 5Dc or 1Dc II, and have them do it properly. Implement actual video features. CFast card slot for high bit rate recording, exposure tools like waveform, live histogram, proper focusing aids, etc. Though it would be sad if they went sky high on the price again though like the 1Dc. A happy medium maybe?

Anyway, that's just my thoughts and dreams. Maybe they'll do both.

 

[dolina]

Dude, it's CFast not C-fast. :

Having CFast or SDXC UHS-II memory slots would allow for higher fps continuous shooting at higher MP, highter dynamic range and higher bit rates. All these wonderful things need a faster DiGiC processor that can write to faster memory cards.

And starting with the 5D Mark II the 5D line has become popular to both still and video people. Canon must include 4K resolution video recording because other brands like Sony have them already for less than $3,200 on a full frame mirrorless body.

I expect Canon to make announcement by August 2015 when Sony starts shipping their a7R II.

Limited availability by December and volume availability by 2016.

I hope they don't make the 5D mark IV their next 4K DSLR. It's a stills camera, its primary use is stills, and that's the market Canon aims at. As a stills shooter I would not want to pay an extra premium for the new 5D IV's amazing video features. And if it's not at a price premium, I suspect it probably won't be as good as everybody want it to be.

Instead, I'd much rather see them releasing a new and improved C-model, either 5Dc or 1Dc II, and have them do it properly. Implement actual video features. C-fast card slot for high bit rate recording, exposure tools like waveform, live histogram, proper focusing aids, etc. Though it would be sad if they went sky high on the price again though like the 1Dc. A happy medium maybe?

Anyway, that's just my thoughts and dreams. Maybe they'll do both.

 

[leGreve]

Even if Canon makes the 5D4 on par with the A7r II, it will probably end up being weaker than the next A7s II....

Canon fucked up, and they will fudge up even more if they make it a split path camera.

 

[K]

I find it interesting how the initial rumors seemed so sure of 2 models, whereas now it is a question dependent on the 5DS.

I have no data to back this up, it's just a hunch - but I would say that the 5DSR is going to outsell the 5DS by a wide margin. Many photographers, including pros want the sharpest possible image.

Professionals and serious enthusiasts who truly know what they are doing are now in the minority of consumers for these cameras. These are the last hold outs and supporters of the AA filter. Canon always wants to deliver the best IQ it can, and that is why they put the AA filter on their sensors. They, like truly knowledgeable people, knows that a slight increase in sharpness is not worth the trade off in increased moire or artifacts in an image.

The problem is, this requires a trained eye. You have to point it out to people. Worse, in the modern DSLR age where anyone with $2K is now a "pro photographer"...creators of images and content are equally as ignorant or non-caring of these types of image quality flaws as their customer base.

Thus, aliasing has become a non-factor - even though it is there and it does harm image quality. It has now been relegated to the realm of being just another standard or topic for photo critics who are analyzing all aspects of technique.


Nikon has been through this experiment, and has dumped the AA filter. There's no reason why this won't be the same in the Canon world. Canon even penalizes those who don't want the AA filter by making that camera more expensive - yet I believe it will outsell the less expensive 5DS.


All that said, the 5DSR will win out. So it stands to reason that if Canon wants to see if 2 models of the same camera is viable, they will find out it is not and if they are using that to decide on the 5D4, then the 5D4 is going to be ONE MODEL only.



5D4 is shaping up to have:


28MP
4K

AA filter or not? I would say it will have the AA filter despite the 5DSR showing to be more popular than the 5DS. The reason is, if this thing is going to have 4K and be also setup as a good video camera - they will want the most moire free video. Unless they feel that 28MP and 4K is enough resolution to overcome most moire, it will have an AA filter.



Two models of camera seems silly. I have no doubt they did experiment with an 18MP version, which would have been the 1DX sensor moved down into the 5D line.


As far as we know, this will be 28MP of the same sensor tech in the 5DS and 7D2, maybe a little improved in some ways. We can hope.


Canon really needs to deliver in the ISO realm. No matter what kind of AF they put in this thing, the 5D3's AF is decent enough that there's NOTHING they have that would be huge leap in AF. So, AF won't be the selling point.

28MP is great and all, that's a good jump. But with 36MP Nikon, 42MP Sony, and the 50MP 5DS...MP isn't the selling point.


All the other features, new metering system, new viewfinder, better menus, anti-filcker. That's all wonderful and all - but not game changers.

FPS is a big unknown. Hard to imagine it will be more than 8 or 9.


Thus, the areas of improvement that could really sell would be:


4K for all the video nuts out there
Better ISO performance which appeals to everyone.
More DR which is helpful.

4K to me a given based on my many posts in the past explaining why this is a must have. Canon cannot skip it.


Thus, it comes down to ISO.


This thing will need to have native ISO high of 51K and be noticeably cleaner at all lower ISO's.

With all the brutal competition from high megapixel sensors out there....it will need to be an ISO beast. These high resolution sensors are making the noise "smaller" and thus people think the images are cleaner. To get that kind of "look", lower res sensors will need to do even better.

I know, it's not technically correct - but what sells isn't always technically best. Just like the AA filters. They are better for the vast majority of photographers. Canon offers this to try and do what is best for consumers to provide the best IQ. But consumers don't always know what is best for them, nor want others to decide for them.


$$$$ wins in the end. So, Canon does yield to market demand (slowly though).

 

[Orangutan]

I hope they don't make the 5D mark IV their next 4K DSLR. It's a stills camera, its primary use is stills, and that's the market Canon aims at. As a stills shooter I would not want to pay an extra premium for the new 5D IV's amazing video features.

As has been explained (and demonstrated) previously, video features almost certainly reduce the price of DSLRs rather than increase them. The TL;DR is this: a DSLR without these video features will have much lower sales volume, driving up the per-unit R&D cost, which drives up retail price. The Nikon Df should have put this misconception to rest permanently.

 

[dolina]

I hope all future EOS bodies will omit the optical low pass filter like the 36.3MP D810, 24.2MP D7200, 24.2MP D5500 and 24.2MP D3300.

Orangutan thanks for pointing out that the Nikon Df has no video.

 

[Orangutan]

Canon F_____ up, and they will fudge up even more if they make it a split path camera.

So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.

Photographers continue to make this mistake: Canon is a business, their interest is money. They are not camera design aficionados trying to win an engineering award.

 

[Orangutan]

I hope all future EOS bodies will omit the optical low pass filter like the 36.3MP D810, 24.2MP D7200, 24.2MP D5500 and 24.2MP D3300.

What about moiré? At this point, I'm not sure I'd buy a prosumer camera that didn't have an OLDP if I had a choice, the marginal sharpness is not worth it. For a studio or landscape specialist I could understand, but for a generalist (i.e. consumer) camera it's not warranted.

 

[dolina]

So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.

Photographers continue to make this mistake: Canon is a business, their interest is money. They are not camera design aficionados trying to win an engineering award.

Not to mention Canon like other companies communicate exhaustively with their major customers who actually buy regularly and mostly in bulk.

This excludes internet trolls.

 

[dolina]

What about moiré? At this point, I'm not sure I'd buy a prosumer camera that didn't have an OLDP if I had a choice, the marginal sharpness is not worth it. For a studio or landscape specialist I could understand, but for a generalist (i.e. consumer) camera it's not warranted.

It appears to be a non-problem for Nikon with their high pixel density bodies. The only Nikon bodies with it are the 24.3MP D750 and 16.2MP D4S that are both full frame.

Based on Nikon's design decisions the 5D Mark IV should have at least 36.3MP for the omission of the optical low pass filter.

 

[Orangutan]

What about moiré? At this point, I'm not sure I'd buy a prosumer camera that didn't have an OLDP if I had a choice, the marginal sharpness is not worth it. For a studio or landscape specialist I could understand, but for a generalist (i.e. consumer) camera it's not warranted.

It appears to be a non-problem for Nikon with their high pixel density bodies. The only Nikon bodies with it are the 24.3MP D750 and 16.2MP D4S that are both full frame.

Based on Nikon's design decisions the 5D Mark IV should have at least 36.3MP for the omission of the optical low pass filter.

At some point pixel density makes it a non-problem, but I'm not convinced we're there yet for consumer/prosumer bodies. I just did a quick google: there are still reports of moire in fabrics with these bodies. I guess it depends on what you shoot.

 

[dolina]

At some point pixel density makes it a non-problem, but I'm not convinced we're there yet for consumer/prosumer bodies. I just did a quick google: there are still reports of moire in fabrics with these bodies. I guess it depends on what you shoot.

Going back to the "video adds cost" I would like to thank you and Nikon for debunking this.

The price rise is largely caused by the industry-wide declining sales of dedicated still cameras.

While smartphones are getting cheaper our SLRs become more expensive as fewer bodies get sold year after year starting in 2011.

 

[preppyak]

Canon F_____ up, and they will fudge up even more if they make it a split path camera.

So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.

Photographers continue to make this mistake: Canon is a business, their interest is money. They are not camera design aficionados trying to win an engineering award.

Yep. And their success was by making the 5D3 a really great camera for event/wedding shooting and targeting a market that would sell well. They need to keep that up with the 5DIV as well, keep targeting that market and maybe expand a little. They've lost the video game, both in terms of ProRes/Raw video, and in terms of 4k. So, it's nice the 5DIV will have 4k, but, if they are building their strategy around that, its gonna end poorly.

Innovate with auto-focus, innovate with flash sync, etc. Still tons of money to be made on stills cameras that happen to shoot video for the pro and prosumer market.

But if Sony figures out its lens line, or if their third-party AF is as good as they say in the A7rII, then Canon will be in trouble long-term

 

[gdanmitchell]

Regarding: "EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R a test for “two model viability”, a model split of the EOS 5D Mark IV still possible. (Though, we think unlikely)"...

I doubt that the 5DIV itself would be split into two models. Instead, I think that we are already seeing the split of the 5D line into a "D" and a "Ds" component, with the first half (the 5Ds models) already released and newer 5D (IV) being the other half.

That would be precisely in line with the old differentiation between the 1D and 1Ds variants. With the overall pricing moving downwards and away from the old high end ($8k!) range, and with the capabilities of the 5-series bodies increasing, this seems like the likely outcome.

 

[dolina]

I hope the product cycle of the 5DS is lengthy like say... 5 years? Like the original 7D and 1DS3. ;D

I do have mixed feelings about CFast though. I will have to deal with a 3rd memory card type.

 

[Loswr]

Canon F_____ up, and they will fudge up even more if they make it a split path camera.

So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.

Photographers continue to make this mistake: Canon is a business, their interest is money. They are not camera design aficionados trying to win an engineering award.

I'd say photographers aren't making that mistake, they're buying gear that meets their needs...and the majority are buying Canon. Canon is designing cameras that people choose to buy.

It's the 'internet experts' who can't seem grasp the basic fact that Canon's goal is to sell cameras and generate profit, and thus their design decisions are aimed at appealing to their target markets, and not a vocal minority of Internet forum posters.

As I've said, YAPODFC. :