Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR1]

[Hjalmarg1]

Thank you Sony for getting 4K onto the 5D Mark IV!

Will the Mark IV use CFast (600MB/s max read/write) & SDXC UHS-II (312MB/s max read/write) memory cards?

Or will they stick to CF (167MB/s max read/write) & SDXC UHS-I (104MB/s max read/write) memory cards?

Will it omit the optical low pass filter?

I hope the selling price is below $4,000. Like say $3,000.

All of these features plus an increase in DR, IQ at low AND high ISO performance at the same time is always welcome.

 

[Maiaibing]

Per-leeze Canon, bring joy to the world....just give me one new feature on the 5D IV:

Illuminated AF points, Illuminated AF points & Illuminated AF points. And Illuminated AF points.

You have my sympathy - one (of several) reasons I did not get the 5DIII. I think it was an attempt to reduce viewfinder clutter. It was just a very bad idea, while the rotating AF point was a very good one. Next time Canon will likely get it right.

 

[emko]

The Sony A7II release is going to have a major impact on the 5DIV specs that are in the final product. Sony just changed the game and in this particular case Canon has to capitulate.

Boston College just filled their whole baseball roster with left-handed hitters. That changes the game, and in this particular case the New York Yankees will have to capitulate and fill their bullpen with left-handed pitchers.

(In case the sports analogy is lost on you, the point is a Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR.)

" Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.

A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS

Sony made one camera that Canon needs to make 2 because they don't have the tech to release a camera like the A7rII.

maybe by the time 5D5 comes out Canon will have woken up and stop ripping people of.

 

[davidmurray]

" Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.

A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS

Sony made one camera that Canon needs to make 2 because they don't have the tech to release a camera like the A7rII.

maybe by the time 5D5 comes out Canon will have woken up and stop ripping people of.

Why all the negativity?

Surely if you're looking at this site you're interested in Canon cameras and interested in what Canon actually is doing.

I like what Canon has produced in the 5D3 and am really interested in hearing about the next incarnation of this excellent gadget.

I would prefer to read fair assessments of current Canon products (fair, not in Canon's pocket) than perpetual pro-Sony anti-Canon rants.

When it comes to future, as yet unreleased products I see little point in bitching about what Canon has not done, or what you think was done wrongly. I see plenty of point in expressions of optimism for this new hoped-for feature or that new hoped-for feature; but PLEASE let's keep posts to this forum polite, reasonable, diplomatic, and, above all, rational.

Yes I don't post very often. Yes I am interested in hearing what Canon is doing. No I don't want to read a tonne of bitch-fests just to find the few actual interesting posts.

I'm interested in what people do with their Canon cameras, lenses and accessories. I'm interested in reading about what Canon is doing vis a vis new products - that is why I visit this website.

Personally I would appreciate it if there would be fewer negative anti-Canon rants.

Let's increase the ISO quality (so to speak) in the conversation about Canon products.

 

[leGreve]

Canon F_____ up, and they will ****** up even more if they make it a split path camera.

So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.

Photographers continue to make this mistake: Canon is a business, their interest is money. They are not camera design aficionados trying to win an engineering award.

I'd say photographers aren't making that mistake, they're buying gear that meets their needs...and the majority are buying Canon. Canon is designing cameras that people choose to buy.

It's the 'internet experts' who can't seem grasp the basic fact that Canon's goal is to sell cameras and generate profit, and thus their design decisions are aimed at appealing to their target markets, and not a vocal minority of Internet forum posters.

As I've said, YAPODFC. :

I work at one of the best commercial photography studios in Denmark.... we range from high-end still life to food photography being able to charge over 1300 Euro for pr days work.
And honestly, we are not impressed anymore.

I totally get that a large crowd of non-trained or selftrained photographers will fall on their asses over these cameras, because Canon has managed to somehow give the impression of value for money.

We had a 5D2, then moved up to 5D3 because there wasn't other serious solutions around at the time, but time has run out on Canon.
But adapters are getting waaay better, so you can't use the argument that you own Canon lenses so you have to buy Canon. They have made so many terrible body decissions lately both on the still side and the video side... just look at the joke that is the XC10.

I also totally get that Canon is by no means an innovative company anymore, but I wish they were. I guess that boils down to having a aging board of directors that get more and more weak spined and money grubbing.
I sometimes wonder if the same if the case with the fanbase............. I mean aging and unadjustable.
The 69ers are still the largest population group, while those who dare and try out new innovative stuff come from the newer alas smaller demographic groups.

In the mean time... look at a company like Black Magic Design. Man I wish those guys would attack the still segment, they would steal large market shares in a couple of years with their business model; innovative and aggresively priced.

 

[100]

The Sony A7II release is going to have a major impact on the 5DIV specs that are in the final product. Sony just changed the game and in this particular case Canon has to capitulate.

Boston College just filled their whole baseball roster with left-handed hitters. That changes the game, and in this particular case the New York Yankees will have to capitulate and fill their bullpen with left-handed pitchers.

(In case the sports analogy is lost on you, the point is a Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR.)

" Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.

A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS

Sony made one camera that Canon needs to make 2 because they don't have the tech to release a camera like the A7rII.

maybe by the time 5D5 comes out Canon will have woken up and stop ripping people of.

2 camera’s you haven’t even touched yet and one camera (5DIV) that is nothing more than a rumor at the moment and you already know which one is best… Doesn’t exactly do wonders for one’s credibility, I think.

The best payed professionals are in what I would call the top league or highest level. Look at the systems those people are using and tell me where Sony systems are the clear winners? The top in landscape and fashion are using medium format digital or large format film. The top in sports and nature are using DSLR’s made by Canon and Nikon. Journalism, wedding, event..? Please show me where Sony is regarded the best option by the top level pro’s.

This doesn’t make Sony camera’s bad camera’s. They outperform Canon on sensors, but that alone isn’t enough to win over a substantial amount of top level pro’s to really compete in the same league.
Maybe the A7rII will make a change and MILC will rule the world but people said the same thing 5 years ago…

Don’t get me wrong, I like what Sony is doing and I really want Canon to take bigger steps, but so far Sony hasn’t pushed hard enough to really hurt Canon/Nikon. I hope they will though, we (the consumer) will benefit from it.

 

[gary samples]

" Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.

A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS

Sony made one camera that Canon needs to make 2 because they don't have the tech to release a camera like the A7rII.

maybe by the time 5D5 comes out Canon will have woken up and stop ripping people of.

Why all the negativity?

Surely if you're looking at this site you're interested in Canon cameras and interested in what Canon actually is doing.

I like what Canon has produced in the 5D3 and am really interested in hearing about the next incarnation of this excellent gadget.

I would prefer to read fair assessments of current Canon products (fair, not in Canon's pocket) than perpetual pro-Sony anti-Canon rants.

When it comes to future, as yet unreleased products I see little point in bitching about what Canon has not done, or what you think was done wrongly. I see plenty of point in expressions of optimism for this new hoped-for feature or that new hoped-for feature; but PLEASE let's keep posts to this forum polite, reasonable, diplomatic, and, above all, rational.

Yes I don't post very often. Yes I am interested in hearing what Canon is doing. No I don't want to read a tonne of bitch-fests just to find the few actual interesting posts.

I'm interested in what people do with their Canon cameras, lenses and accessories. I'm interested in reading about what Canon is doing vis a vis new products - that is why I visit this website.

Personally I would appreciate it if there would be fewer negative anti-Canon rants.

Let's increase the ISO quality (so to speak) in the conversation about Canon products.

+10

 

[Loswr]

The Sony A7II release is going to have a major impact on the 5DIV specs that are in the final product. Sony just changed the game and in this particular case Canon has to capitulate.

Boston College just filled their whole baseball roster with left-handed hitters. That changes the game, and in this particular case the New York Yankees will have to capitulate and fill their bullpen with left-handed pitchers.

(In case the sports analogy is lost on you, the point is a Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR.)

Hmmm. . . . been a sports guy probably more than you have been alive. So you shouldn't think too highly of yourself. The world has a way of changing and it is best to take note of such.

Hmmmm. . . . Well apologies for not knowing you're an elderly sports guy. It's the anonymous Internet, you could know as much about baseball as Vince Lombardi. Heck, you could be Vince Lombardi. Wait, is that even the right sport?

As for thinking highly of myself, I'm not the one telling Canon what they have to do. That's you, bub. Lots of 'photo guys' here on CR said that Canon had to deliver more low ISO DR in the 5DIII or it would be a flop – after all, Nikon APS-C bodies were already 'better' than the 5DII. But you've probably a photo guy longer than they've been alive, so you know better than them.

 

[dolina]

The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.

Source: http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/02/canon-leads-the-way-in-world-press-photo-nominations/

These photogs go to warzones or disaster areas to get their perfect images.

So why is Canon inferior?

 

[dolina]

The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.
...

Who owns the camera: the photographer or their employer?

Both? There are freelance and non-freelance photojournalists.

From a commercial/business point of view Canon makes the most sense.

Sony has been heavily promoting the Alpha system at the last few WorldCups but the cameras used by the sports photogs were Canon followed by Nikon.

 

[Loswr]

The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.
...

Who owns the camera: the photographer or their employer?

If you owned a construction business, would you buy you plastic hammers for your crew, or would you buy tools you knew they could use to do their jobs?

Whoever is buying the cameras, they're not buying Sony...well, maybe they are but if so it would seem they're like toy plastic hammers...

 

[dolina]

If you owned a construction business, would you buy you plastic hammers for your crew, or would you buy tools you knew they could use to do their jobs?

Whoever is buying the cameras, they're not buying Sony...well, maybe they are but if so it would seem they're like toy plastic hammers...

2nd most popular system is Nikon and they are exclusive to NASA.

Again, I am happy Sony is stepping up where Nikon is not. Competition is needed in an industry that is shrinking 20% year after year.

 

[arcanej]

Canon has the dominant share in cameras today and has the best repair services (at least in the U.S.). What should be most concerning to Canon - and Canon users - is change on the margin.

On the margin, it appears that more consumers are buying Sony kit (1). The reason why is pretty obvious: Sony is now more innovative in sensor design than Canon/Nikon (and, perhaps, Samsung) and is packaging its sensors in smaller, less-intimidating-to-new-photographers bodies. Should this continue, Sony may very well gain the sales base to build out a repair network that can rival Canon (at least in the U.S.) and Canon may no longer be able to fund the class of the industry repair system.

Canon has a lot going for it: it's lenses are great and help keep a lot of users loyal in the midst of rising competition. However, if the key features that users make their buying decision is based on DR and high ISO performance and Canon continues to lag in those areas, Canon will lose. It will not matter that Canon's bodies offer better weather sealing, better battery life, better ergonomics, better software layout, higher frame rates, etc.

Competing against Sony (and, for that matter Samsung) in essentially a semiconductor fabrication technology is hard. Sony and Samsung have a lot more invested in silicon chips and can leverage this to image sensors. In fact, it should be anything but surprising that they are leveraging this resource base and skill set into image sensors.

It may well be cost prohibitive for Canon to keep up with changes in lithography tech. Nikon seems to have implicitly made this choice by adopting Sony sensors. Canon will have to make the decision to: a) build its own fabs to keep up with lithography shrinks, b) become a fabless sensor desiger, or c) follow down Nikon's path. For consumer choice, I certainly hope Canon doesn't opt for c). We are all better off with more companies competing on sensor design. However, it appears that Canon is hobbled in its current strategy because of the cost of fab upgrades / cost of a new fab.

This is not to say that Canon will necessarily disappear as a company. Leica is still around and you don't see that many rangefinders anymore. However, there is still a very well-satisfied minority who continue to buy rangefinders (myself included).

(1) http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-says-their-premium-cameras-sales-are-raising/

 

[Loswr]

However, if the key features that users make their buying decision is based on DR and high ISO performance and Canon continues to lag in those areas, Canon will lose. It will not matter that Canon's bodies offer better weather sealing, better battery life, better ergonomics, better software layout, higher frame rates, etc.

OTOH, if the key features on which users make buying decisions are ergonomics, frame rates, UI, etc., and Sony continues to lag in those areas...

I think history has shown that so far, low ISO DR has not been a major factor in buying decisions, and if you're saying that Canon is lagging in high ISO performance based on one 12 MP Sony camera, that's a highly specious argument.

 

[dolina]

It's very simple. Just buy a Sony when it actually surpasses Canon.

All our CRT TVs at home were Sonys until one day we bought HDTVs that are Samsung.

All our PCs were IBMs but but since 2000 we stayed with Apple until now.

All our ACs are Carriers but we are transitioning to LG.

For a solid decade we drove Hondas then this decade it was Subarus.

If I was buying my first dedicated still camera I would buy a Sony assuming I have no interest in wildlife or sports photography.

ISO and DR are considerations you learn about by hanging out on forums.

Canon has the dominant share in cameras today and has the best repair services (at least in the U.S.). What should be most concerning to Canon - and Canon users - is change on the margin.

On the margin, it appears that more consumers are buying Sony kit (1). The reason why is pretty obvious: Sony is now more innovative in sensor design than Canon/Nikon (and, perhaps, Samsung) and is packaging its sensors in smaller, less-intimidating-to-new-photographers bodies. Should this continue, Sony may very well gain the sales base to build out a repair network that can rival Canon (at least in the U.S.) and Canon may no longer be able to fund the class of the industry repair system.

Canon has a lot going for it: it's lenses are great and help keep a lot of users loyal in the midst of rising competition. However, if the key features that users make their buying decision is based on DR and high ISO performance and Canon continues to lag in those areas, Canon will lose. It will not matter that Canon's bodies offer better weather sealing, better battery life, better ergonomics, better software layout, higher frame rates, etc.

Competing against Sony (and, for that matter Samsung) in essentially a semiconductor fabrication technology is hard. Sony and Samsung have a lot more invested in silicon chips and can leverage this to image sensors. In fact, it should be anything but surprising that they are leveraging this resource base and skill set into image sensors.

It may well be cost prohibitive for Canon to keep up with changes in lithography tech. Nikon seems to have implicitly made this choice by adopting Sony sensors. Canon will have to make the decision to: a) build its own fabs to keep up with lithography shrinks, b) become a fabless sensor desiger, or c) follow down Nikon's path. For consumer choice, I certainly hope Canon doesn't opt for c). We are all better off with more companies competing on sensor design. However, it appears that Canon is hobbled in its current strategy because of the cost of fab upgrades / cost of a new fab.

This is not to say that Canon will necessarily disappear as a company. Leica is still around and you don't see that many rangefinders anymore. However, there is still a very well-satisfied minority who continue to buy rangefinders (myself included).

(1) http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-says-their-premium-cameras-sales-are-raising/

 

[privatebydesign]

If you owned a construction business, would you buy you plastic hammers for your crew, or would you buy tools you knew they could use to do their jobs?

Whoever is buying the cameras, they're not buying Sony...well, maybe they are but if so it would seem they're like toy plastic hammers...

2nd most popular system is Nikon and they are exclusive to NASA.

Again, I am happy Sony is stepping up where Nikon is not. Competition is needed in an industry that is shrinking 20% year after year.

Not true. The ISS has Canon C500's and 1DC's and a good selection of EF lenses. Oh, and most of the iconic moon landing images were shot with Hasselblads.

 

[dolina]

Not true. The ISS has Canon C500's and 1DC's and a good selection of EF lenses. Oh, and most of the iconic moon landing images were shot with Hasselblads.

Wow! Not a Sony in sight. ;D

 

[Loswr]

Not true. The ISS has Canon C500's and 1DC's and a good selection of EF lenses. Oh, and most of the iconic moon landing images were shot with Hasselblads.

Wow! Not a Sony in sight. ;D

Well then, Canon simply must respond to that.

 

[pedro]

However, if the key features that users make their buying decision is based on DR and high ISO performance and Canon continues to lag in those areas, Canon will lose. It will not matter that Canon's bodies offer better weather sealing, better battery life, better ergonomics, better software layout, higher frame rates, etc.

OTOH, if the key features on which users make buying decisions are ergonomics, frame rates, UI, etc., and Sony continues to lag in those areas...

I think history has shown that so far, low ISO DR has not been a major factor in buying decisions, and if you're saying that Canon is lagging in high ISO performance based on one 12 MP Sony camera, that's a highly specious argument.

I am really looking forward to what the ISO 25.6 amd 51.2k RAWs of the A7RII will look like...based on this new sensor...! 12.8 kish 51k would be "the sweet spot" for my type of photography...

 

[SwnSng]

" Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.

A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS

Sony made one camera that Canon needs to make 2 because they don't have the tech to release a camera like the A7rII.

maybe by the time 5D5 comes out Canon will have woken up and stop ripping people of.

Why all the negativity?

Surely if you're looking at this site you're interested in Canon cameras and interested in what Canon actually is doing.

I like what Canon has produced in the 5D3 and am really interested in hearing about the next incarnation of this excellent gadget.

I would prefer to read fair assessments of current Canon products (fair, not in Canon's pocket) than perpetual pro-Sony anti-Canon rants.

When it comes to future, as yet unreleased products I see little point in bitching about what Canon has not done, or what you think was done wrongly. I see plenty of point in expressions of optimism for this new hoped-for feature or that new hoped-for feature; but PLEASE let's keep posts to this forum polite, reasonable, diplomatic, and, above all, rational.

Yes I don't post very often. Yes I am interested in hearing what Canon is doing. No I don't want to read a tonne of bitch-fests just to find the few actual interesting posts.

I'm interested in what people do with their Canon cameras, lenses and accessories. I'm interested in reading about what Canon is doing vis a vis new products - that is why I visit this website.

Personally I would appreciate it if there would be fewer negative anti-Canon rants.

Let's increase the ISO quality (so to speak) in the conversation about Canon products.

Forums need a Karma rating...i'm so sick of the fanboys on either side but much more annoyed when it's a Nikon, Sony or whomever troll that keeps on spouting off myopic shallow comments of what PEOPLE should be using...etc etc.

The a7rii looks interesting and sounds like it would be a great Landscape body for those with Canon lenses

But the biggest thing i'm waiting for the 5dmkiv:

8+ FPS, latest AF tech and better noise characteristics when lifting shadows.

2nd tier: 24+ MP, improved ISO performance, controlling speedlites.

3rd tier: Intervalometer

I shoot everything and lots of Sports so the A7RII does not interest me, it would be an awesome landscape camera but I don't want to have two systems to fuss over.

If Canon hits on those things above which all the rumors have suggested I will be one happy customer. If they don't then I will most likely stick with my 5d3 for general use and perhaps pick up a 7dmkii for Sports, Macro and Wildlife.