Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR2]

[scyrene]

It must have 4K video and 15 stops of DR or the 5DIV won't sell and Canon will fail. Or at least I won't be buying one...but then, I wasn't going to anyway.

Sony has got quite better with the 2nd iteration of the 7 series. Considering the shorter lifecycle of Sonys I'd at least try to future proof even if just a little. Also, for the first timers, grabbing an expensive SLR, they might be negatively surprised that even their smartphones are somewhat more capable not talking about the ease of use. The cameras in smartphones are still getting better. I'm afraid, that ever lasting conservativeness might have serious consequences (yeah I see this far they have stayed afloat, but then again there seems to be less visibility and recognition of the brand as each year passes by).

Smartphones make phone calls, but the 5D4 won't. Seriously, anyone spending this much on a camera ought to have some inkling as to why expensive professional products might not have features found in everyday consumer items, or more fool them.

(And whether phone camera 4K is 'real' 4K in terms of quality is also worth considering).

 

[scyrene]

Is nobody else more interested in frame rates than resolution? I love the creative opportunities in high speed video. More resolution is far less exciting.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'd use video if it would autofocus, since it would be for causual use, 4K would be useless to me, I can barely edit 2K with my computer.

If a new model had 4K, that would be fine with me, but I'd not be using it. Cameras have lots of features I don't use.

 

[DCP]

5D4 should be about stills first, video second. 28-30 MP, 14-15 stops DR, 7-8 FPS, faster more accurate AF, and more AF points, overall much better image quality as it should compete with D810 and A7r2 at low ISO image quality, also have time lapse modes, and lower noise at high ISO. 5D3 does good at ISO's above 1600, now needs better. Then video, 4k if it can happen, and be 24,30,60 fps at 2.7 and 4k both, and 90 fps at 1080, tilt screen. The 5D4 should be the pro all around/landscape version of the 1DX2 and be built as such, and perform as such.

 

[clarksbrother]

I hope Canon does improve DR in any 5D MKIII replacement but I equally hope they keep the MP count below 30MP at between 26-28MP because the pixel pitch does have a sweet spot and thats not 50MP which is more specialist.

Can you explain what you mean by this? Sweet spot how?

Other factors notwithstanding, a smaller pixel pitch (or pixel site size), the poorer low light performance you experience (i.e. more noise at higher ISOs). By reducing the total MP, you end up with larger pixels which means much better low light sensitivity, i.e. Sony A7s II.

 

[scottkinfw]

I agree. A GoPro Hero 4 Black can do the trick.

I would like to see a 5DIV be more like a current 1DX in the 5D body. My 2 cents.

Can somebody throw a poll up simply asking who has shot more than 5 hours of video on any of their DSLRs?

Speaking strictly for myself: I shoot still images. What do I want from a new model? The ability to shoot better still images with a higher rate of keepers. So give me better base ISO performance, an AF system that increases my keeper rate by a few percent.

Sure, I want the menus to be intuitive, I want the ergonomics to be comfortable and practical and I really want durability of the highest order.

The guys shooting 4k more than likely already have a 4k rig. Or am I wrong?

 

[scottkinfw]

I think you nailed it. So sick of being slammed by fans of Sony/Nikon. I would use the 4K occasionally, but am a stills shooter. Would like better/faster focusing, and better iq primarily.

I see that many would NOT USE 4K in a future 5D Mark IV.But I would feel inferior people when someone says:

"My cell phone can record 4K, and your camera can not do ..." 8)

It is a kind of small dick complex.

 

[K-amps]

4k or no 4k.... why can't we get clean iso 100 RAW footage from any manufacturer... not Sony or Nikon no one has clean iso 100 RAW's... heck my almost 4 year old 5d3 has less noise than these hyped newer models.

 

[DanThePhotoMan]

Just my two cents, but if the 5DmkIV had 4k video I would be shocked. Canon had the chance to show innovation and ad 4k into the C100mkii, but they didn't. Canon is trying extremely hard to make sure they are differentiating their photo and video products. Their $16k cinema camera can only do 30p in 4k, and has absolutely horrid slow motion. If that is what they're marketing as a professional video camera for specs, don't expect anything remotely close in their stills camera. My business is 50/50 for photo and video, and though it hurt the wallet at first to buy separate cameras for photo and video, it made for a much better experience and I am much happier this way as well. You can't have it all in body, and unfortunately you should expect less from Canon than any other manufacturer in terms of innovation.

 

[scottkinfw]

Simple.

1. bragging rights like the other "big boys" like Sony.
2. so they don't have to listen to "big boys" dis the camera fro lack of 4K even though most will use it for stills anyway.

sek

4K advocates - are you looking to use the 5DMKIV primarily for video or do you just want to have a little 4K on the side? I don't understand the reasoning behind either argument.

If you want primarily 4K you'd be looking elsewhere.

And those who might just wanna dabble with 4K or might use it once in a blue moon surely you could live without as clearly it isn't that important or you'd be in the former camp.

Tell me again, why does it need to have 4K??

 

[scyrene]

I hope Canon does improve DR in any 5D MKIII replacement but I equally hope they keep the MP count below 30MP at between 26-28MP because the pixel pitch does have a sweet spot and thats not 50MP which is more specialist.

Can you explain what you mean by this? Sweet spot how?

Other factors notwithstanding, a smaller pixel pitch (or pixel site size), the poorer low light performance you experience (i.e. more noise at higher ISOs). By reducing the total MP, you end up with larger pixels which means much better low light sensitivity, i.e. Sony A7s II.

But is that actually true? A lot of folks say it's the total sensor size that matters. Per pixel noise goes up with smaller pixels (as far as I've been led to believe) but the overall image doesn't suffer when viewed at the same size (i.e. *not* 100% zoom, but e.g. printed on the same size paper). The A7s series is optimised for video; judging by DPR test scenes, its high ISO performance isn't much different from other Sony cameras when normalised to the same size (see attached).

 

[scyrene]

Simple.

1. bragging rights like the other "big boys" like Sony.
2. so they don't have to listen to "big boys" dis the camera fro lack of 4K even though most will use it for stills anyway.

You might want to hang around with different people... you know, like grownups.

 

[mkabi]

It must have 4K video and 15 stops of DR or the 5DIV won't sell and Canon will fail. Or at least I won't be buying one...but then, I wasn't going to anyway.

Yeah, cause 1080p and 12 stops of DR is da sh!t... nothing will beat it... nothing! I tell you!!!

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Of course, if you're a techno-geek that just wants to boast to your friends that you have 4K, then you wouldn't care, would you.

How about going out and actually doing shooting and coming across scenarios where more DR would help or shooting 4k would make things look better?

It seems that it is you who are the one insecure and can't stand when anyone mentions that your camera isn't the best at this or that even when you don't even care or get out enough in enough scenarios to ever need to care.... so you call everyone names and make up ridiculous nonsense based on the silly ways that you think about things, caring only about bragging rights and what other's think of the specs of your belongings.

 

[Renzokuken]

At this point in time, not having 4k just signals that the firm is behind competition
whether you'll use 4k video or not that's another issue altogether

IF the 5D3 camera replacement does not come with 4K,

it better perform better than what's in the market, no, no ultra low megapixel good ISO bullS___
it must minimally perform better AND have as much megapixels as something like the Sony A7R2

if it has lesser megapixels than A7R2 and yet performs worse (ISO+Dynamic Range) and not have 4K
then i really don't know what Canon is doing

already we are starting to see some loyalist of canon jumping ships
if the 5D4 suck, I think it will mark the start of the end of the Canon era

what complicates matter is that Canon has a cine line
so intentionally leaving 4K out might just be a marketing move entirely to avoid self cannibalization

 

[scyrene]

already we are starting to see some loyalist of canon jumping ships
if the 5D4 suck, I think it will mark the start of the end of the Canon era

Lol, cos we've NEVER heard that before!

Some people jump ship. Some jump back. And some people will say it sucks whatever they come out with. Everyone has a different idea of what it should improve on. So long as it's an improvement on a few core things, and still sells well to its target market (weddings, generalist pros, high end enthusiasts), it won't be the end of any era. Companies the size of this one aren't made or broken by one camera model in a lineup of a dozen.

 

[vscd]

Lol, cos we've NEVER heard that before!

Some people jump ship. Some jump back. And some people will say it sucks whatever they come out with. Everyone has a different idea of what it should improve on. So long as it's an improvement on a few core things, and still sells well to its target market (weddings, generalist pros, high end enthusiasts), it won't be the end of any era. Companies the size of this one aren't made or broken by one camera model in a lineup of a dozen.

Yes, and don't forget, DSLRs are dead anyway. Mirrorless is the future. Since years! Muahahahaa.

 

[DigiAngel]

I bought a 5D MK II over the Nikon D700 because mainly of the video capability. And i never shot a video on it.

Then, beeing in the Canon Eco System, i upgraded to a 5D MK III and i never shot video on it.

I dont know if i will buy the MK4, but what i now know is, i will not care if it offers 4K video or not ;D

 

[gbchriste]

Earlier this year I added a second 5d3 body so I could switch between using the 24-70 and 70-200 without having to swap lenses. So I'm not inclined to run out and snatch up a Mark IV anyway. But to the question of video, the only time I've ever shot video on any of the 5d bodies I've owned over the last 5 years was when I once hit the video start button while fumbling around in a dark setting where I couldn't see the controls and was still fairly new to to body layout and couldn't quite operate it all by feel. Caused me to miss a crucial still shot was going for, resulting in a torrent of bad words.

So I don't give a rats a$$ about video on the 5d body line and would be most happy if they dropped it in favor of better overall capabilities in the still imaging arena. While I love my 5d3's, the one thing that might make me seriously consider jumping up to a Mark IV would be bringing back illuminated focus points. I get so sick of losing and then having to hunt to require the AF point when shooting against a dark background.

 

[jeffa4444]

I hope Canon does improve DR in any 5D MKIII replacement but I equally hope they keep the MP count below 30MP at between 26-28MP because the pixel pitch does have a sweet spot and thats not 50MP which is more specialist.

Can you explain what you mean by this? Sweet spot how?

The higher the MP in a fixed area the higher the likelyhood of camera shake which trades-off resolution. Many Sony / Nikon users with 36MP cameras complain of higher instances of soft images through camera shake. Obviously any camera not handled correctly will give camera shake but there is some evidence to suggest a balance can be struck around 26-28MP on a 36x24mm sensor.
Since Ive had my 5DS Ive undertaken various shots & situations where Im trying to determine what is the "safest" shutter speed to focal length compared to my 6D when hand holding. Its not an exact science but generally as you would expect the longer the focal lenght the more critical this becomes. Its not just an issue in stills either because smaller pixels have an affect on panning speeds in video.