Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

[Tugela]

I think you're right; a lot of the noise about 4K is from people who are obsessed with ticking boxes on spec sheets, not people who actually use the feature.

ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Wtf??? People who want 4K use it. It is not a spec sheet thing. Are you guys really that ignorant or are you just being bloody minded.

 

[unfocused]

...In the words of Eisntein, "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

I think you just won this thread.

 

[Zv]

I think you're right; a lot of the noise about 4K is from people who are obsessed with ticking boxes on spec sheets, not people who actually use the feature.

ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Wtf??? People who want 4K use it. It is not a spec sheet thing. Are you guys really that ignorant or are you just being bloody minded.

Those people are called videographers and will buy the appropriate gear to shoot 4K video. I have no beef with that. My point is those videographers aren't looking to buy a 6DII for it's 4K ability so why does it matter?

I guess there are those who do both video and stills. I would like to hear from those folk. Are they looking for their 4K fix from a 6D replacement? Is their current 6D inadequate in the video department?

By all means buy a 5DIV and you could do both. Seems like Canon is aiming the 6D at a budget end. Now tell me, how many of these budget conscious shoppers are shooting cinematic 4K stuff using sophisticated software?

The 4K in the 6DII will be crap. Let's be honest. So again my point. Why put it in if its going to be crap?

What I (and others apparently) think is that it is SOLELY to tick it off on a spec sheet.

 

[rfdesigner]

I think you're right; a lot of the noise about 4K is from people who are obsessed with ticking boxes on spec sheets, not people who actually use the feature.

ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Wtf??? People who want 4K use it. It is not a spec sheet thing. Are you guys really that ignorant or are you just being bloody minded.

Those people are called videographers and will buy the appropriate gear to shoot 4K video. I have no beef with that. My point is those videographers aren't looking to buy a 6DII for it's 4K ability so why does it matter?

I guess there are those who do both video and stills. I would like to hear from those folk. Are they looking for their 4K fix from a 6D replacement? Is their current 6D inadequate in the video department?

By all means buy a 5DIV and you could do both. Seems like Canon is aiming the 6D at a budget end. Now tell me, how many of these budget conscious shoppers are shooting cinematic 4K stuff using sophisticated software?

The 4K in the 6DII will be crap. Let's be honest. So again my point. Why put it in if its going to be crap?

It will keep the 6D selling through it's production lifetime.

In 3 years or so 4k will be so standard we'll all expect it and there'll be the exact same argument all over again about 8k or 16k in the 6DMKIII

Canon's going to NEED to put 4k into the 6D to keep it relevant beyond 2017.

 

[unfocused]

Nobody likes to buy an item that is glaringly deficient in some area when compared to another comparable product by another vendor.

Really? I don't think that applies to everyone at all. I'm a bit of a camera geek so I read stuff about other brands, but even then only up to a point - I reckon a lot of users (even pros!) don't pay much attention to what's going on outside their bubble. And if I don't use or want a feature, why should I care if it's not included? Honestly.

I would say especially pros. There is a reason why flagship Canon and Nikon cameras tend to be conservative. Bells and whistles are much less likely to impress people who use a tool to earn a living than those who buy tools for their own entertainment.

But, overall, you are absolutely correct. The problem is that many on this forum are feature-obsessed. They are technology fetishists and have a very screwed-up idea that the latest gizmo loaded down with features is automatically better than a product that has fewer or older features. For the rational world, that's simply not true. Intelligent people buy products based on what their own needs and interests are and don't obsess over spec sheets, much less assume that a particular brand is "winning" based on who has the longest...er..."spec sheet."

 

[eninja]

Another vote for m6.

Only if Canon provides a price lens for M-mount. <=35mm FL.

 

[Sarpedon]

I've been lurking around this forum for a long, long time, waiting for news, learning new things and admiring people's pictures.

So I just wanted to log in for once and say that the endless, nasty threads like this are why I don't participate. Someone posts a hyperbolic complaint, someone chimes in to say that person is a moron, and on and on it goes for pages. It's really awful.

 

[privatebydesign]

How do you get a 2MP JPEG (for HD) when 4K delivers 8MP jpegs? I must admit I don't follow you here.

4k/UHD = 3,840 × 2,160 = 8,294,400 px
HD/1080 = 1,920×1,080 = 2,073,600 px

 

[Loswr]

My shopping message to Canon just was: I only bought 1 instead of 2 1DX2 and 1 instead of 3 5D4 - because of their lack of innovation, or better said: lack of including what their competitors already sell.

People like you should finally realize that those missing features are not a favor to customers so they are not confused with too many new functions. The one and only purpose is to spread features over as many new products over the longest possible time, so you spend more money. They try to squeeze as much out of it as possible, so it's fair that customers give the pressure back and demand as many realistic features as possible.

The message Canon heard was that you bought a 1DX II and a 5DIV. They neither know nor care about what you didn't buy, and by purchasing two high-end bodies, you told them, "Good job, Canon!"

People like you should finally realize that Canon doesn't give a rat's ass about what you don't buy. Feel free to demand that Canon incorporate the features you want. Then you can hold back the tide with your bare hands. Then count backwards from infinity. All of those have about equal chances of success.

DUDE; YES CANON APS-C LENSES CAN'T BE ATTACHED BECAUSE OF THIS; AND THIS IS WHY CANON SHOULD CHANGE THE MECHANICS OF NEW CAMERAS AND LENSES, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!

All other camera and lens manufacturers show it's possible to build it differently!!!

Because other manufacturers do it differently, that's better? You prefer lenses being larger than they need to be? They could solve in a second the incompatibility of current EF-S lenses with FF bodies? They should come out with a third mount comprising FF-compatible lenses that aren't really compatible except with crop modes?

Shout some more, dude...it really helps convince people of your point and makes you sound super duper smart.

 

[Ryananthony]

My shopping message to Canon just was: I only bought 1 instead of 2 1DX2 and 1 instead of 3 5D4 - because of their lack of innovation, or better said: lack of including what their competitors already sell.

People like you should finally realize that those missing features are not a favor to customers so they are not confused with too many new functions. The one and only purpose is to spread features over as many new products over the longest possible time, so you spend more money. They try to squeeze as much out of it as possible, so it's fair that customers give the pressure back and demand as many realistic features as possible.

The message Canon heard was that you bought a 1DX II and a 5DIV. They neither know nor care about what you didn't buy, and by purchasing two high-end bodies, you told them, "Good job, Canon!"

People like you should finally realize that Canon doesn't give a rat's ass about what you don't buy. Feel free to demand that Canon incorporate the features you want. Then you can hold back the tide with your bare hands. Then count backwards from infinity. All of those have about equal chances of success.

DUDE; YES CANON APS-C LENSES CAN'T BE ATTACHED BECAUSE OF THIS; AND THIS IS WHY CANON SHOULD CHANGE THE MECHANICS OF NEW CAMERAS AND LENSES, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!

All other camera and lens manufacturers show it's possible to build it differently!!!

Because other manufacturers do it differently, that's better? You prefer lenses being larger than they need to be? They could solve in a second the incompatibility of current EF-S lenses with FF bodies? They should come out with a third mount comprising FF-compatible lenses that aren't really compatible except with crop modes?

Shout some more, dude...it really helps convince people of your point and makes you sound super duper smart.

So I'm curious, is there anything canon could have added to 5div to make it a better tool for photographers or do you believe that it is the perfect camera?

 

[9VIII]

If you read this thread carefully, you will read detailed lists with facts about what's missing.

Yes, the amount of missing knowledge you've displayed in this thread is quite significant.

Big congratulations to you, because If you think that my list of 20 features - from silent shooting to articulating screen etc - is completely irrelevant to you, it means you can already today buy THE perfect camera from Canon that can't be improved at any point in the future, aside from dynamic range and resolution!

I didn't say they are all irrelevant to me, my point is that given that the lack of them has not seemed to affect Canon's market share to date, they are likely not of sufficient importance to the general camera-buying public to make a difference. Get it?

What does it help a photographer or filmmaker out in the field, when an articulating screen is missing, while Canon's marketshare is high? Will a photographer in a wedding church be more happy about a silent shutter or recordbreaking numbers for Canon? Will you be happy if 5 features are removed from your current camera, when you know Canon makes twice as much profit? Is this the Wallstreet Journal forum?

Well, then...just give Canon your list. I'm sure they'll immediately address all 20 of your critically lacking features.

The idea here is that it might help you understand why Canon doesn't feel the need to include the features for which you or any other particular individual are clamoring. Not sure why you can't seem to grasp that features to include/exclude are a business decision, and in the case of Canon cameras, it's Canon's business decision.

All you can decide is whether or not to purchase Canon's products. Given that you've decided to purchase many of them and continue to do so, the message you personally are sending to Canon is that they're meeting your needs. Yes, I know you said you'd have bought more if they had features you wanted...but Canon doesn't give a crap, they have no way of confirming that (other than your word, which isn't even worth the electrons you're using to transmit it). You buy their stuff – along with their millions of other customers – and you confirm their business decisions.

My shopping message to Canon just was: I only bought 1 instead of 2 1DX2 and 1 instead of 3 5D4 - because of their lack of innovation, or better said: lack of including what their competitors already sell.

People like you should finally realize that those missing features are not a favor to customers so they are not confused with too many new functions. The one and only purpose is to spread features over as many new products over the longest possible time, so you spend more money. They try to squeeze as much out of it as possible, so it's fair that customers give the pressure back and demand as many realistic features as possible.

You do realize that Canon has a 4 year development cycle for products like the 1D series, right?

Even if you were to give them your whole list, and they implemented it as fast as possible, you'd get a new 1D or 5D with those features in 2020.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they do have a lot of that stuff on the next round of bodies.
Congratulations! You're probably going to get what you want... in four years.
Chances are they've already written out the list of things to implement in the 1DX3, because Canon only releases the highest quality products, and quality takes time.

 

[d]

Actually, you will pay more for your camera without those features because those who want them will go to other brands. Canon will increase the price you have to pay to compensate for the loss of those other customers.

It is an economy of scale thing. Even if you don't need it, the presence of it will make your camera cheaper because it will address a wider market than your specific application.

No, I don't think so. I'm pretty certain from my experiences in purchasing photographic equipment that higher end models with more numerous, often higher-end features, cost more than those lesser models that have fewer features.

 

[unfocused]

...
I would say especially pros. There is a reason why flagship Canon and Nikon cameras tend to be conservative. Bells and whistles are much less likely to impress people who use a tool to earn a living than those who buy tools for their own entertainment.
...

In which way(s) are either the 1DXII or D5 conservative?

Seriously? ? ? ? For the Canon: Lowest MP count of any Canon Full Frame, limited touchscreen, no tilt screen, bolt-on wireless, no 5D IV dual-pixel focus correction, no pop-up flash, No 7D focus point selection lever, compact flash card slot...to name a few.

 

[Jopa]

...
I would say especially pros. There is a reason why flagship Canon and Nikon cameras tend to be conservative. Bells and whistles are much less likely to impress people who use a tool to earn a living than those who buy tools for their own entertainment.
...

In which way(s) are either the 1DXII or D5 conservative?

Seriously? ? ? ? For the Canon: Lowest MP count of any Canon Full Frame, limited touchscreen, no tilt screen, bolt-on wireless, no 5D IV dual-pixel focus correction, no pop-up flash, No 7D focus point selection lever, compact flash card slot...to name a few.

A popup flash on a high-end body? Really?

 

[unfocused]

...
I would say especially pros. There is a reason why flagship Canon and Nikon cameras tend to be conservative. Bells and whistles are much less likely to impress people who use a tool to earn a living than those who buy tools for their own entertainment.
...

In which way(s) are either the 1DXII or D5 conservative?

Seriously? ? ? ? For the Canon: Lowest MP count of any Canon Full Frame, limited touchscreen, no tilt screen, bolt-on wireless, no 5D IV dual-pixel focus correction, no pop-up flash, No 7D focus point selection lever, compact flash card slot...to name a few.

A popup flash on a high-end body? Really?

Well that's a ridiculously off-topic comment. The question was what about the flagship models is conservative. Not including a pop up flash is a conservative approach. Is it desirable? Not to me, but it is undeniably a conservative approach. And, by the way, do you think Canon's flagship crop body is NOT high-end?

 

[Mikehit]

I listed 20 common, convenient features No, you listed 20 omissions that were 'shameful' (a word you repeated) a strength of term that suggests these are essential rather than merely 'convenient' that Canon's competitors already sell companies with different priorities - from body stabilization to articulating screen, from focus peaking to electronic viewfinder. That's all nonsense to you? That's all ridiculous complaints? Show me where I said thsoe were 'ridiculous'. I actually said most of your comments were reasonable and then pointed out specific ones that where not (IMO as important as you find them to be or technically not possible So you basically say tens of thousands of customers who buy these other products because of these features, are idiots like me? No - if you want those features buy a camera that does them. They are not that important to me so I buy Canon cameras because Canon does those things that are important to me and does them extremely well

If these 20 features I listed are so dumb, why don't you ask Canon to remove them from their cheaper cameras or video products straw man argument verging on the absurd, wherever they already have implemented some of it themselves? Let's start and remove all articulating screens from all future Canon camera releases I would say! And let's hope they will never add sensor stabilization, who needs S___ like this anyway, right? ditto

 

[merefield]

The main thing I want to see is:

100% viewfinder!

I hate cropped viewfinders, you can waste so many pixels and have to crop which is a real pain in the workflow. I want to be able to compose accurately through the viewfinder, and would like NOT to have to revisit: the lack of a 100% viewfinder has nearly spoiled a number of my 'tight' shots and wasted a lot of time.

No 100% viewfinder? I won't be upgrading.

 

[Etienne]

...
Speaking of 4K in DSLRs ... the photo-4K in the 5D4 should be a welcome gift to photographers who want to capture the precise moment. It is essentially 30 fps of 8MP jpegs, and you can freeze the moment with very high shutter speeds as well ... why aren't photographers jumping for joy at that? Sure it's not RAW (eventually it will be), but that's got to be useful to photographers.

You are completely right and more to the point, that's what some did with film too - took reels of film on safari and then shot it all and extracted single frames from that spool with the right moment. There are two problems with this: with an OVF, you can't look through the eyepiece at the target while filming and second, the searching for the right moment with twice as many frames to search through.

The 5D4 photo-4K is much bigger than shooting reels of film to extract single frames. Those reels are shot at slow shutter speeds. The 5D4 can shoot 30 fps photo-4K at 1/4000 sec, delivering 8 MP JPEGS throughout the burst. That is a big deal. And so called dedicated photographers barely mention it so far.

Those frames are 2 MP jpeg images however, which most people who take photographs would consider inadequate.

It is a feature that is of very limited use for the sorts of people who would buy this camera.

Those frames are 8 MP jpeg ... and they are plenty useful for anyone who might use this camera for capturing a critical moment... professionally

 

[douglaurent]

If you read this thread carefully, you will read detailed lists with facts about what's missing.

Yes, the amount of missing knowledge you've displayed in this thread is quite significant.

Big congratulations to you, because If you think that my list of 20 features - from silent shooting to articulating screen etc - is completely irrelevant to you, it means you can already today buy THE perfect camera from Canon that can't be improved at any point in the future, aside from dynamic range and resolution!

I didn't say they are all irrelevant to me, my point is that given that the lack of them has not seemed to affect Canon's market share to date, they are likely not of sufficient importance to the general camera-buying public to make a difference. Get it?

What does it help a photographer or filmmaker out in the field, when an articulating screen is missing, while Canon's marketshare is high? Will a photographer in a wedding church be more happy about a silent shutter or recordbreaking numbers for Canon? Will you be happy if 5 features are removed from your current camera, when you know Canon makes twice as much profit? Is this the Wallstreet Journal forum?

Well, then...just give Canon your list. I'm sure they'll immediately address all 20 of your critically lacking features.

The idea here is that it might help you understand why Canon doesn't feel the need to include the features for which you or any other particular individual are clamoring. Not sure why you can't seem to grasp that features to include/exclude are a business decision, and in the case of Canon cameras, it's Canon's business decision.

All you can decide is whether or not to purchase Canon's products. Given that you've decided to purchase many of them and continue to do so, the message you personally are sending to Canon is that they're meeting your needs. Yes, I know you said you'd have bought more if they had features you wanted...but Canon doesn't give a crap, they have no way of confirming that (other than your word, which isn't even worth the electrons you're using to transmit it). You buy their stuff – along with their millions of other customers – and you confirm their business decisions.

My shopping message to Canon just was: I only bought 1 instead of 2 1DX2 and 1 instead of 3 5D4 - because of their lack of innovation, or better said: lack of including what their competitors already sell.

People like you should finally realize that those missing features are not a favor to customers so they are not confused with too many new functions. The one and only purpose is to spread features over as many new products over the longest possible time, so you spend more money. They try to squeeze as much out of it as possible, so it's fair that customers give the pressure back and demand as many realistic features as possible.

You do realize that Canon has a 4 year development cycle for products like the 1D series, right?

Even if you were to give them your whole list, and they implemented it as fast as possible, you'd get a new 1D or 5D with those features in 2020.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they do have a lot of that stuff on the next round of bodies.
Congratulations! You're probably going to get what you want... in four years.
Chances are they've already written out the list of things to implement in the 1DX3, because Canon only releases the highest quality products, and quality takes time.

That's the whole point, without some positive surprise and logical acting by Canon it would take until the next decade until they offer features that many already consider basics for their work.

The best thing would be if Canon NEVER does release a camera with mirror again, as it hardly makes sense anymore. They should simply start by releasing mirrorless versions of the 5D4 and 1DX2, with - most important - the same old mount and no stupid new mount! This is something Canon could release next year, and they would be everyone's darling again.

 

[scyrene]

Speaking of 4K in DSLRs ... the photo-4K in the 5D4 should be a welcome gift to photographers who want to capture the precise moment. It is essentially 30 fps of 8MP jpegs, and you can freeze the moment with very high shutter speeds as well ... why aren't photographers jumping for joy at that? Sure it's not RAW (eventually it will be), but that's got to be useful to photographers.

Yeah... For some reason, some features stay under the radar - people don't know how valuable they are until some time has passed. It would be interesting to see some real life examples of the results this produces. I'm sure it has its uses.