Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

[rrcphoto]

If nothing unusual happens, the 6D2 will be the last Canon full frame release for this decade.

On the 6D2, Canon probably will implement 1-2 of the 10-20 missing modern features the 5D4 or 1DX2 would have urgently needed, and that's it until 2020, after Hillary started her second term.

Instead of reading this forum regarding Canon full frame cameras, in the next 4 years it might be enough if someone can send one alert email in the unlikely case Canon has found an answer to the existing Sony A7R2, 2017 released A7R3 and 2019 released A7R4 (as well as the Sony A9I and A9II who could include the autofocus and processing power of the A99II).

At the speed of innovations of the last 5 years, only in 2030 it could be possible to buy a Canon flagship camera with the same specs and comfort of a camera that Sony already has released in 2020.

it's nice to talk to someone with such indepth manufacturing, R&D and industry expertise.

May I ask who you work for?



btw .. there's a very good possibility that canon put things on hold until the ADC sensor and full frame DPAF sensor was ready. you really have no clue (nor do any of us) what the internal long term schedules are for canon.

4K really isn't interesting Canon into the next decade. if you had any idea on the industry you'd know why.

 

[9VIII]

App installation is the funniest part of that whole list.
Sony just uses that to make you pay for otherwise standard features... It's strictly there to take money for what in every other camera would be included in a firmware update.
Real progressive.

 

[rrcphoto]

App installation is the funniest part of that whole list.
Sony just uses that to make you pay for otherwise standard features... It's strictly there to take money for what in every other camera would be included in a firmware update.
Real progressive.

actually I spit out my coffee at speedbooster, pixel shift.

considering if you actually knew what you are doing.. you could have been using that tech for the last 10+ years already.

 

[douglaurent]

If nothing unusual happens, the 6D2 will be the last Canon full frame release for this decade.

On the 6D2, Canon probably will implement 1-2 of the 10-20 missing modern features the 5D4 or 1DX2 would have urgently needed, and that's it until 2020, after Hillary started her second term.

Instead of reading this forum regarding Canon full frame cameras, in the next 4 years it might be enough if someone can send one alert email in the unlikely case Canon has found an answer to the existing Sony A7R2, 2017 released A7R3 and 2019 released A7R4 (as well as the Sony A9I and A9II who could include the autofocus and processing power of the A99II).

At the speed of innovations of the last 5 years, only in 2030 it could be possible to buy a Canon flagship camera with the same specs and comfort of a camera that Sony already has released in 2020.

Alas, your comments say nothing about Canon - and a lot about you. Don't you realize that? If you think the Sony offerings are that much better, and don't believe that Canon will produce a camera that is equal to them for the next 3 years, then you must be a complete fool not to switch to Sony.

!0-20 missing features? That statement alone tells us all that you are living in a dream world. Just curious if you have ever actually used these fantastic Sonys. I bought a Sony A7II to replace my Canon 6D - and returned the Sony. I guess those 10-20 missing features didn't make up for the fact that the Canon took better pics (in my opinion, of course), was much easier to use, that the Sony had a very poor EVF, and that the Sony lenses (I returned the first) were possibly the worst I have ever used in terms of being very soft away from the center.

I have sold both cameras and lenses on Ebay, and while you are going to lose money, you can still sell at a fairly good percentage of the original cost in many cases. Please, get your Sony to replace your Canon(s). If you don't, you just prove that you are a childish whiner rather than someone who is smart enough to get the product that they want.

Dear friendly guy,
because i also rent out, I own app. 50 cameras including several Sony A7R2, A7S2, RX100IV, AX100, FS7 as well as Canon 5D4, 5DsR, 1DX2, 1DC, XC10 and many more, AND I have used all of them them a lot.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I WRITE WHAT I WRITE, because I did compare and know stuff.

There are things to complain about Sony as well, but the list is A LOT shorter, and there pace of innovation is a LOT higher than Canon shows us since years. If you read this thread carefully, you will read detailed lists with facts about what's missing.

 

[douglaurent]

Do you hear anybody whining that smartphones don't have enough features? No, because they already include everything you need.

Yeah, the newest smartphone from Samsung (you know, that super innovative company that brought us the NX1) even has that great overheat-and-explode feature everyone needs, along with the innovative can't-be-used-on-an-airplane feature. Even the new post-recall units, apparently.

Yes, what would life be like without the whiners and doomsters! Is it possible these posters are actually somewhere between 5 and 8 years old? In that case I'd be a little more forgiving.

This is a list of very important features that is already mostly included in a Sony A7R2, and in many competitors cameras of a price range between 300-800USD as well - and shamefully to date there is no sign it will be implemented in a 6D2 or any other Canon fullframe camera until 2020:

Nice list of stuff that's very important to you. Aside from the lack of those features upsetting you personally (along with all 50 of your rental customers, we know), and perhaps making you stamp your foot petulantly like when the teacher didn't give you a nice, glossy handout after class, how will your list impact the thing that matters to camera makers? Namely, the return on investment from cameras they sell.

Let's talk again in 2020, when Canon remains the ILC market leader and maybe you'll finally understand the irrelevance of your incessant whining here on CR.

You are the whining person if someone would remove all those old 20+ currently missing features from your new Canon camera you will buy in the year 2025. Fanboys without criticism are the ones who hold back the progress for the majority of users.

The lack of many features is why so many photographers and filmmakers did already move to Sony and other brands in recent years, which clearly did hurt Canon's sales. Nearly all of them would have prefered to work with Canon, but looking at features and prices it made less sense. This fact has nothing to do with a personal opinion.

 

[douglaurent]

I think you're right; a lot of the noise about 4K is from people who are obsessed with ticking boxes on spec sheets, not people who actually use the feature.

My lists of missing specs do only include personal experiences of use with the 5D4 or 1DX2 that ended in results you can describe with "damn, this feature is so great in the Sony A7RII/other camera, why didn't Canon come up with it"?

 

[douglaurent]

Shameful: yes, this list is shameful for Canon, when you want to be the #1 on the market and charge prices of 4000+ euros for the cameras, while you're behind the competition regarding 20 important points. Historically Canon probably never has been that far behind in modern features, although they have just released their flagship products.

"...when you want to be the #1 on the market" - They already *are* #1, by a decent margin.

"...while you're behind the competition regarding 20 important points" - can't be all that important, given they're already number one!

Half of your "20 important points" are gimmicks, the other half specialty features that the average buyer isn't too concerned about.

With this attitude you could become a very successful citizen in North Corea.

 

[douglaurent]

Shameful: yes, this list is shameful for Canon, when you want to be the #1 on the market and charge prices of 4000+ euros for the cameras, while you're behind the competition regarding 20 important points. Historically Canon probably never has been that far behind in modern features, although they have just released their flagship products.

"...when you want to be the #1 on the market" - They already *are* #1, by a decent margin.

"...while you're behind the competition regarding 20 important points" - can't be all that important, given they're already number one!

Half of your "20 important points" are gimmicks, the other half specialty features that the average buyer isn't too concerned about.

Yeah, but they're critically important to douglaurent. So Canon is clearly doomed. I mean, clearly. What with all his extensive market research, talking to 50 people he claims feel the same way he does, douglaurent obviously knows more about the business of selling cameras than Canon.

I guess he and AvTvM both turned down those incredibly lucrative consulting oppotunities that Canon offered them. Bummer. :

Big congratulations to you, because If you think that my list of 20 features - from silent shooting to articulating screen etc - is completely irrelevant to you, it means you can already today buy THE perfect camera from Canon that can't be improved at any point in the future, aside from dynamic range and resolution!

 

[douglaurent]

Shameful: yes, this list is shameful for Canon, when you want to be the #1 on the market and charge prices of 4000+ euros for the cameras, while you're behind the competition regarding 20 important points. Historically Canon probably never has been that far behind in modern features, although they have just released their flagship products.
Who is their main competitor? Because I don't see 20 points where they are behind against Nikon

APS-C lenses: obviously this is an artificial limitation by Canon they could solve in a second if they like. If Canon full frame cameras had crop modes like Sony or Nikon, of course the use of such lenses would even be broader. With the new 4K crop that has no wide full frame alternative on the 5D4/1DX2, it would have been the right time to stop that stupid limitation!
it's not artificial. Put an EF-S lens on FF camera and the mirror hits the rear element. it is why they designed the EF-S mount the way they did.
What you are talking about is not EF-S lens compatabaility but sensor crop modes


Silent shooting: why not 100% silent? the 5D series are the wedding cameras #1, which photographer or guest enjoys the click noises? Canon simply needs to make a 5D4 mirrorless alternative. They could do, but for years first they try to figure out new camera systems with more different mounted lenses to the people and waste our lifetime.
The 6D is silent mode is very, very quiet. Why are you comparing it to 5D models when we are talking about a 6D v2? Have you even used the 6D?


Pixelshift: Pentax can do it, Canon probably does have a patent problem and want to protect their future high megapixel cameras, which is the main Canon philosophy: if you have 5 tasks, please buy and carry around 5 different cameras instead of 1. Just most people don't want or can do that, even if just a question of logistics and not money.
Nobody that I see has confirmed this is what the Pentax does.


Speedbooster: We can cross that off the list indeed, because unless all Canon full frame cameras don't have a crop shooting mode, it would be pretty useless anyway. And of course technically it's a problem aside from medium format lens adapter options.
The reason speedboosters were invented was to give shallower DOF because of the different characteristics of FF and MFT. A f4 image on MFT printed to the same size as a F picture has DOF of 5.6 on FF. So what you are saying is use APS-C crop mode then use a speed booster to produce a smaller image circle to give shallow DOF again. Why not just shoot at native f4 on FF and cut the expensive crap in the middle?


EVF: Nikon is even way more behind than Canon in many things, which is a problem because these two dinosaur companies havent realized yet it's not them alone anymore since it was decades, when they could slow down the pace as they liked. Unfortunately there is no pressure coming from Nikon, which makes it even more important to speak out as a Canon user.

But I thought Nikon was so far ahead of Canon in so many ways. I don't really see Sony as a competitor in the sense that 'Ooh, they have it so we must have it as well or lose market share'. Everything you mention is damn all to what really matters - image quality. Sony fall behind in one massive, important area - poor range of lenses. Canon gives an integrated system. Sony is not really the opposition to Canon, Nikon is and both companies believe that OVF with quality focus tracking and high quality post-sales support is the way to a successful company. Sony is said to have a great AF system - I dont recall seeing a single one.
If you want to see how Sony fares in traditional photographer working life:
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5684109129/lucky-number-7-shooting-pro-sports-with-the-sony-a7r-ii

So how far ahead is Sony in what matters? A real world-beater, obviously.

Fully assignable buttons: Like in a Sony camera, simply allow any function on any button of the camera - not just 2-10 random features like in a Canon camera menu. This way the A7R2 already does have a third wheel for ISO if you like by the way.
Is that really a 'deficiency'? Will that really affect your buying decision?

Too much effort to answer all this - and useless, because you are a happy Canon 6D/7D photographer that doesn't need anything else, which is fine. But for many time and the media environment went on, there is a requirement to do photos and videos with one camera - and if it's a bigger and more expensive camera than a phone, it better should deliver a lot more. For many the current offerings of Canon are not going far enough.

 

[douglaurent]

APS-C lenses: obviously this is an artificial limitation by Canon they could solve in a second if they like. If Canon full frame cameras had crop modes like Sony or Nikon, of course the use of such lenses would even be broader. With the new 4K crop that has no wide full frame alternative on the 5D4/1DX2, it would have been the right time to stop that stupid limitation!

EF-S bodies have a shorter mirror so Canon makes EF-S lenses sit further back in the mount, thus it would break your Full Frame body if you put an EF-S lens on it.

Are you questioning the knowledge douglaurent has gained by attending the Dilbertland School of Factoids and Other Stuff? :-X

Just did check it again. No Canon APS-C lens bottom could touch a Canon FF sensor. If Canon would like to do it, they could easily build it differently. Unfortunately long years ago some Canon marketing guru might have decided they sell more cameras and lenses with this limitation, and since then they have found no way out of it.

 

[Lenscracker]

I have not yet compared the two. I have not used the pixel shift except for one time just to see if it worked. I think that if Lightroom comes up with a way to accommodate pixel shift I will use it more.
I am just using the K1 for my "beater" camera, or when I need low angle, or when I will be photographing in rain and snow. Wish I could find more full frame weather resistant lenses. I only use the 100mm right now.

 

[Loswr]

If you read this thread carefully, you will read detailed lists with facts about what's missing.

Yes, the amount of missing knowledge you've displayed in this thread is quite significant.

Big congratulations to you, because If you think that my list of 20 features - from silent shooting to articulating screen etc - is completely irrelevant to you, it means you can already today buy THE perfect camera from Canon that can't be improved at any point in the future, aside from dynamic range and resolution!

I didn't say they are all irrelevant to me, my point is that given that the lack of them has not seemed to affect Canon's market share to date, they are likely not of sufficient importance to the general camera-buying public to make a difference. Get it?

 

[douglaurent]

If nothing unusual happens, the 6D2 will be the last Canon full frame release for this decade.

On the 6D2, Canon probably will implement 1-2 of the 10-20 missing modern features the 5D4 or 1DX2 would have urgently needed, and that's it until 2020, after Hillary started her second term.

Instead of reading this forum regarding Canon full frame cameras, in the next 4 years it might be enough if someone can send one alert email in the unlikely case Canon has found an answer to the existing Sony A7R2, 2017 released A7R3 and 2019 released A7R4 (as well as the Sony A9I and A9II who could include the autofocus and processing power of the A99II).

At the speed of innovations of the last 5 years, only in 2030 it could be possible to buy a Canon flagship camera with the same specs and comfort of a camera that Sony already has released in 2020.

it's nice to talk to someone with such indepth manufacturing, R&D and industry expertise.

May I ask who you work for?



btw .. there's a very good possibility that canon put things on hold until the ADC sensor and full frame DPAF sensor was ready. you really have no clue (nor do any of us) what the internal long term schedules are for canon.

4K really isn't interesting Canon into the next decade. if you had any idea on the industry you'd know why.

4K isn't interesting to Canon, although they have just released a C300II, C700, 5D4, 1DX2, XC15 who all have 4K - while at exhibitions they are also showing their 8K prototype cameras that actually already work, and while their Tokyo home is the first main place for 4K broadcasting?

 

[douglaurent]

App installation is the funniest part of that whole list.
Sony just uses that to make you pay for otherwise standard features... It's strictly there to take money for what in every other camera would be included in a firmware update.
Real progressive.

It's obvious you don't know the Sony app store. Half of the apps is free. The other half is cheap. Much better than buying a Canon product that sees no feature improvement all its life. No logic will prove that something is better than nothing.

 

[fallsong]

25MP? You got to be kidding!

How many camera made with odd number sensor? The guy who said he would be field tester told me it is 28MP.

 

[douglaurent]

App installation is the funniest part of that whole list.
Sony just uses that to make you pay for otherwise standard features... It's strictly there to take money for what in every other camera would be included in a firmware update.
Real progressive.

actually I spit out my coffee at speedbooster, pixel shift.

considering if you actually knew what you are doing.. you could have been using that tech for the last 10+ years already.

You're completely wrong with 10+ years - but if it was 10+ years, it would even be worse for Canon to be even more years behind.

 

[NancyP]

Amusingly enough for the Doug Laurents of the world - I actually LIKE shooting manual focus lenses in manual mode. I don't really see myself upgrading from 6D to 6D2 unless the new camera had either 1. signficantly improved DR while maintaining or improving the already good low light performance or 2. that swivel screen - although that may not work so well for me as I thought, because I use an L bracket most of the time, and my ground macro shots are on tripod and I need both portrait and landscape orientation. The L bracket on my 60D constrains the swivel screen so that it opens out 180 degrees but can't be further swiveled. I guess I have to accept muddy knees as the price of making the photos I want.

 

[douglaurent]

If you read this thread carefully, you will read detailed lists with facts about what's missing.

Yes, the amount of missing knowledge you've displayed in this thread is quite significant.

Big congratulations to you, because If you think that my list of 20 features - from silent shooting to articulating screen etc - is completely irrelevant to you, it means you can already today buy THE perfect camera from Canon that can't be improved at any point in the future, aside from dynamic range and resolution!

I didn't say they are all irrelevant to me, my point is that given that the lack of them has not seemed to affect Canon's market share to date, they are likely not of sufficient importance to the general camera-buying public to make a difference. Get it?

What does it help a photographer or filmmaker out in the field, when an articulating screen is missing, while Canon's marketshare is high? Will a photographer in a wedding church be more happy about a silent shutter or recordbreaking numbers for Canon? Will you be happy if 5 features are removed from your current camera, when you know Canon makes twice as much profit? Is this the Wallstreet Journal forum?

 

[douglaurent]

Amusingly enough for the Doug Laurents of the world - I actually LIKE shooting manual focus lenses in manual mode. I don't really see myself upgrading from 6D to 6D2 unless the new camera had either 1. signficantly improved DR while maintaining or improving the already good low light performance or 2. that swivel screen - although that may not work so well for me as I thought, because I use an L bracket most of the time, and my ground macro shots are on tripod and I need both portrait and landscape orientation. The L bracket on my 60D constrains the swivel screen so that it opens out 180 degrees but can't be further swiveled. I guess I have to accept muddy knees as the price of making the photos I want.

Dear manual focus photographer lady,
here is the personally for you reduced list of missing features you would love and don't want to miss if you have experienced them:

- Sensor stabilization
- Focus Peaking
- Pixelshift
- EVF reviewing
- Silent Photo Shooting
- Third wheel for ISO (through fully assignable buttons)

 

[Loswr]

APS-C lenses: obviously this is an artificial limitation by Canon they could solve in a second if they like. If Canon full frame cameras had crop modes like Sony or Nikon, of course the use of such lenses would even be broader. With the new 4K crop that has no wide full frame alternative on the 5D4/1DX2, it would have been the right time to stop that stupid limitation!

EF-S bodies have a shorter mirror so Canon makes EF-S lenses sit further back in the mount, thus it would break your Full Frame body if you put an EF-S lens on it.

Are you questioning the knowledge douglaurent has gained by attending the Dilbertland School of Factoids and Other Stuff? :-X

Just did check it again. No Canon APS-C lens bottom could touch a Canon FF sensor. If Canon would like to do it, they could easily build it differently. Unfortunately long years ago some Canon marketing guru might have decided they sell more cameras and lenses with this limitation, and since then they have found no way out of it.

Who said it would touch the sensor? I'm not sure if the problem is your lack of reading comprehension, or your lack of knowledge.

Certain EF-S lenses (the -S originally referred to short back focus) protrude sufficiently into the mirror box that the mirror of a Canon FF camera will hit the back of the lens when if flips up to take a shot.

Why don't you check it one more time - pop out the baffle on the back of an EF-S 10-22mm (set lens to 22mm, hook your finger into the hole, and pull), then mount the lens on one of your 1DX II bodies, set the lens to 10mm, and hold down the shutter for a nice, long 14 fps burst. I'm sure Canon will be able to install a new mirror assembly for you.