Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

romanr74 said:
unfocused said:
You have added a causal relationship (release of specific high-end Canon cameras, 5D models) to the data that is not supported by anything in the data and is logically just wrong. Logically, the sales of any full frame camera constitutes too small of a percentage of overall sales for the effect you have assigned to it. You have no access to information that would make your assumed link between 5D sales and overall sales valid.

I did not do anything like that at all... Why are you saying that?

Why did you include the release dates of the 5D models if you did not believe it was relevant?


romanr74 said:
unfocused said:
In short, your data is unreliable and, even if it was reliable, it would not support your conclusions.

I make no conclusions. You make up conclusions yourself. I only describe the data I see...

Pardon me. I thought you were trying to make a point. Apparently, you just wanted to share random data that you admit has no meaning.

That would confirm my original statement, then, wouldn't it.
 
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unfocused said:
romanr74 said:
unfocused said:
You have added a causal relationship (release of specific high-end Canon cameras, 5D models) to the data that is not supported by anything in the data and is logically just wrong. Logically, the sales of any full frame camera constitutes too small of a percentage of overall sales for the effect you have assigned to it. You have no access to information that would make your assumed link between 5D sales and overall sales valid.

I did not do anything like that at all... Why are you saying that?

Why did you include the release dates of the 5D models if you did not believe it was relevant?


romanr74 said:
unfocused said:
In short, your data is unreliable and, even if it was reliable, it would not support your conclusions.

I make no conclusions. You make up conclusions yourself. I only describe the data I see...

Pardon me. I thought you were trying to make a point. Apparently, you just wanted to share random data that you admit has no meaning.

That would confirm my original statement, then, wouldn't it.

i included the 5d release dates as reference.
everybody is invited to draw their own conclusions.
if this has no meaning to you, fine...
 
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romanr74 said:
however i do believe they are a very good indicator in particular the canon vs. nikon comparison.
if someone has better data then please share it.

Already posted. 2014, Canon with 43% of the ILC market, Nikon with 32%. Your numbers for 2015 suggest Canon gained a very slight amount of market share, and the 1H2016 quarterly results show Canon has gained more meaningfully relative to Nikon so far this year.

So overall, Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and for the past ~10 years they've hovered in the range of 43-46% ILC market share.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
romanr74 said:
however i do believe they are a very good indicator in particular the canon vs. nikon comparison.
if someone has better data then please share it.

Already posted. 2014, Canon with 43% of the ILC market, Nikon with 32%. Your numbers for 2015 suggest Canon gained a very slight amount of market share, and the 1H2016 quarterly results show Canon has gained more meaningfully relative to Nikon so far this year.

So overall, Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and for the past ~10 years they've hovered in the range of 43-46% ILC market share.

can you be a tiny tad more outspoken on the data source? just for reference...
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Your numbers for 2015 suggest Canon gained a very slight amount of market share, and the 1H2016 quarterly results show Canon has gained more meaningfully relative to Nikon so far this year.

My data suggests that for 2015 both Canon and Nikon lost market share by loosing -11% and -12% volume respectively, with a market shrinking only -6%. Yet Nikon loosing more than Canon.

When I add the market data Nikon shows in their presentation and apply your 2014 market share to assess the Canon volumes, which leads for 2015 to a correct ballpark number compared to the 2.5 million milcs statet by rrcphoto, the data suggests that Canon and Nikon combined lost 8% of the market in 2015 versus 2013, 4% of market each year combined over Canon and Nikon, 4% of market each Canon and Nikon over the two years.
 
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Mikehit said:
How much did mirrorless lose (given that the nub of the conversation is that CaNikon are losing out to more progressive manufacturers).

At the moment I am not convinced I would employ you as a market analyst...

CIPA suggests "Interchangeable Lens Cameras Non-Reflex" has grown by 1% 2015 over 2013. "Non-Reflex" includes cameras such as so-called mirrorless cameras, compact system cameras, rangefinder cameras with interchangeable lens and interchangeable unit system cameras, and similar cameras.

CIPA suggests "Interchangeable Lens Cameras Reflex" has fallen by -30% over the same timeframe.

I'm not looking for an employment... And you couldn't afford.
 
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romanr74 said:
neuroanatomist said:
romanr74 said:
however i do believe they are a very good indicator in particular the canon vs. nikon comparison.
if someone has better data then please share it.

Already posted. 2014, Canon with 43% of the ILC market, Nikon with 32%. Your numbers for 2015 suggest Canon gained a very slight amount of market share, and the 1H2016 quarterly results show Canon has gained more meaningfully relative to Nikon so far this year.

So overall, Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and for the past ~10 years they've hovered in the range of 43-46% ILC market share.

can you be a tiny tad more outspoken on the data source? just for reference...

From the previous page of this topic (or maybe it's two pages back by now):
neuroanatomist said:
marketshare.jpg

See the bottom right corner, where it says Source: IDC.
http://www.idc.com
http://petapixel.com/2015/12/05/interchangeable-lens-camera-market-share-in-2014/


romanr74 said:
neuroanatomist said:
romanr74 said:
however i do believe they are a very good indicator in particular the canon vs. nikon comparison.
if someone has better data then please share it.

Already posted. 2014, Canon with 43% of the ILC market, Nikon with 32%. Your numbers for 2015 suggest Canon gained a very slight amount of market share, and the 1H2016 quarterly results show Canon has gained more meaningfully relative to Nikon so far this year.

So overall, Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and for the past ~10 years they've hovered in the range of 43-46% ILC market share.

My data suggests that for 2015 both Canon and Nikon lost market share by loosing -11% and -12% volume respectively, with a market shrinking only -6%. Yet Nikon loosing more than Canon.

I was referring to the Canon vs. Nikon comparison. Nikon losing more than Canon means Canon gaining relative to Nikon.
 
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Dear canon shooters,

I just recently noticed the excistence of this forum, so I just made my account.
Now I have to say that I am totaly shocked about the post one can read here. 80% of reactions dont make any sence here.

I do have a message for some of you, but my text will become quitte long, so sorry on that one :)

There are a few topics where I want to share my thoughts with you all.
These are:

* Electronic viewfinder ingetration in EOS
* Upcoming Fullframe mirrorless
* Upcoming 6D mark II
* The notion of wanting EF-s lenses on EF
* Videography on DSLR's
* Personal wishes for lower End fullframe camera


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* Electronic viewfinder ingetration in EOS.
I keep hearing amateures complaints about the Canons not having EVF yet.
I can fully understand the need of that for many beginners that are now used to get liveview from their smartphones or cameras.
Where they can 'see what they get', yet often still dont know how to adjust 'that getting'.
Many of us may think canon doesnt want to ingetrate it because of shutterlag.
Now that part is in 2016 almost totaly gone, and the Sony A7 and Fuji XT2 is more than fast enough for 90% of the vacation shots.

The thing is in profesional fotography is, that one can't pre-see a flash.
Which basically means the EVF is no real advantage in flash photograpy.

Ohter than that there just is a strong demand on the market for a 1D series camera that has enough battery power for a whole soccer game long.
With the camera on continues standby, there is a reason while the 1D doesnt have touchscreen for menu options, its just too much energy sucking.
Its just not done in the proffesionals world to miss a sportshot because of battery change.
Which basically means that even in 2050 there will be a chance that canon still produces OVF on the 1D series.

People should realise Canon has become big in photography because of affoardeble long Teles under $20.000.
And they got the beast tele lenses 24-70 and 70-200 that blow the competition sort of away.
Canon just has luck that it became such a populair in the digital world, between 2000-2012.
In the Film days canon was completely nowhere on the consumer sales,
they were outrun by Kodak low ends consumer cameras.

But in 2012 till 2016 people just thinking different and might not want the features that the 1D market demands.
And thats a valid argument seeing my own pictures where I might been aible to make 90% of them on a mirrorless camera aswell.

That is BTW the same argument that Jason Lanier made a several times.
There was a Commercial where a photographer made pictures of penguins on antarctica proving how weaterresist the body was.
The question remains, do you really need ANTARCTICA sealed body's for Italy vacation shots?

Question remains, does the mirrorles competition really have great alternatives when it comes to lens choises and flashes?
-Sony not really, advantage is to get lenses with adapter but that doesnt make it look like it supports the pro market
-Fuji, yes but no fullframes and no cheap new lenses,
-Pentax YES THEY HAVE when considering their vintage K mount lenses on ebay. Which brings me to my next point.


===============================================================================================
* Upcoming Fullframe mirrorless
Now many of you might be asking why canon didnt follow Sony in 2012 with the Emounts fullframes.
I suspect canon really wanting to join the full frame mirrorles market,
but they just need input if the market would accept a new lens mount.

It's a damm fact that a mirrorless camera can be made a bit smaller, but you need longer lenses for on the same focal lenght.
Now between 2012 and 2016 we have seen 2 other competition members operating in this Fullframe market.

Sony made the Emount, but had issues constructing fast wide angle primes for this mount. So small is not really an advantage.
And now Sony seems to be investing in the A mount again to offer the short commings.
Pentax made the K1, just with the old mount, keeping the camera a bit bigger but having the possibility for consumers to use all their old glass.
I think Canon just wanted to learn from this what poeple liked most. They just need market demands input from profesionals and consumers.

Now as we have read the rumors, Canon will remain the EF mount on mirrorless, so they go the Pentax way.

I really think we should see this upcomming Canon fullframe mirrorless as a competition runner to the K1 rather than the Sony A7 series.
The market now has accept that in the end you cant get around of long lenses, which is the main answer for Canon now.


===============================================================================================
* Upcoming 6D mark II
I am affraid it might become a big dissappointment for most.
Since we see decreasing camera sales, we see camera mfg asking more and more money now.
The fact is that canon cant be making this 6D II as good as mentioned here on the forum.
It would eat the sales of the 5D.
Other than that, I see new Canon 5DSR for 2400 new on the web, the Canon 5D mark III for 2000.
The new 6D II will probably go around for 1800 only offering a Flappy screen and duo SD slots and a bit of more DR/Iso performance.
That just is not worth the higher price.


===============================================================================================
* The notion of wanting EF-s lenses on EF
I have seen quitte many people asking for this feature in the EOS line up.
My question is, whats the point?
I have used many of them but can only recommend 3 EFS lenses to buy in the first place, and having reasons to look further.

These 3 are:
24MM F2.8, Great wide angle, but the lens get outperformed by sigma 20mm on sharpness and Voigtländer 20mm for colorrendering.
60MM F2.8 Macro, Great macro and alround, the thing is, the 50mm F1.8 is better alround and you are better off with a used 100mm Macro for true subject isolation.
18-135MM NANO IS, Great Image Stability, but Image quality is nowhere compared to primes.

All other Canon EFS are total crapp and you are better of avoiding them.
Dont buy the 70-300mm/ 55-250mm and 18-300mm sigma. Its all crap quality, save up 200 bugs more and get an used 200mm USM L from ebay.
Please do that! Please people!!!!!!!

I understand people bought the Sigma 50-100mm F1.8 but hat one is already able to use on FF.
I really have the feeling canon just doesnt want to take proper efford to make nice primes on the EFS line up.


===============================================================================================
* Videography on DSLR's
I honestly don't know why there is so much demand for video features in the DSLR.
Working with OVF in video producement is a pain! The manufacturing cost of a penta prism just cost like 200-300$.
It's precision allignment! Just dont hunt or wait or expect canon to make video features in the 2000$+ stills camera
Canon makes the XC10 and XC15 now for less than that.
People just be honest what you want, stop crying the video specs, if its video buy those XC10's.
If you really need both the best of stills and video, just go panasonic, they are specilist in those combined hybrid cameras.
Canon wont join this market since there is just not enough profit in it. Panasonic goes almost bankrupt now.

The 5D mark II did well on 1080p, but fullframe sensors just suffer overheating issues on 4k.
1 Inch and MFT sensors rules 4k video in 2016. ACCEPT that.


===============================================================================================
* Personal wishes for lower End fullframe camera
Now let me get honest, even I start complaining about the 6D mark II although I already made up my mind.
I am not in the run for one. And some of you might question what I am doing here.

The thing I miss in the Current EOS line up are the spec from the Canon 1D classic.
Sync speed up to 1/500, max shutter speed up to 1/16000.
Those are the spec that help prosumers when they first start in budget flash photography.
It's just a shame canon does not offer a hardcore Low iso performance CCD sensor anymore.
I believe there is still group of photographers that doesnt give a damm thing about the 2016 must have features.
Those 1D classics DSLRs dont have liveview, but not needed actually, on top of that canon has invested in mirrorshake reduction (5DSR).
The reasults of the 1D mark Classic are still useble today. There is a good reason while Lyca still makes use of CCD sensors.

My dream would be.
- Dual SD slots
- Magnesium body build
- CCD sensor, 8 till 16 MP which is far enough for my A3 prints and online facebooks and sharing.
- Flash sync to 1/500 and shutter 1/16000 like 1D classic
- Buttun layout like the 6D is fair.
- Hoping for a few more C modes for preset of flash and AF track options and more options to store selfmade picture styles.
- AF system of the 80D or 1D classic
- Last thing is I which canon keeps putting a lot efford in making their camera less engery consuming.
- I dont need Wifi connection. Uploading 400 raw files tru internet is a total pain.
Rather sell SD card readers for smartphones for quick sharing.


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Thank you for reading!
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''Video on DSLRS: Get an XC10/XC15"

That's not a camera for the market the shoots video with DSLRs, especially FF DSLRs. It's a s16/1'' deep DOF nimble camera for news and sports and event gathering. Nothing made towards large APS-C and FF sensors with Large iris.

What i'd say is want video: Just buy a C100.

That's an APS-C camera with a native 4K 8mp sensor downsampled to perfect 1080p. With a body designed for every bit a videographer could want/need.

Most people don't realize the Cinema EOS C100 is 2499$!!

If you want 60p slowmotion and swivle vs tilt screen:

C100 MKII is 3999$

This model has a big bright EVF. Large swivle LCD. EF mount. Zebras/peaking/waveform monitor/ 15 assignable buttons, small for, factor, almost DSLR-ish, one of the best 60p slowmotion, clean 422 HDMI out, XLR inputs with real audio knobs, C Log, everything.

So Canom does offer a DSLR-priced cinema/video option. And the XC10 is for those who were painfully using the 5D with a rode mic for news/documentary.
 
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The notion of the C100 might be valid, it all depends on the video expectations indeed.

I am a troll??
Before the Brexit this https://tesento.com/store/index.php/canon-eos-5ds-r.html
company sold 5DSR for 2500 euros. Believe it or not.
IMG_1244_zpslmf7hzdr.jpg


Dunno where you live, but it's almost christmas time and be then Canon always gives you some discount if you have registrated 3 L lenses, 1 Full frame body and 1 Crop and log in on their page.

Please dont play the KEYBOARD WARRIOR.
 
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