Canon EOS 70D Announced

[pedro]

unfortunately, I think the elephant in the room is the high iso performance. According to a post in another thread,
from imaging resource: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-70d/canon-70dA.HTM
"Sensitivity. Equally important is the Canon 70D's noise performance. Here, the extra horsepower of DIGIC 5+ should allow more sophisticated noise reduction algorithms, while the newer sensor design is said to mitigate effects of the reduced pixel pitch. Canon claims raw performance should be on par with the EOS 60D at like sensitivities, despite the slightly higher resolution. For JPEG and video shooting, the company promises a "huge improvement" in noise levels, although it doesn't state precisely what would constitute "huge".
"
That doesn't bode well for any kind of improvement on the 7D ii (if there is such a thing). IMO, better high iso performance was THE thing I was hoping for in the next generation of APS-C. And in-camera noise redction on the jgp doesn't help me at all.

IMO, sensor improvement related to better high ISO is not crucial for APS-C only. What is tested out now somehow will result in other enhanced sensor fabrication types of upcoming FF bodies. So I will stay tuned for any news about this subject.

 

[x-vision]

I think the most interesting thing about this camera is what we now can expect from the 7DII and the other pro-grade bodies we are waiting for.

It's no point releasing an upgrade to the 7D, unless it has significant performance/feature improvements over the 70D. And if that happens, we should be in for some real treats when we approach the 5DIV, 3D, 1DXI etc.

The only problems I see are patience and funding ...

+1000

ROFL!!!

 

[x-vision]

No mention of a dedicated AF processor, just like 7D/5DIII have. It's what it makes their AF exceptional. 70D "only" has a Digic5+.

I have this feeling the AF will not on pair with the 7D's.

According to this preview, the 70D has the same dedicated AF sensor as the 7D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUMPxIxi8zo#ws

 

[Marsu42]

IMO, sensor improvement related to better high ISO is not crucial for APS-C only.

IMhO there is an absolute requirement for usable iso, at least for 90% of things people shoot. Yes, with super-high dr or extreme iso you can either shoot in the dark, ultra-fast movements or in any high contrast - but that doesn't happen that often.

Since the current crop sensors cannot compete for available light indoor shooting of moving subjects, for ok light I find a good iso 1600 crucial, and unfortunately this is just where the current 18mp crop sensor falls short. So my benchmark for "good enough for forever" would be +1.5ev better performance than now, but neither the d7100 or the 70d will be there yet, and if only because they trade more mp for more/same noise.

 

[neuroanatomist]

According to <this video> the 70D has the same dedicated AF sensor as the 7D.

The dedicated AF sensor, yes. But we're talking about the dedicated AF processor, a separate chip on the logic board that processes the data from the AF sensor. The 7D was the first body outside of the 1-series to have a separate AF processor, the 5DIII has one, as well.

 

[x-vision]

According to <this video> the 70D has the same dedicated AF sensor as the 7D.

The dedicated AF sensor, yes. But we're talking about the dedicated AF processor, a separate chip on the logic board that processes the data from the AF sensor. The 7D was the first body outside of the 1-series to have a separate AF processor, the 5DIII has one, as well.

Yes, I know what you are saying.
The 70D appears to have the same dedicated AF processor as the 7D.

 

[whothafunk]

Where did you pick that up? I went through watching whole video again and there is no mention of a dedicated AF processor.

I'm not saying that it doesn't have one, but up till now, there hasnt been a word said about it.

 

[Don Haines]

Looks like a very promising APS-C, clearly to me the baseline of future cameras to come and probably the first signs of a highly capable (pro level) mirrorless not that far into the future, accounting for the obvious improvements there will be to this tech wrt AF speed and framerate.

Which makes me wonder...while not performing AF function, what are those extra 20M pixels doing??? seems like an awful lot of sensor real state to waste isn't it? What if those pixels are actually put to contribute to IQ when the picture is grabbed? how about some interpolation / oversampling to tremendously improve high ISO performance....

Just wondering and dreaming... :

When shooting an image, the reading from both pixels of the pair is summed. This raises an interesting possibility of an extra stop of dynamic range, depending on how things are implemented. If the 7D2 uses the same technology, will they push the idea further? Allow a mode with all pixels saved? Combine 4 pixels for 2 stops of DR? Interesting times and possibilities ahead.....

 

[neuroanatomist]

Yes, I know what you are saying.
The 70D appears to have the same dedicated AF processor as the 7D.

What is your evidence for that statement? It's not mentioned in the video you linked which you earlier claimed said the 70D has the 7D's dedicated AF sensor (which it does). In fact, that video doesn't even explicitly say the 70D has the 7D's AF sensor, although it's clearly implied when they call the 19-pt AF 'proven'.

 

[x-vision]

Yes, I know what you are saying.
The 70D appears to have the same dedicated AF processor as the 7D.

What is your evidence for that statement? It's not mentioned in the video you linked which you earlier claimed said the 70D has the 7D's dedicated AF sensor (which it does).

Sorry, I must have quoted the wrong source.

Because the dedicated AF processor is not advertised, I also assumed that the 70D doesn't have it.
But then it popped up in one the technical previews/articles that I've been reading since last night.
Right now I don't actually know which one was that. I thought it was in the video that I linked.

 

[alfredo]

When shooting an image, the reading from both pixels of the pair is summed. This raises an interesting possibility of an extra stop of dynamic range, depending on how things are implemented. If the 7D2 uses the same technology, will they push the idea further? Allow a mode with all pixels saved? Combine 4 pixels for 2 stops of DR? Interesting times and possibilities ahead.....

Something that the DIGIC6 may be able to process? Not many people complain the 70D "only" got the DIGIC5+, what are we missing?

 

[Don Haines]

When shooting an image, the reading from both pixels of the pair is summed. This raises an interesting possibility of an extra stop of dynamic range, depending on how things are implemented. If the 7D2 uses the same technology, will they push the idea further? Allow a mode with all pixels saved? Combine 4 pixels for 2 stops of DR? Interesting times and possibilities ahead.....

Something that the DIGIC6 may be able to process? Not many people complain the 70D "only" got the DIGIC5+, what are we missing?

Dual digic 6?

 

[Marsu42]

But we're talking about the dedicated AF processor, a separate chip on the logic board that processes the data from the AF sensor.

I think everyone will agree that it doesn't matter if it's a separate chip or if its integrated into a new, faster digic cpu - the real question is if 19pt af means that it's actually as capable as the 7d in servo mode, worse, or even better (i.e. more precision than the 7d).

 

[neuroanatomist]

But we're talking about the dedicated AF processor, a separate chip on the logic board that processes the data from the AF sensor.

I think everyone will agree that it doesn't matter if it's a separate chip or if its integrated into a new, faster digic cpu - the real question is if 19pt af means that it's actually as capable as the 7d in servo mode, worse, or even better (i.e. more precision than the 7d).

Except that it very well might matter. The 5DIII and 70D both have a Digic5+. The 5DIII is 22 MP at 6 fps = 132 MP/s; the 70D is 20 MP at 7 fps = 140 MP/s, so more is required of the 70D's Digic5+ engine already. However, the 5DIII does have a dedicated AF processor. So if the 70D does not (and I still have not seen anything suggesting that it does), that may mean performance has to be sacrificed somewhere...

 

[unfocused]

Canon says the 70D will be released near the end of September. Does anyone know or have an educated guess as to when production models will be available to testing sites and publications for more thorough review?

Will they get copies in advance or have to wait until the camera starts shipping?

Of the sample images that Canon has released (at least that I've found) only one is at ISO 1600, nothing higher and nothing that isn't a smallish low resolution image. That's kind of worrisome.

 

[Hobby Shooter]

But we're talking about the dedicated AF processor, a separate chip on the logic board that processes the data from the AF sensor.

I think everyone will agree that it doesn't matter if it's a separate chip or if its integrated into a new, faster digic cpu - the real question is if 19pt af means that it's actually as capable as the 7d in servo mode, worse, or even better (i.e. more precision than the 7d).

I don't know much about how a camera i constructed but if it resembles a computer server in any way it is rarely tje CPUs that ends up being the bottleneck in data transfer. That normally depends on bus speeds and connectivity components.

Except that it very well might matter. The 5DIII and 70D both have a Digic5+. The 5DIII is 22 MP at 6 fps = 132 MP/s; the 70D is 20 MP at 7 fps = 140 MP/s, so more is required of the 70D's Digic5+ engine already. However, the 5DIII does have a dedicated AF processor. So if the 70D does not (and I still have not seen anything suggesting that it does), that may mean performance has to be sacrificed somewhere...

 

[bleephotography]

Of the sample images that Canon has released (at least that I've found) only one is at ISO 1600, nothing higher and nothing that isn't a smallish low resolution image. That's kind of worrisome.

Exactly.

If there were actually an improvement in noise performance, you'd think they would advertise as such with some images at an ISO of 3200-6400; which leads me to believe there is, in fact, no improvement in Raw.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The sample set on canon.jp shows an ISO 3200 image (sax player). But no RAW files anywhere, yet.

 

[dlleno]

Of the sample images that Canon has released (at least that I've found) only one is at ISO 1600, nothing higher and nothing that isn't a smallish low resolution image. That's kind of worrisome.

Exactly.

If there were actually an improvement in noise performance, you'd think they would advertise as such with some images at an ISO of 3200-6400; which leads me to believe there is, in fact, no improvement in Raw.

I still reserve a little skepticism, remembering the fanfare around the ISO performance of the 7D. Also its too early to know if this is the same sensor to appear on the 7D2 and whether or not ISO performance of these two bodies will be equivalent, or if there is still a rabbit left in the hat for the 7.

 

[unfocused]

The sample set on canon.jp shows an ISO 3200 image (sax player). But no RAW files anywhere, yet.

Thanks. I found a picture of a dog and one of a kid riding a bike that had ISO 12,800 printed next to them. Since I don't know Japanese, I don't know for sure what they are showing, but it appears they were showing that you could capture action with high ISO, as they were paired with fuzzy, motion blurred shots of the same subjects.

They looked great at 72ppi and about 300 px wide, but who knows what they look like up close and before processing. Trying to keep hope alive.