Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon

[Richard8971]

Um, no they didn't do that.

Say what you want, but Canon DID merge two lines and they can do it again with the XXD line and XD line. Simple enough.

Unless you somehow have insider information to Canon's prototypes and roadmap...or do you? : None of us really know for sure what they are going to do, so all of us here have dreams of new future equipment being offered.

D

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ?

Depending on the card you use, some people (e.g. dpreview.com) already get 24 RAW frame burst instead of Canon's stated 15 RAW frame burst. However dpreview report that the 5D Mark III is limited to 17 whilst Canon claim 18.

So on the one hand, Canon are overstating the performance (5D Mark III) which is what we'd expect, and on the other hand (7D), Canon seem to be understating the performance.

You can get way more than 17 on a 5D3!

"A few numbers (all tests at 1/800th shutter, no IS, no AF, no NR or any other in cam jpg special processing options, max continuous drive mode selected (7D pointed at a bright light so as to maintain max frame rate)) with the raw number being number of shots before you hear it slow down shooting and timed number is the continuous time you could shoot non-stop at the camera's max frame rate (derived by a simple frames/max fps of camera):

Test 1 (lens cap on or super underexposed near black frames (i.e. with requiring minimum for storage) at ISO100 on 5D3):

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

(so the Lexar 1000x makes a surprisingly large difference on the 5D3 and is well worth the $ if you seriously shoot action with the 5D3, do note that the 16GB 1000x card is said to be slower than the 32GB and larger 1000x cards so the advantage may be less if you go for the 16GB size; with this speed card the 5D3 continuous shooting time easily beats the 5D2 and 7D)

Test 2 (as above but on a 5D2):
16 shots (4.1s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
17 shots (4.3s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 5D2; with this speed card the 5D3 actually lets you shoot continuously for less long than the 5D2 or 7D)

Test 3 (as above but on a 7D):
29 shots (3.7s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
28 shots (3.5s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 7D, same result)

Test 4 (these have an actual image being shot and the ISOs are higher so each RAW file is larger, the performance drops considerably, especially above ISO800 and NOTE that the numbers will vary depending upon the scene shot as different scenes and exposures will produce different file sizes and any given scenario may bump all the numbers noticeably up or down; all are on the Lexar 32GB 1000x card):

ISO3200 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s) - a big drop from the 35 for ISO100 black frame
ISO1600 5D3 - 24 shots (4s)
ISO800 5D3 - 30 shots (5s)

Test 5 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card was used in all cases):

ISO3200 5D3 - 14 shots (2.3s)
ISO1600 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s)
ISO800 5D3 - 22 shots (3.7s)

Test 6 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s card was used):
ISO800 5D3 - 15 shots (2.5s)

So yeah for most Canon cameras the Lexar 1000x will not be worth the money at all (unless you are want to pay that much for faster transfer speed to your computer and your computer supports USB3 and you have a USB3 card read that also takes full UDMA 7 advantage) but for the 5D3 wow if you are serious about shooting action and dont want to be saddled with a shorter shooting time buffer than the old 5D2 or 7D then get the Lexar 1000x, suddenly you actually can shoot for longer times non-stop than with the 5D2 or 7D and often by a large margin. So for the 5D3 and action it is well worth it. "

 

[Richard8971]

I would have to agree with many of the posts here. If this new firmware becomes reality I would say that any new 7D would be delayed OR merged with the XXD. Why?

Well, when Canon first introduced the 7D it featured many new technologies. Even so, the 50D and 7D were pretty close in basic features (15MP, 6.3fps vs 18MP, 8fps) and Canon could NOT have the "semi-pro" XXD line positioned so closely to their flagship APS-C camera!

Tada!!! The 60D!!! It featured a plastic body, reduced frame rate and other things that separated it from the 7D and kept it about $500 cheaper.

Now we have the T4i. It might as well be the next 60D in terms of features/fps and it costs about a hundred less at the present time. In many ways the T4i appears to be a superior camera. That 'ups' the bar for any new XXD line, BY A LOT!!! The given price range for 2 high performance cameras in-between a possible budget FF and the Rebel doesn't make much sense. Better to drop the XXD line and go for the throat. Make one hell of a flagship ASP-C camera! Besides, it would make the competition against any new budget FF lower for Canon, sales-wise.

D

 

[psyrex]

(Once a buyer crosses the physiological threshold of $1,000, it's pretty easy to get them to pop for a few hundred dollars more.)

I see a guy at a camera store laying down cash, then, as he gets close to $1k, his heart rate increases, eyes swim, and ears pound. His arm, aching and quivering, slowly advances until his cash triumphantly reaches the counter top! He quickly drops a few hundred dollars more, swoops up his camera, and races out of the store! [freeze frame at the door, in silhouette, one arm extended in glory!].

Yeah, pretty sure that's not a typo. I'm so doing that on my next purchase.

 

[Richard8971]

What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ?

Depending on the card you use, some people (e.g. dpreview.com) already get 24 RAW frame burst instead of Canon's stated 15 RAW frame burst. However dpreview report that the 5D Mark III is limited to 17 whilst Canon claim 18.

So on the one hand, Canon are overstating the performance (5D Mark III) which is what we'd expect, and on the other hand (7D), Canon seem to be understating the performance.

You can get way more than 17 on a 5D3!

"A few numbers (all tests at 1/800th shutter, no IS, no AF, no NR or any other in cam jpg special processing options, max continuous drive mode selected (7D pointed at a bright light so as to maintain max frame rate)) with the raw number being number of shots before you hear it slow down shooting and timed number is the continuous time you could shoot non-stop at the camera's max frame rate (derived by a simple frames/max fps of camera):

Test 1 (lens cap on or super underexposed near black frames (i.e. with requiring minimum for storage) at ISO100 on 5D3):

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

(so the Lexar 1000x makes a surprisingly large difference on the 5D3 and is well worth the $ if you seriously shoot action with the 5D3, do note that the 16GB 1000x card is said to be slower than the 32GB and larger 1000x cards so the advantage may be less if you go for the 16GB size; with this speed card the 5D3 continuous shooting time easily beats the 5D2 and 7D)

Test 2 (as above but on a 5D2):
16 shots (4.1s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
17 shots (4.3s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 5D2; with this speed card the 5D3 actually lets you shoot continuously for less long than the 5D2 or 7D)

Test 3 (as above but on a 7D):
29 shots (3.7s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
28 shots (3.5s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 7D, same result)

Test 4 (these have an actual image being shot and the ISOs are higher so each RAW file is larger, the performance drops considerably, especially above ISO800 and NOTE that the numbers will vary depending upon the scene shot as different scenes and exposures will produce different file sizes and any given scenario may bump all the numbers noticeably up or down; all are on the Lexar 32GB 1000x card):

ISO3200 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s) - a big drop from the 35 for ISO100 black frame
ISO1600 5D3 - 24 shots (4s)
ISO800 5D3 - 30 shots (5s)

Test 5 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card was used in all cases):

ISO3200 5D3 - 14 shots (2.3s)
ISO1600 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s)
ISO800 5D3 - 22 shots (3.7s)

Test 6 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s card was used):
ISO800 5D3 - 15 shots (2.5s)

So yeah for most Canon cameras the Lexar 1000x will not be worth the money at all (unless you are want to pay that much for faster transfer speed to your computer and your computer supports USB3 and you have a USB3 card read that also takes full UDMA 7 advantage) but for the 5D3 wow if you are serious about shooting action and dont want to be saddled with a shorter shooting time buffer than the old 5D2 or 7D then get the Lexar 1000x, suddenly you actually can shoot for longer times non-stop than with the 5D2 or 7D and often by a large margin. So for the 5D3 and action it is well worth it. "

Um, forgive me, but wasn't he asking about fps and NOT burst rate? Isn't that what 'fps' means? Or am I misreading it?

D

 

[briansquibb]

There is no doubt in my mind that the faster cards must be a major contributor. When the 7D was released then the faster cards were not around so the firmware upgrade makes sense. At 24 frames RAW the 7D is getting into 1D4 territory ( which is also noticeably better with the 90mb cards)

 

[distant.star]

.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.

Two disagreements with unfocus:

1. I've never heard physiology expressed in economic terms. Perhaps you mean "psychological."

2. Canon is preparing for a 7D2 that will be the APS-C equivalent of the 1DX. Pricing will be in the $2500 to $3000 range. If they can get past the gross irresponsibility of the 1DX delivery failure, the 7D2 is the next big project.

They are going to introduce a 7D2...could also suggest that it may be APS-H...

Reaching out a hand to shake your shoulder and wake you up from the dream... :

Thank God somebody has some sense here.

Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

The 70D will get the autofocus and most other characteristics of the 7D (except the alloy body). It will go up to about $1,300-$1,400 U.S. Close enough to the T4i to enable retailers to upsale potential customers. (Once a buyer crosses the physiological threshold of $1,000, it's pretty easy to get them to pop for a few hundred dollars more.)

That still leaves lots of room for a 7DII, which will get a new sensor, higher frame rate, enhanced autofocus, enhanced weathersealing and whatever else Canon decides to cram into it (driven by their targeted price point.) Pricing will be anywhere from $1,700 to $2,400 depending on features.

If it's under $2,000, we could see a 7Dx with an integrated grip and full weathersealing. (Professional sports/wildlife camera to replace the APS-H 1D. They can sell the pro-level for anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 depending on how they target and market it.

Bottom line, Canon has at least $1,000 to $1,500 in headroom between the top Rebel and the flagship APS-C 7DII. That's plenty of room for a 70D and maybe even something else.

This fixation with an arbitrary numbering nomenclature as though it has to follow certain imaginary rules is just weird.

 

[briansquibb]

.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.

That has never been stated by Canon - in fact there are hints that the APS-H sized sensor will be used in video.

It is daft to make statements like that unless you have inside info on Canon's technical tactical plans.

I would have said the recent 650D announcement and other rumours would have made it more likely. The APS-H sensor has proven itself at high mps which means that the rumoured non 1 series high mps might well be APS-H as a high mps ff would be more expensive and take the sales away from the 1DX (which isn't going to happen)

A 'inferior' APS-H sensored, small bodied, cheaper but high mps body would slot in nicely between the 5DIII and the 1DX.

I think it is APS-C which will come under pressure as the 'budget' sector puts in APS-C sensors - then the $500 handy cams would start giving images as good as the entry level DSLRs - meaning soccer mums and uncle joes would have no reason to buy DSLRs - in which case the volume entry level collapses taking with it the upgraders as well, just leaving the enthusiasts and a few pros

 

[distant.star]

.
Daft is actually quite fun, Brian. You should give it a go!

Daft though I be, I am rarely wrong.

If you see an APS-H in any Canon camera in the next few years, let me know. I'll come over and treat you to a nice tea biscuit and a few orange slices (California oranges!).

.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.

That has never been stated by Canon - in fact there are hints that the APS-H sized sensor will be used in video.

It is daft to make statements like that unless you have inside info on Canon's technical tactical plans.

I would have said the recent 650D announcement and other rumours would have made it more likely. The APS-H sensor has proven itself at high mps which means that the rumoured non 1 series high mps might well be APS-H as a high mps ff would be more expensive and take the sales away from the 1DX (which isn't going to happen)

A 'inferior' APS-H sensored, small bodied, cheaper but high mps body would slot in nicely between the 5DIII and the 1DX.

I think it is APS-C which will come under pressure as the 'budget' sector puts in APS-C sensors - then the $500 handy cams would start giving images as good as the entry level DSLRs - meaning soccer mums and uncle joes would have no reason to buy DSLRs - in which case the volume entry level collapses taking with it the upgraders as well, just leaving the enthusiasts and a few pros

 

[unfocused]

Ha! Distant star you are right. Darn autocorrect, typing too fast and late night got to me.

 

[briansquibb]

.
Daft is actually quite fun, Brian. You should give it a go!

Daft though I be, I am rarely wrong.

If you see an APS-H in any Canon camera in the next few years, let me know. I'll come over and treat you to a nice tea biscuit and a few orange slices (California oranges!).

.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.

That has never been stated by Canon - in fact there are hints that the APS-H sized sensor will be used in video.

It is daft to make statements like that unless you have inside info on Canon's technical tactical plans.

I would have said the recent 650D announcement and other rumours would have made it more likely. The APS-H sensor has proven itself at high mps which means that the rumoured non 1 series high mps might well be APS-H as a high mps ff would be more expensive and take the sales away from the 1DX (which isn't going to happen)

A 'inferior' APS-H sensored, small bodied, cheaper but high mps body would slot in nicely between the 5DIII and the 1DX.

I think it is APS-C which will come under pressure as the 'budget' sector puts in APS-C sensors - then the $500 handy cams would start giving images as good as the entry level DSLRs - meaning soccer mums and uncle joes would have no reason to buy DSLRs - in which case the volume entry level collapses taking with it the upgraders as well, just leaving the enthusiasts and a few pros

It is distinctly possible you are correct that the APS-H wont appear in a Canon still camera. However it isn't a fact yet so it is probably unwise to state it as such.

PS I give lessons in daftness

 

[cycomachead]

5 or 7 AEB bracketing would sure be nice.. considering what else they are doing it should be a simple addition. i hope they dont leave that only to the 5dmkIII and above

Amen. 5 and 7 AEB is one of the most useable day-to-day improvements I have enjoyed with the 5D Mark III. With the 7D, I need to take 3, then go into menu, shift it all, and take 3 more. With the 5D Mark III, I can lay a -1 to +1 range on thirds. Should not require any technology changes - just firmware.

Agreed. 1D bodies have done this forever.... It took me all of two minutes from the first time I used a 1D series to miss this feature in every camera. To me, at least, specifying the step interval is more intuitive than seeing the overall range, but Canon could easily modify the current Q menu to makes things simple and provide good visual feedback.

 

[Marsu42]

I would imagine that Canon put in the size of ROM chip to suit the max. burst rate that best suit the output of the camera's firmware program.

From the Canon firmware sourcecode:

/* burst limit, consult marketing before changing */
/* note: hardware limit on the 7d is 30 */
/* obfuscate in code to hinder changes by user */
#define MAXIMUM_BURST_DUMB_USER_KLUDGE 26

 

[ruuneos]

Sounds SWEET!

 

[Aglet]

Pretty cool new bag of tricks for just firmware, glad to see it. Maybe that'll help improve my less than enthusiastic enjoyment of my 7D.

I just hope that, as part of the boot sequence and every few minutes, they've enabled an automatic data-channel matching adjustment to reduce the low iso banding that often plagues some bodies.

 

[kdsand]

To me this presents two possibilities:
1) 7D owners are getting antsy so Canon is stalling until 7DII is ready as others have stated.
2) Some one else could potentially unlock or improve these features (such as magic lantern) which would at best embarrass Canon.


One thing I am certain of is there will be a definite clear cut 7D successor. The 7D occupies the highest end crop sensor slot and there are lot of 7D owners waiting & wanting to give Canon their $ for a new and improved 7D. Seeing the great t4i features is exciting because the new 7D?? will certainly eclipse any Rebel.

 

[Marsu42]

Seeing the great t4i features is exciting because the new 7D?? will certainly eclipse any Rebel.

I don't see any 7d users longing for a swivel touchscreen, muti-shot still shot noise reduction or live video af from the 650d. What they (and I) for the moist part want is an improved sensor, and it is doubtful if Canon can or wants deliver this.

 

[kdsand]

Seeing the great t4i features is exciting because the new 7D?? will certainly eclipse any Rebel.

I don't see any 7d users longing for a swivel touchscreen, muti-shot still shot noise reduction or live video af from the 650d. What they (and I) for the moist part want is an improved sensor, and it is doubtful if Canon can or wants deliver this.

Regardless of what Canon may or may not want, a new 7D?? will need a new class leading crop sensor.
Much better ISO performance & noticeably improved AF. Much of the rest is just fluff, icing on the cake or a guilded lily.
They need to in order to make the market jump aboard.

Tell you what include the toy camera affects then I'm all over it just like a fly on ____ !

 

[pedro]

So, what will a 7DII be like? Are these hints of a probable change towards FF or aps-h?

7DII would never be FF. wildlife & sports photographers would go crazy

OR: What if the 7DII or 7Dx will be FF with an implemented 1.6 Crop mode? ISOs up to 25600? Wouldn't it make a perfect lower segment FF multiusable baby-1Dx-body? Or would this convert it into a 5Diii killer? Any comments welcome. Cheers, Pedro.

 

[Ew]

A 5d2 killer definitely - unless its priced @2600+ and the 5d2 drops to 1899.