Canon EOS 7D Mark II AF Issues

[dolina]

After talking to CPS I discovered I may have made a mistake. After I received the calibrated body I quickly applied the 1.0.4 update. I believe this messed up any fix they did.

Now the body is back again with one of my long lenses. Hope this finally puts to rest this issue.

 

[tron]

My camera arrived with 1.04 preinstalled.

 

[dolina]

Those with AF issues what's your body's last 6 digits?

Mine is 000482

 

[East Wind Photography]

After talking to CPS I discovered I may have made a mistake. After I received the calibrated body I quickly applied the 1.0.4 update. I believe this messed up any fix they did.

Now the body is back again with one of my long lenses. Hope this finally puts to rest this issue.

Did you wait and install the USA version or did you grab the one from Asia when it was released early? Nearly everyone who installed the Asian fw had some issues with lock ups, losing afma settings, etc.

I installed 1.0.4 USA version and did not have any issues. All of my afma settings were saved and a spot check showed no readjustment was necessary.

One of the things that will really mess up afma is the mirror box coming loose. One would have expected that to have been checked but it could have come loose after it came back. A number of early units appear to many improperly mounted mirror boxes. Once they come loose, the mounts get destroyed and so has to be replaced.

Good luck with the 2nd go around. Hopefully they are picking up the shipping for you.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Just a thought. Could IS interfere with very high shooting speeds?

I was using IS mode 1 (OK I know that IS mode 2 is more relative).

By looking at my 7D2+300+1.4X pictures I found some very sharp, some so so a few (2 to 5) pictures that seem like having blur from movement (shutter at 1/6400) targets at medium to large distance.

Later I switched to mode 3 (but that was after I had removed the teleconverter). I haven't checked these yet...

EDIT: I have checked the 300+1.4X photos: 28 out of 69 are sharp.

It is much more difficult (time consuming to check the 1800+ 7D2+300 photos though...

I thought that at first but I'm convinced it helps by partially stabilizing the mirror flap. I've heard all kinds of stories about which is mode to use where. I rarely use mode 3 unless im shooting birds in flight. I mostly use mode 2 even for sports. The extra stabilization let's me hold focus better on faces at high magnification. Mode 1 is used only for static subjects.

My copy after service by canon is getting me about 95% in focus hit rate. The other 5% is due to motion blur.

I have attached a case of a very bad photo/failure: 100% magnification 1/5000 sec f/4 7D2 + 300mm f 2.8 IS II +14XIII

This is way off. If the afma is correct then this is the kind of thing that happens when the mirror box or AF sensor comes loose. I'm sure you are experienced with afma calibration. I find that with the long teles afma with the spyder cal gets you close. You still need to dial it in on something as far as infinity as you can...like across a lake using a sign or maybe a heron on the far shore. Regardless what the testers say you need to dial it in at the distance you expect to use the lens at. 24x focal length is just marketing bs.

aside from that, this really looks like what I was experiencing when I got mine.

 

[tron]

Since I have successful shots (and unsuccessful ones of course) at more or less the same distance does it mean that the issue is intermittent?

I have also observed that there is higher probability of failure when the bird is moving away in contrast to cases where it is flying in front of me.

 

[tron]

Some other info: AFMA seemed correct for the distance I am interested in. However I noticed that a very distant photo was wrongly focused (it was backfocusing) even with ONE SHOT AF. But this was only for very long distances. I did not have this problem in very long distances with my 5D3 (with 100-400 with or without 1.4XIII).

 

[East Wind Photography]

Some other info: AFMA is correct for the distance I am interested in. However I noticed that a very distant phot was wrongly focused (it was backfocusing) even with ONE SHOT AF. But this was only for very long distances. I did not have this problem in very long distances with my 5D3 (with 100-400 with or without 1.4XIII).

So in general I would say that it still does not have the proper AFMA if very long distances are back focused. I would make note of the setting where it is now and then try to get the long distance back focus corrected. That should dial it in even better. The AF tracking cannot operate properly unless the AFMA is set precisely. The camera would otherwise be trying to AF on a consistently out of focus image and since AF always operates with the aperture wide open, you also dont get the benefit of depth of field.

I am a bit concerned that it is having trouble tracking moving objects, either toward or away. I tried to compensate using mode 6 and elevating the tracking sensitivity. That didn't seem to help in my early case. My camera as it is now locks on VERY well for objects flying in or flying away.

I went back and found my comments I sent to Canon when I had mine repaired:

"I am getting about 85% to 90% out of focus images for anything that this moving toward or away from the camera in servo mode. For static subjects the success rate is slightly higher but still not what I expect. This is the opposite of the 5DIII where I get 85%-90% success rate and with the 1DX that is even higher, closer to 95%.

Issues I notice: Poor AF servo performance, failure to consistently lock AF on moving objects, loss of lock after AF acquired, invalid AF lock in servo mode and failure through the series, failure to lock on closest objects (hunting) in Zone or Full AF mode, often locks on foreground or background or on areas not covered by an active AF point, CONSISTENT soft images requiring extensive sharpening in post processing even when using live view focus or manual focus. I also suspect that AFMA may either drift or is not being honored in some cases. I have experienced a condition where one day AFMA is best at Zero and then several days later I have to set AFMA to +6. Before each shoot I need to verify AFMA and sure enough the setting requires major changes, as if something is loose or moving..or current setting not being honored."

I just put this out there so you can make your determination if yours is experiencing similar issues I was having. My camera came back in 3 days perfectly repaired and AF performing slightly better than my 5D3.

 

[tron]

East Wind Photography your comments are valuable.

I will study them line by line (back at home) since I am not sure that everything applies to me 100%
and I do not want to report more problems that I really have.

However the behaviour when the subject is moving closer or away from the camera is very much alike
(and to tell the truth more than enough to declare a problem even if everything else is OK).

Today newer (time limited) tests verified that the success ration is adequate with subjects moving in front of the camera and not satisfactory with subjects moving closer or away.

Zone mode was used. The tracking case is irrelevant as well as the IS mode (including off).

Finally for the very long distance backfocus (2 shots) I found out I was using AF Servo and
(only in these two cases) spot AF to aim the bird (which I did as reported by DPP 4.2.10.

So not using ONE SHOT AF I cannot be sure it is a reliable method although both first and subsequent shots were at focus priority. This will be subject to additional checking (how about the moon ?) but I guess in advance that I will not find backfocus. Checking is better than guessing of course.

I have to make tests of 7D2 with the 100-400 and of 5D3 with 300 (+1.4X) but it will take some time.

Thanks again for your help. I wil let you know...

 

[ksgal]

I get out of focus images in Zone mode as well. Single point or expanded 4 point seems to nail the shot. I think zone may need to be used with a very specific set of cases (that canon may use in their testing when you send it in) and then it may work better, but I've given up on using zone and AI Servo together - at least for now.

 

[East Wind Photography]

East Wind Photography your comments are valuable.

I will study them line by line (back at home) since I am not sure that everything applies to me 100%
and I do not want to report more problems that I really have.

However the behaviour when the subject is moving closer or away from the camera is very much alike
(and to tell the truth more than enough to declare a problem even if everything else is OK).

Today newer (time limited) tests verified that the success ration is adequate with subjects moving in front of the camera and not satisfactory with subjects moving closer or away.

Zone mode was used. The tracking case is irrelevant as well as the IS mode (including off).

Finally for the very long distance backfocus (2 shots) I found out I was using AF Servo and
(only in these two cases) spot AF to aim the bird (which I did as reported by DPP 4.2.10.

So not using ONE SHOT AF I cannot be sure it is a reliable method although both first and subsequent shots were at focus priority. This will be subject to additional checking (how about the moon ?) but I guess in advance that I will not find backfocus. Checking is better than guessing of course.

I have to make tests of 7D2 with the 100-400 and of 5D3 with 300 (+1.4X) but it will take some time.

Thanks again for your help. I wil let you know...

Note that in servo AF spot focus mode should generally not be used unless the subject is pretty still. This applies to both the 7d2 and the 5d3. For the fastest AF use only single point and turn off anti-flicker and iTR. However I've used both for indoor soccer games and can't say that it affected my hit rate in that scenario.

Be mindful that using the moon to afma can be frustrating. Atmospheric conditions can mess up your tests. Same applies for terrestrial heat waves. I try to check it on Eagles or other critters up in trees that are fairly static. Street signs work well or billboards. They are usually high enough off the ground to minimize the effect.

Zone AF per canons manuals state that it will focus on the closest object in the zone pattern. I had a heck of a time at first..nothing would lock except the backgrounds. That's been fixed too. Works just like the 5d3 now.

 

[East Wind Photography]

I get out of focus images in Zone mode as well. Single point or expanded 4 point seems to nail the shot. I think zone may need to be used with a very specific set of cases (that canon may use in their testing when you send it in) and then it may work better, but I've given up on using zone and AI Servo together - at least for now.

It should lock on the closest item in the zone pattern. There are some conditions where the 5d3 and 7d2 have issues and that's when the background is very bright and the subject is very dark. As in tracking a cormorant across a sunlit tree line. It seems the brighter background overpowers the AF system a bit and can't get a lot. I pretty much just now use single point AF for almost everything and other modes for specialty cases wheni need all AF points or need zone to ensure I get a lock...such as shooting hummingbirds from a remote location.

 

[tron]

I decided to keep my 7D2. Tests with 100-400 II seemed 80-90% successful in Servo mode. Also almost if not all tests with 300 were OK in cases where bird was passing in front of me. I loaded the first set of photos in DPP and I saw that in many cases the AF points were not pointing at the bird. So in cases where the bird was moving away there is a reason for softness. I will continue to make tests but I believe that there is a possibility for user error although the AF system seemed to follow the bird successfully. Most of yesterday's experiments were made with test case 5.

 

[tron]

Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.

Any opinions, facts, observations on that?

 

[East Wind Photography]

Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.

Any opinions, facts, observations on that?

I set AF-on for center point and the * AE lock button to AF-on center spot. By using either button I can quickly go to regular AF mode or spot AF mode when I need to target a smaller subject.

For birds in flight and sports, back button AF is essential. For servo to work properly you need target the subject maybe a second before you shoot so AF can predict where it needs to be during the shutter fire.

Another benefit of back button AF only is that it's easier to manual focus when you need to. Just take your finger off the button.

I also set the front dof button to switch between servo and one shot and between that and the back buttons I can cover most everything. I wish the 7d2 would let you program a button for single shot silent to high speed drive mode. I guess I need to get a 1dx for that function.

 

[tron]

Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.

Any opinions, facts, observations on that?

I set AF-on for center point and the * AE lock button to AF-on center spot. By using either button I can quickly go to regular AF mode or spot AF mode when I need to target a smaller subject.

For birds in flight and sports, back button AF is essential. For servo to work properly you need target the subject maybe a second before you shoot so AF can predict where it needs to be during the shutter fire.

Another benefit of back button AF only is that it's easier to manual focus when you need to. Just take your finger off the button.

I also set the front dof button to switch between servo and one shot and between that and the back buttons I can cover most everything. I wish the 7d2 would let you program a button for single shot silent to high speed drive mode. I guess I need to get a 1dx for that function.

Thanks. I will make some BBF experiments to compare results but I have used EOS cameras the classical way for many years and I will tend to think the other way. It is worth a try though (especially experimenting with the birds moving away...)

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi tron.
Give yourself a chance on BBF, it will take a while to get used to so don't quit after a short test, also don't swap just before any important event, you will forget to focus some times until you retire your brain to BBF! ;D

Cheers, Graham.

Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.

Any opinions, facts, observations on that?

I set AF-on for center point and the * AE lock button to AF-on center spot. By using either button I can quickly go to regular AF mode or spot AF mode when I need to target a smaller subject.

For birds in flight and sports, back button AF is essential. For servo to work properly you need target the subject maybe a second before you shoot so AF can predict where it needs to be during the shutter fire.

Another benefit of back button AF only is that it's easier to manual focus when you need to. Just take your finger off the button.

I also set the front dof button to switch between servo and one shot and between that and the back buttons I can cover most everything. I wish the 7d2 would let you program a button for single shot silent to high speed drive mode. I guess I need to get a 1dx for that function.

Thanks. I will make some BBF experiments to compare results but I have used EOS cameras the classical way for many years and I will tend to think the other way. It is worth a try though (especially experimenting with the birds moving away...)

 

[East Wind Photography]

Yeah thats a good point. It's a habit you need to build to use it quickly and effectively.

Part of the setting is to enable BBF (default for AF-ON) and if you want to go right to spot focus you can set the * button for that. However you also need to set the shutter button for metering lock only. It's separate from the AF-ON setting but it is required to suspend AF in mid pan or to instantly disable AF so you can manual focus while still having metering and IS on and active.

Hi tron.
Give yourself a chance on BBF, it will take a while to get used to so don't quit after a short test, also don't swap just before any important event, you will forget to focus some times until you retire your brain to BBF! ;D

Cheers, Graham.

Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.

Any opinions, facts, observations on that?

I set AF-on for center point and the * AE lock button to AF-on center spot. By using either button I can quickly go to regular AF mode or spot AF mode when I need to target a smaller subject.

For birds in flight and sports, back button AF is essential. For servo to work properly you need target the subject maybe a second before you shoot so AF can predict where it needs to be during the shutter fire.

Another benefit of back button AF only is that it's easier to manual focus when you need to. Just take your finger off the button.

I also set the front dof button to switch between servo and one shot and between that and the back buttons I can cover most everything. I wish the 7d2 would let you program a button for single shot silent to high speed drive mode. I guess I need to get a 1dx for that function.

Thanks. I will make some BBF experiments to compare results but I have used EOS cameras the classical way for many years and I will tend to think the other way. It is worth a try though (especially experimenting with the birds moving away...)

 

[monsieur_elegante]

Hi everyone, I'm hoping to get your opinions on this... I had been looking forward to getting the 7D Mark II ever since it was announced, and 2 months ago I finally bought it after selling my t3i. At first I was amazed by everything it has to offer (65 point AF, 10 fps, etc), but soon I got the feeling that something was off with the AF. I felt that it must be because I'm still not adept at using such a sophisticated AF system, and thought, "come on, what are the odds that I got a defective copy?"

But even after using it for 2 months, I couldn't shake the feeling that something was wrong. Did some googling and came to this forum. It's not like I've never gotten shots that are tack sharp--it's just that more often than not, the picture looks fuzzy/mushy/soft even when there's no obvious reason for it. I'm still not sure if it's a) a skill issue--just need to learn the camera better; b) a real problem with the camera; or c) a mixture of both. Would love to hear your opinions.

Please take a look at these pictures -- the first (northern mocking bird) is a picture taken with my Canon t3i at ISO 200, 250mm, f/5.6, 1/400s using the Canon EFS 55-250mm IS.

https://flic.kr/p/veK7ir

The second picture (tree swallow) is taken with my 7D Mark II with the exact same lens at similar settings; ISO 250, 250mm, f/5.6, but much higher shutter speed, 1/1000s.

https://flic.kr/p/veK6wM

The 7DmII tree swallow was taken under brighter lighting condition (sunny morning) than the t3i mocking bird (cloudy morning) and at a higher shutter speed -- doesn't make much sense that the mocking bird is still so much sharper (note details in the feathers).

But, as I said, there are also times when I end up with shots that make me think, "nah, there's nothing wrong with this camera," like these two pictures, both taken with the same lens (although stopped down significantly and at close to minimum focusing distance, so not exactly a fair comparison with the t3i mocking bird picture).

https://flic.kr/p/veMRB6
https://flic.kr/p/uWQNyN

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions.

 

[tron]

Yeah thats a good point. It's a habit you need to build to use it quickly and effectively.

Part of the setting is to enable BBF (default for AF-ON) and if you want to go right to spot focus you can set the * button for that. However you also need to set the shutter button for metering lock only. It's separate from the AF-ON setting but it is required to suspend AF in mid pan or to instantly disable AF so you can manual focus while still having metering and IS on and active.

Hi tron.
Give yourself a chance on BBF, it will take a while to get used to so don't quit after a short test, also don't swap just before any important event, you will forget to focus some times until you retire your brain to BBF! ;D

Cheers, Graham.

Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.

Any opinions, facts, observations on that?

I set AF-on for center point and the * AE lock button to AF-on center spot. By using either button I can quickly go to regular AF mode or spot AF mode when I need to target a smaller subject.

For birds in flight and sports, back button AF is essential. For servo to work properly you need target the subject maybe a second before you shoot so AF can predict where it needs to be during the shutter fire.

Another benefit of back button AF only is that it's easier to manual focus when you need to. Just take your finger off the button.

I also set the front dof button to switch between servo and one shot and between that and the back buttons I can cover most everything. I wish the 7d2 would let you program a button for single shot silent to high speed drive mode. I guess I need to get a 1dx for that function.

Thanks. I will make some BBF experiments to compare results but I have used EOS cameras the classical way for many years and I will tend to think the other way. It is worth a try though (especially experimenting with the birds moving away...)

Thank's both of you for sound advise and encouragement. Even without BBF the 3rd attempt was satisfactory (OK that was with 100-400 and had higher ISO due to 5.6 but anyway there were many ultra sharp 300 2.8 pictures).

Up to now BBF is perfect for shooting with tripod static distant scenes ( > 1 Km) where I do not wish the lens to try to focus every time. The temple is rumored to stay in place ;D ... and the moon rising behind it will not fly away

So for this case this is my favorite method (in conjunction with focus preset)

Two interesting articles I have found are:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9174241280/configuring-your-5d-mark-iii-af-for-fast-action

http://mikeatkinson.net/Tutorial-9-Photographing-Birds-in-Flight.htm