Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]

[AlanF]

You don't get extra range by cropping a full frame sensor: all you do is to narrow the field of view without increasing the resolution or effective focal length. The reason why the 7D has an apparent better effective focal length is because its APSC sensor has a higher density of pixels that are smaller and closer together than the same number of megapixels on a full frame. The rumoured high pixel FF would be roughly equivalent to the 7D.

 

[AprilForever]

You don't get extra range by cropping a full frame sensor: all you do is to narrow the field of view without increasing the resolution or effective focal length. The reason why the 7D has an apparent better effective focal length is because its APSC sensor has a higher density of pixels that are smaller and closer together than the same number of megapixels on a full frame. The rumoured high pixel FF would be roughly equivalent to the 7D.

How about lighter weight and way better image corners? APS-C is not just the lame man's version of FF. They are tow different tools. If Canon wanted, they caould really make the 7D mk II killer. THis may come with a killer price tag, though...

 

[chadders]

Just back from two weeks vacation and catching up with all the rumours.

It's comforting to see that nothing changes much here. Yet more complaints, moans and hysteria about another camera that hasn't seen the light of day yet (if it ever does). There isn't even a credible spec yet and already we have the usual suspects complaining that it's under-specified, or it's not exactly what they want.

You guys must all have crystal balls. Why don't you take a day off from griping and go take some photographs?

That's funny!

Welcome home.

Thanks ;D

 

[coreyhkh]

I hope canon makes the next version good, because there is not many option right now for sport or wildlife guys that need extra reach. The 1dmk4 is good but old and outdated and the 1DX is overpriced and has the wrong sensor.

 

[marekjoz]

I hope canon makes the next version good, because there is not many option right now for sport or wildlife guys that need extra reach. The 1dmk4 is good but old and outdated and the 1DX is overpriced and has the wrong sensor.

Have you tried Celestron?

 

[verysimplejason]

Just back from two weeks vacation and catching up with all the rumours.

It's comforting to see that nothing changes much here. Yet more complaints, moans and hysteria about another camera that hasn't seen the light of day yet (if it ever does). There isn't even a credible spec yet and already we have the usual suspects complaining that it's under-specified, or it's not exactly what they want.

You guys must all have crystal balls. Why don't you take a day off from griping and go take some photographs?

That's funny!

That's what I'm doing when I'm out of the office... taking photographs. When inside the office, what must I do? Read more rumors!

Welcome home.

 

[Ellen Schmidtee]

You don't get extra range by cropping a full frame sensor: all you do is to narrow the field of view without increasing the resolution or effective focal length. The reason why the 7D has an apparent better effective focal length is because its APSC sensor has a higher density of pixels that are smaller and closer together than the same number of megapixels on a full frame. The rumoured high pixel FF would be roughly equivalent to the 7D.

How about lighter weight and way better image corners? APS-C is not just the lame man's version of FF. They are tow different tools. If Canon wanted, they caould really make the 7D mk II killer. THis may come with a killer price tag, though...

You'd get better image corner by cropping an FF photo. Look at the reviews of the 24mm f/1.4 USM L at photozone - it has less vignetting on APS-C (1.1 stops vs 3.3 when wide open) because the corners (where the worst of the vignetting occurs) are cropped.

Then again, EF-S lenses with focal length X might have less vignetting at 26.8mm (= half the 7D sensor's diagonal) from the sensor's center than EF lenses with focal length X/1.6, but I've never heard of such testing being done.

 

[DB]

Every year Canon launches a new Rebel body, so 2013 we can expect a 700D. Could Canon conceivably launch a 70D + a 700D at the same time or even in the same year? Maybe they could, but I sincerely doubt it. It would be like BMW launching a new 5-series as well as a new model the 50-series in the same year! Even the marketers are not that dumb

edit: it would be like Coca-Cola changing Coke Zero, and then launching Coke Hero (a new product) around the same time

You seem to disagree with yourself.

If Canon launches new Rebel every year
AND
sometimes (but not every year) Canon launches a higher level body
THEN
in the year when the higher body is launched there is also launched a new Rebel
SO
it's in contradiction to your doubt
THAT
they shouldn't be launched in the same year

SO
not Rebel every year
OR
no higher level body at all
OR
there must be some years (higher body launches), when they are launched in the same year

Prooved

As someone who is not a native English speaker (I understand you're Polish), you did not understand my simple logic, so I'll make it even plainer:

(1) Each year Canon typically launches a new Rebel body - so in 2013 we may expect a new 700D (T5i)

(2) Canon DO NOT typically launch a 40D, 50D, 60D......70D (xxD model) each & every year - so once cannot say for sure that one is definitely expected in 2013

(3) It just so happens that 2013 is a year that a replacement for the 60D would normally occur, but to call it a 70D and simultaneously launch a 700D would be too confusing (coincidence that model numbers may conflict)


What I said, in clear concise English was it would be a marketing disaster to attempt to launch 2 new products the same year with nearly identical (except for one zero) model numbers.

...btw P-R-O-V-E-D is how you spell 'proved'...and you actually proved nothing other than trying to be clever...and you did not do a good job at that.

This is a forum for Canon aficionados who are seriously interested in what new products are coming down the line and what the model designation that Canon deem fit to call them e.g. the new 6D is a good example. The 7D is also a model that is due for an upgrade (7D will be 4 years old in 2013) and there are rumours that the 7D2 and a 70D might be merged to create a new King of the Crop Sensors -> this further validates my argument that Canon may be cautious about releasing a new product called the '70D' for the reasons mentioned above. What really matters is what additional features this new flagship crop body will have.

 

[marekjoz]

As someone who is not a native English speaker (I understand you're Polish), you did not understand my simple logic, so I'll make it even plainer:

(1) Each year Canon typically launches a new Rebel body - so in 2013 we may expect a new 700D (T5i)

(2) Canon DO NOT typically launch a 40D, 50D, 60D......70D (xxD model) each & every year - so once cannot say for sure that one is definitely expected in 2013

(3) It just so happens that 2013 is a year that a replacement for the 60D would normally occur, but to call it a 70D and simultaneously launch a 700D would be too confusing (coincidence that model numbers may conflict)


What I said, in clear concise English was it would be a marketing disaster to attempt to launch 2 new products the same year with nearly identical (except for one zero) model numbers.

...btw P-R-O-V-E-D is how you spell 'proved'...and you actually proved nothing other than trying to be clever...and you did not do a good job at that.

This is a forum for Canon aficionados who are seriously interested in what new products are coming down the line and what the model designation that Canon deem fit to call them e.g. the new 6D is a good example. The 7D is also a model that is due for an upgrade (7D will be 4 years old in 2013) and there are rumours that the 7D2 and a 70D might be merged to create a new King of the Crop Sensors -> this further validates my argument that Canon may be cautious about releasing a new product called the '70D' for the reasons mentioned above. What really matters is what additional features this new flagship crop body will have.

Ok, If this is what you meant, then of course you're right, but it was not clear for me - maybe because I'm not native. I agree, that from this point of view it would be a disaster to launch 7d2, 70d and 700d at the same time.

Proved (by you)

 

[Bosman]

The next 7D whatever it is named will be in my opinion what the 5DM3 was to the 5DM2 is. The 5DM3 setttled all the complaints of its previous 2 versions of the 5d, namely focus system. In the case of the next 7d or whatever it is called, i believe the improvement will definitely be the sensor and the noise as overall the 7d has no competition in its form factor, again my opinion. Another way to say it is the 7d is almost perfect for what it is. I am not totally certain i will buy one since i recently dropped my 1DM3 leaving a good scuff on it meaning i won't be able to sell it without giving it away. My 1DM3 is still very powerful and no slouch and for weddings it is very capable but then again I'd like a little more flexibility when shooting sports in early spring and in the fall since mornings are much darker. The 5DM3 has been my go to for my sports this year yet it laggs just a little more than ideal for sports. I have used the 5DM3 successfully this whole season but a great lowlight sports camera before going nuts on a 1Dx purchase like a new 7D would really fill in that gap. Sad to say i will have a 5D and a 1DM3 probably collecting dust but the value they are to me are beyond what their current and future street values will be. In addition i would get a lot of value out of a 7D2 for weddings but it would affect the use of my 24LII more than i may like since the 1DM3 has it glued on when i shoot weddings and it only increases the focal length by 1.3 making it 31mm. I shoot the 5dm3 with the 50L on most the time too so 31mm and 50mm for most of my wedding work and the 70-200L II when it is needed. The 7D2 would force me to use two very similar focal lengths and the 6D is kinda iffy since the focus system is a joke. I have a lot to weigh my mind on. I don't want to buy two cameras but a better low light sports camera and an additional FF for weddings would be ideal but the budget is tight for a 2 camera purchase. This is what marketers and designers of products count on, the force you to choose one or the other or both based on their specs. How many have pined over which mac to get or camera that had to give up something to buy one or the other? Its constant. Nikon does a better job of giving you most everything you could need for any kind of photography prior to the D800 since they dont skimp on metering or focus systems. When it comes down to it FPS and Focus systems are the two dominant factors for me, next up is hi-iso performance. Buffer used to be one of the top problems but thankfully CF card speeds have surpassed cameras until the D800. Keep things around 20mp and you have no buffer issues. The new Cf standard CFast 2 or whatever will again resolve the high mp buffer issues. Wow, i didnt know i had so much to share but these factors and thoughts are what churn in my brain.

 

[sanj]

Every year Canon launches a new Rebel body, so 2013 we can expect a 700D. Could Canon conceivably launch a 70D + a 700D at the same time or even in the same year? Maybe they could, but I sincerely doubt it. It would be like BMW launching a new 5-series as well as a new model the 50-series in the same year! Even the marketers are not that dumb

edit: it would be like Coca-Cola changing Coke Zero, and then launching Coke Hero (a new product) around the same time

You seem to disagree with yourself.

If Canon launches new Rebel every year
AND
sometimes (but not every year) Canon launches a higher level body
THEN
in the year when the higher body is launched there is also launched a new Rebel
SO
it's in contradiction to your doubt
THAT
they shouldn't be launched in the same year

SO
not Rebel every year
OR
no higher level body at all
OR
there must be some years (higher body launches), when they are launched in the same year

Prooved

As someone who is not a native English speaker (I understand you're Polish), you did not understand my simple logic, so I'll make it even plainer:

(1) Each year Canon typically launches a new Rebel body - so in 2013 we may expect a new 700D (T5i)

(2) Canon DO NOT typically launch a 40D, 50D, 60D......70D (xxD model) each & every year - so once cannot say for sure that one is definitely expected in 2013

(3) It just so happens that 2013 is a year that a replacement for the 60D would normally occur, but to call it a 70D and simultaneously launch a 700D would be too confusing (coincidence that model numbers may conflict)


What I said, in clear concise English was it would be a marketing disaster to attempt to launch 2 new products the same year with nearly identical (except for one zero) model numbers.

...btw P-R-O-V-E-D is how you spell 'proved'...and you actually proved nothing other than trying to be clever...and you did not do a good job at that.

This is a forum for Canon aficionados who are seriously interested in what new products are coming down the line and what the model designation that Canon deem fit to call them e.g. the new 6D is a good example. The 7D is also a model that is due for an upgrade (7D will be 4 years old in 2013) and there are rumours that the 7D2 and a 70D might be merged to create a new King of the Crop Sensors -> this further validates my argument that Canon may be cautious about releasing a new product called the '70D' for the reasons mentioned above. What really matters is what additional features this new flagship crop body will have.

Well said!

 

[DB]

@ Bosman, you sir are an optimist amongst sceptics : I fully agree with you that the current 7D has filled an important niche in the market, particularly as a 2nd-body DSLR, but I (anyway) atrribute that to the way in which Canon developed the 7D by asking professional photographers (the infamous 5,000 questionnaires) what it was they wanted in a crop-sensor camera, resulting in a 'poor man's 1DIV' (apologies for such a drab analogy), yet your optimism foresees a kind and benevolent Canon Inc. making a new 7D2 the 'poor man's 1DX'. I just hope that you are indeed correct and that Canon produce a 7D2 with unique AF + Speed, whilst improving DR + Noise, with the added constraint of possibly even smaller pixels.

Apparently Sony have improved the tech in their new Alpha-99, which uses the same 24.3MP Exmor sensor as the latest Nikon offerings, but their 'shallower' pixel wells allow more light to hit the photo receptors which are also a bit larger ( I think of this improvement in micro architecture design as something akin to what Intel achieved with the Sandybridge & Ivybridge chips i.e. 32nm and 22nm chip thickness as opposed to older 45nm+ chips). Anyway, if Canon can produce a 7D2 that shoots 10fps and improves ISO by at least 1 stop, and has an AF system at least as good as the classic 7D, then I'm sure it will sell in large quantities.

 

[Richard8971]

The 7D is one of Canon's best selling cameras and for good reason. I love my 7D and (for now) I cannot imagine another camera filling my needs (for the price).

It is fast and responsive. The images are super, even at higher ISO's. I don't try and compare it to full frame as they have a huge advantage over crop sensors for image quality and color processing. However for "brute" speed and great image quality, you cannot beat the 7D. I took these images yesterday at ISO 640/800 respectively. 'Target on' AF and "right now" shutter response! Yes the 5D3 is a great camera but at 2 grand more over the 7D? You can keep it.

BIF (birds in flight) can test the limits of ANY camera. The 7D? It passes with "flying" colors, no pun intended!

I love the 7D and I can only imagine that Canon is planning one hell of a replacement body for it!

D

P.S. CR limts me to 700 pixels wide (max) for uploads. Don't let the image size limitations sway you, the full size photos are aweome!

 

[Jamie Douglas]

Canon 7D has enjoyed one of the longest shelve lifes in the DLSR age and I am sooo glad I waitied out the 50D and bought my 7D in January 2009.

The AF is super quick and if you handle the exposure well then high ISOs are a breeze.

Check out what the AF can manage...

Mid air Puffin - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/h12715cc9#h12715cc9

Incoming Puffin - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/ha3897d3#ha3897d3

Black Bear Cub ISO1250 - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/hac981db#hac981db

I recently upgraded to a Canon 1D Mark IV but kept a firm hold of my 7D which is the perfect backup body.

 

[pakosouthpark]

canon should have an option so you could choose some specs for your camera! like a swivel screen, video capabilities, wifi, GPS.. like a computer you can upgrade some features or leave it as it is..

 

[Bosman]

DB lol an optimist skeptic. Canon has been solving the puzzle pretty good for a while now. The 7D just happens to be the first legit poor mans sports camera. They made a poor mans 1dsm3 in the 5D. Now the 5DM3 is kinda the poor mans 1dx but it doesn't legitimately fill the sports action category so It really is up to another camera to do that right. On the other hand the 1dx isn't really the 5dm3 big brother in my opinion. We still need a studio version 1d something of the 5dm3 and a small version of the 1dx unless Canon is changing its lineup process. These are thoughts on the matter, i claim no superior knowledge. In fact I a dumb sometimes lol.

Pakosouthpark swivel screens aren't upgrades for the heavy shooters they compromise weather proofing and increase repair needs as more things can break. I personally don't care about wifi or GPS but believe it should be in all cameras however the 6d has it because the body is plastic. Magnesium alloy has been the body chassis for the better canon bodies for quite some time now and i can vouch for its durability on my 1d series camera hitting concrete and not missing a beat. I do believe we have had specialized plastics for some time that rival and surpass metal, it only a matter of time before we see some manufacturer switching out their foundries for plastics and making them fully plastic. Lenses are being made now that are plastic like the 100 F2.8 macro for example. You could drop it and you wouldn't have a permanent dent rendering a locked focus, it potentially could be able to take a drop with a bounce instead. Maybe the 6D is the beginning of a new frontier of body making processes because it is bordering on pro more than any xxd or xxxd camera yet. Maybe carbon fiber is an option for internals to make the 1d series much lighter. I believe a camera body design revolution needs to happen in the near future but it may take a company like Sony to push that envelope of innovation to get Canon off its comfortable A**. Lightness of a pro product has yet to be dealt with. Each 1D they have claimed how they are lighter than the previous but that was more thanks to their battery technology and size. They have yet to really solve that. It will have to really be sold as more durable to the 1 series owners for it to launch out into the wild.
Ok, i got on a tanget a bit there.

 

[ZoeEnPhos]

Gotta keep the two processors. It's the secret to the focusing performance...

Really? How do the dual Digic 4 processors in the 7D contribute to focusing performance? Or is the secret that Canon is lying when they state, "The EOS 7D has a 19-point autofocus system, all of which are cross-type points, that includes a separate AF processor to help to provide fast, reliable and accurate autofocus for photographers in all shooting situations."

Hello again Neuroanatomist!

Big THANK for your excellent specs/facts about the 7D!
Appreciated much!
Wishing you a very good day sir!
/C

 

[RLPhoto]

-10fps

-20MP

-Useable ISO 100-6400- Push 12,800

-Magnesium Body

-1,799$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

[jrista]

@ Bosman, you sir are an optimist amongst sceptics : I fully agree with you that the current 7D has filled an important niche in the market, particularly as a 2nd-body DSLR, but I (anyway) atrribute that to the way in which Canon developed the 7D by asking professional photographers (the infamous 5,000 questionnaires) what it was they wanted in a crop-sensor camera, resulting in a 'poor man's 1DIV' (apologies for such a drab analogy), yet your optimism foresees a kind and benevolent Canon Inc. making a new 7D2 the 'poor man's 1DX'. I just hope that you are indeed correct and that Canon produce a 7D2 with unique AF + Speed, whilst improving DR + Noise, with the added constraint of possibly even smaller pixels.

Canon sensors have yet to push past the 50% Q.E. barrier, on any sensor. Sony sensors, and a few Nikon sensors, have pushed past the 50% Q.E. barrier, and Exmor is pushing 60%. Improvements to Q.E. can improve photon noise, even with a smaller pixel.

Apparently Sony have improved the tech in their new Alpha-99, which uses the same 24.3MP Exmor sensor as the latest Nikon offerings, but their 'shallower' pixel wells allow more light to hit the photo receptors which are also a bit larger ( I think of this improvement in micro architecture design as something akin to what Intel achieved with the Sandybridge & Ivybridge chips i.e. 32nm and 22nm chip thickness as opposed to older 45nm+ chips). Anyway, if Canon can produce a 7D2 that shoots 10fps and improves ISO by at least 1 stop, and has an AF system at least as good as the classic 7D, then I'm sure it will sell in large quantities.

Same thing here...your talking about Q.E., or quantum efficiency. There is a certain amount of light lost at each pixel, due to a variety of things. Some light is lost when it reflects off of the filter stack just above the sensor. I wouldn't say the IR cut/low pass filter stack is a significant source of light loss, but is a key factor. The color filter at each pixel absorbs a fairly significant amount of light...you lose at least 15-20% here, if not more...depends on how strong the filter is. Photons that strike parts of the sensor die that are not the photodiode may reflect out of the pixel well, or convert to heat. Not every photon actually converts to an electron. By minimizing these losses, you improve the quantum efficiency of your sensor.

Assuming you had a FF camera with 30% Q.E., and an APS-C camera with half the pixel area and 60% Q.E., there is no reason the APS-C camera couldn't perform just as well as the FF camera from a noise standpoint. Technically speaking, you could capture the same number of photons per pixel despite the fact that one pixel is 1.4x smaller. Canon sensors have around 45% Q.E. today, so unless they can improve Q.E. to around 90% for the next 7D, it wouldn't necessarily perform as well as a 1D X...but neither would it perform 2x as bad. An APS-C sensor with 60-65% Q.E. could perform VERY well on the noise front. As for DR, that is a whole other beast, as it is limited on the shadow end by electronic noise in the sensor (i.e. noise caused by dark current and differences in response from pixel to pixel, etc.) Canon would need to implement some fairly radical fabrication improvements (which I believe they are indeed capable of), and possibly a shift to some kind of CP-ADC with digital noise reduction (vs. analog noise reduction).

 

[wickidwombat]

-10fps

-20MP

-Useable ISO 100-6400- Push 12,800

-Magnesium Body

-1,799$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

if its ISO Level was similar to the 5Dmk2 from ISO 100 to 6400 without the horrid low iso noise and had improved quality of the noise as in the 5Dmk3 so it could handle noise reduction better
then that would be a pretty sweet camera

or even better still 22MP APS-H (relax guys i'm just teasing even though i do want them to make this)