Canon EOS 7D Mark III Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

The main issue is whether it will have a low pass filter or not. The 7D line is analogous to Nikon's D500 and that Nikon has been moving sports and wildlife photographers over as the lack of filter makes it able to render far more detail than the 7D2. The 7D3 is going to have to either have no filter or have the filter but break new ground in APS-C resolution (think 30mp+ to overcome the filter) to stay competitive. With a filter on the current 24mp limit, the Nikon will continue to be the best choice for sports & wildlife.

The time for for 4K was in the 6DII which is more likely to be used as a wedding camera

A) The 6D2 only has one card slot; it's not a wedding camera.
B) The "time for 4K" was every camera in the last 18 months or so, but looking forward, it makes most sense for the 90D and 7D3 to get it over the 6D2 which is primarily set as a stills upgrade and a manufacturer's replacement of the 5D3.

Not a wedding camera yet Canon's own site has sample images from the 6D II of brides in their gowns.......interesting.

There are plenty of people taking pictures at weddings who are not doing it for the money.

There are plenty of professional wedding photographers who have used cameras not capable of recording images in duplicate. Think 5DII. Think D700. Think decades of film photography.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Since when has matching or exceeding Nikon, or anyone else for that matter, been a priority for Canon? Not bashing or trying to start a war, but if that was a concern they should have made more dramatic changes to the 6D to compete with the upcoming D750 replacement....or for that matter the current D750.

Broadly, you are correct, but the 6D1 sold like gangbusters regardless of any spec shortcomings vs. Nikon's D610 or D750.

I think it's a segment by segment sort of call by Canon corporate. If Canon has data that is showing the D500 + 200-500 is actually stealing market share in this segment, one would logically think Canon might change their plans and bring the 7D3 forward in the pipeline. Again, we have zero data to back that up, but it's one potential reason why a 7D3 might come sooner rather than later.

Another potential reason is, as I believe unfocused pointed out, that the market dynamic of (a) Nikon leaving this 'top APS-C'/birding segment to rot for many years and the (b) strange mid-cycle 7D1 firmware-to-extend-the-lifecycle move might mean that our normal 'crystal ball based on their normal cycle time' retrospective looks might not be so telling. It's possible this was when the 7D3 was always going to come out regardless of the D500.

I still contend this is unexpectedly soon for a 7D3 and this rumor seems suspect at first glance -- but who knows? It may happen.

- A

 

[jolyonralph]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

The main issue is whether it will have a low pass filter or not...Nikon has been moving sports and wildlife photographers over as the lack of filter makes it able to render far more detail than the 7D2.

Seriously? You really think that's a big issue?

I'm not enthusiastic about battling a bunch of moire patterns in bird feathers.

I think it's a big issue. And having taken 50,000+ photos on the 5DSR I've yet to find a single image that has been ruined by moire patterns. I'm sure it *could* happen. But the clear advantages in image resolution outweigh the marginal risks to me.


However, I don't think Canon are brave enough to do a 7D III without the filter just yet because people are scared about this, and I can't see them doing two versions. So I'd suspect it will stay.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

However, I don't think Canon are brave enough to do a 7D III without the filter just yet because people are scared about this, and I can't see them doing two versions. So I'd suspect it will stay.

Also: Canon's investment in DPAF (and how it gives Canon a huge leg up for amateur / enthusiast video work) will make it really hard to offer just an AA free camera.

As much as the 5D2 legacy of being groundbreaking with video in relatively affordable SLRs may be RIP, the notion that every SLR is also a fine tool for video has not and will not go away anytime soon.

- A

 

[Ozarker]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

The main issue is whether it will have a low pass filter or not. The 7D line is analogous to Nikon's D500 and that Nikon has been moving sports and wildlife photographers over as the lack of filter makes it able to render far more detail than the 7D2. The 7D3 is going to have to either have no filter or have the filter but break new ground in APS-C resolution (think 30mp+ to overcome the filter) to stay competitive. With a filter on the current 24mp limit, the Nikon will continue to be the best choice for sports & wildlife.

The time for for 4K was in the 6DII which is more likely to be used as a wedding camera

A) The 6D2 only has one card slot; it's not a wedding camera.
B) The "time for 4K" was every camera in the last 18 months or so, but looking forward, it makes most sense for the 90D and 7D3 to get it over the 6D2 which is primarily set as a stills upgrade and a manufacturer's replacement of the 5D3.

Not a wedding camera yet Canon's own site has sample images from the 6D II of brides in their gowns.......interesting.

There is a photographer around here that uses a 70D for weddings and gets paid. Does lots of weddings and boudoir work. Any camera can be a wedding camera. I don't think Canon says, "We've got to make a wedding camera." I think the conversation revolves around the technology which makes the cameras versatile and useful in most any situation.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

However, I don't think Canon are brave enough to do a 7D III without the filter just yet because people are scared about this, and I can't see them doing two versions. So I'd suspect it will stay.

But I could see them offer two versions.

I still don't get why Canon doesn't offer that additional version of a 7D# with the AA removed for an absurd price, like $2500. Enough stills-only birders/wildlife folks would pay for that, one would think.

- A

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Predicting new bodies based on past refresh cycles is a sure way to be wrong. Canon releases bodies when the technology and market is ready, not by some arbitrary schedule.

Agree, but when's the last time a product line got refreshed faster than it did before? I'm hard pressed to think of when that was.

I don't think any of us are sitting here with a stopwatch expecting our next [insert brand here] refresh in 3, 2, 1... I'm just saying that Canon has bulked up the portfolio and can't just break into a gallop when it feels like it.

except you ignore the impact of the earthquake and tsunami on canon's facilities during the time in which alot of your "delay" of cameras comes into play. Also at the time, canon had to have been upgrading sensor facilities to support the new ADC sensors. that takes time as well.

to be honest, no one, and no chart is going to guess at when canon is ready to release another camera.

Given the newer sensor tech that canon is using, the 7D Mark III needs to come out sooner than later, and a chart doesn't change that fact. that and the 5DSr IMO, are replaced next year as the two remaining cameras with old styled sensors.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

However, I don't think Canon are brave enough to do a 7D III without the filter just yet because people are scared about this, and I can't see them doing two versions. So I'd suspect it will stay.

But I could see them offer two versions.

I still don't get why Canon doesn't offer that additional version of a 7D# with the AA removed for an absurd price, like $2500. Enough stills-only birders/wildlife folks would pay for that, one would think.

- A

why? it's easy enough to get around the AA filter nowadays with smart deconvolution based sharpening.

 

[BillB]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

However, I don't think Canon are brave enough to do a 7D III without the filter just yet because people are scared about this, and I can't see them doing two versions. So I'd suspect it will stay.

Also: Canon's investment in DPAF (and how it gives Canon a huge leg up for amateur / enthusiast video work) will make it really hard to offer just an AA free camera.

As much as the 5D2 legacy of being groundbreaking with video in relatively affordable SLRs may be RIP, the notion that every SLR is also a fine tool for video has not and will not go away anytime soon.

- A

Maybe the question is not whether video will go away, but which video market is the one to exploit. Is it the market that wants 4K, or is it the market for an easy, relatively fool proof 1080 with a tilty-flippy screen with touch focussing? It seems pretty clear to me which market the 6DII is aimed at. Over the last couple of weeks several posters have energetically and repetitively helped us understand that the 6DII does not meet the needs of the 4K market, a point that I would have thought was obvious pretty much from the beginning.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

to be honest, no one, and no chart is going to guess at when canon is ready to release another camera.

100% fair statement. We're just looking at historical tea leaves as a read on the future. It's a decidedly imperfect method.

Given the newer sensor tech that canon is using, the 7D Mark III needs to come out sooner than later, and a chart doesn't change that fact. that and the 5DSr IMO, are replaced next year as the two remaining cameras with old styled sensors.

^^ This is the heart of it to me -- some folks believe they are due a next-gen sensor in their chosen product line. ^^

I can't tell if you are conflating your sense of technology entitlement with Canon's deepest desires, or you have data that says that Canon needs to act or the sky will fall in this segment. I don't say this as a flame, but it kinda sounds like the former. Canon doesn't need to do a damn thing unless they are not being as profitable as they'd planned.

I'm not saying the 7D3 is definitively not happening next year, but I would be stunned it is due to urgency to delivering the market a better sensor. It might just be that the D500 woke up a dormant market and Canon needs a shiny new something in a box to push at that market.

- A

 

[9VIII]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

The 7D2 has already been practically discontinued in Canada.: http://www.photoprice.ca/product/05537/Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II-price.html

I've actually been expecting some 7D3 news for a few weeks now.


More than anything right now I'm still really hoping the 90D gets a 30-40MP sensor, I want 5Ds type resolution, but not the large body size.
Sigma's glass can handle the pixel density.
(And 40MP on a 3:2 aspect ratio sensor lines up almost perfectly with 8K horizontal resolution, so the best quality pictures will always come from a 40MP+ sensor. 8K is probably coming sooner than most people expect, the Japanese will be broadcasting the 2020 Tokyo Olympic games in "Super Hi-Vision" 8K so the display industry will have to ramp up for it, right now they're just finalizing the necessary specs for HDMI 2.1 to support it.)

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim. I am sure you understand that it is important to stay risk aversed and also be responsible and avoid risks of loosing those photos of once in the lifetime event, never repeat again moments being wedding ceremony, etc for so many happy couples out their. Dual redundant card slot is just that: inexpensive insurance.
Therefore I would hazard to call any wedding photographer that consider taking risk shooting such an important events with non-redundant card slot an irresponsible person. Yes, irresponsible. I am sorry, Mr. Neuro, but back in the analogous days of film photography the redundancy was not so easily achievable as nowadays. Therefore I would argue, with all due respect, that your "back in the film day" example was not quite relevant.

The leading photographers and photo professional associations should take the lead and raise the bar in calling on industry to support compulsory dual redundant card standard in professional settings.

The main issue is whether it will have a low pass filter or not. The 7D line is analogous to Nikon's D500 and that Nikon has been moving sports and wildlife photographers over as the lack of filter makes it able to render far more detail than the 7D2. The 7D3 is going to have to either have no filter or have the filter but break new ground in APS-C resolution (think 30mp+ to overcome the filter) to stay competitive. With a filter on the current 24mp limit, the Nikon will continue to be the best choice for sports & wildlife.

The time for for 4K was in the 6DII which is more likely to be used as a wedding camera

A) The 6D2 only has one card slot; it's not a wedding camera.
B) The "time for 4K" was every camera in the last 18 months or so, but looking forward, it makes most sense for the 90D and 7D3 to get it over the 6D2 which is primarily set as a stills upgrade and a manufacturer's replacement of the 5D3.

Not a wedding camera yet Canon's own site has sample images from the 6D II of brides in their gowns.......interesting.

There are plenty of people taking pictures at weddings who are not doing it for the money.

There are plenty of professional wedding photographers who have used cameras not capable of recording images in duplicate. Think 5DII. Think D700. Think decades of film photography.

 

[greger]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

I was hoping for a third quarter 2017 release for the 7D Mark 3. I felt the 7Dll was a fail with no wifi. Others thought I was a Troll for not swallowing the Canon Kool-aid and how dare I complain. My 7D is still taking pictures that I like. Canon has released the sdx wifi card which totally redeems me. The troll haters of that day are the fools! If the 7Dlll is not what I want then I'll wait to see what the 90D has to offer. Maybe it's time for me to go full frame.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim. I am sure you understand that it is important to stay risk aversed and also be responsible and avoid risks of loosing those photos of once in the lifetime event, never repeat again moments being wedding ceremony, etc for so many happy couples out their. Dual redundant card slot is just that: inexpensive insurance.
Therefore I would hazard to call any wedding photographer that consider taking risk shooting such an important events with non-redundant card slot an irresponsible person. Yes, irresponsible. I am sorry, Mr. Neuro, but back in the analogous days of film photography the redundancy was not so easily achievable as nowadays. Therefore I would argue, with all due respect, that your "back in the film day" example was not quite relevant.

The leading photographers and photo professional associations should take the lead and raise the bar in calling on industry to support compulsory dual redundant card standard in professional settings.

Oh, Lord, here we go again. There are many experienced photographers who do not deny the advantages of dual slot but who say it is way, way down their list of priorities. To say the 6D2 is not a 'wedding camera' because of only one card slot is asinine.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

to be honest, no one, and no chart is going to guess at when canon is ready to release another camera.

100% fair statement. We're just looking at historical tea leaves as a read on the future. It's a decidedly imperfect method.

Given the newer sensor tech that canon is using, the 7D Mark III needs to come out sooner than later, and a chart doesn't change that fact. that and the 5DSr IMO, are replaced next year as the two remaining cameras with old styled sensors.

^^ This is the heart of it to me -- some folks believe they are due a next-gen sensor in their chosen product line. ^^

I can't tell if you are conflating your sense of technology entitlement with Canon's deepest desires, or you have data that says that Canon needs to act or the sky will fall in this segment.

sigh. it was said as it was said. canon has aggressively since the release of the 1DX Mark II revamped almost the entire lineup with ADC / DPAF sensors.

T7i
77D
80D
6D Mark II
5D Mark IV
1DX Mark II
M5
M6
SL2

All those were done in 17 months. The only cameras NOT revamped off the old sensors are:
T6 (they give this away probably not relevant)
M10 (probably not on this list shortly with the M20 due out)
7D Mark II
5DS/R

Keep in mind it costs money for canon to keep the old fab machines running just for those cameras.

with the advent of the SL2 having a DPAF sensor and costing 549 USD. it's now evident that creating ADC/DPAF sensors isn't expensive for canon anymore. with the first sensors out of that, canon claimed the yields were especially low.

The 5D makes the most sense for photokina. what's left? So yes, it needs to be replaced and sooner than later. Both do. Besides that, what other cameras does canon even have to replace next year?

and it's a winter olympics year, the perfect time to showcase a new cropped sports camera.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

I was hoping for a third quarter 2017 release for the 7D Mark 3. I felt the 7Dll was a fail with no wifi. Others thought I was a Troll for not swallowing the Canon Kool-aid and how dare I complain. My 7D is still taking pictures that I like. Canon has released the sdx wifi card which totally redeems me. The troll haters of that day are the fools! If the 7Dlll is not what I want then I'll wait to see what the 90D has to offer. Maybe it's time for me to go full frame.

probably not happening. on non-photokina years canon has rarely if at all done a camera release in Q3.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim. I am sure you understand that it is important to stay risk aversed and also be responsible and avoid risks of loosing those photos of once in the lifetime event, never repeat again moments being wedding ceremony, etc for so many happy couples out their. Dual redundant card slot is just that: inexpensive insurance.
Therefore I would hazard to call any wedding photographer that consider taking risk shooting such an important events with non-redundant card slot an irresponsible person. Yes, irresponsible. I am sorry, Mr. Neuro, but back in the analogous days of film photography the redundancy was not so easily achievable as nowadays. Therefore I would argue, with all due respect, that your "back in the film day" example was not quite relevant.

The leading photographers and photo professional associations should take the lead and raise the bar in calling on industry to support compulsory dual redundant card standard in professional settings.

Oh, Lord, here we go again. There are many experienced photographers who do not deny the advantages of dual slot but who say it is way, way down their list of priorities. To say the 6D2 is not a 'wedding camera' because of only one card slot is asinine.

+1

Mr. SecureGSM, regarding insurance, how many of those homeowners and automobile owners would personally choose to pay for that insurance? I am sure you understand that mortgageholders and lienholders mandate that such insurance be maintained by the owners (who aren't really owners while there's a balance on the loan), and that in general jurisdictions require at least liability insurance in most circumstances. So I'd argue, with all due respect, that your home/auto/business insurance example is not quite relevant. Incidentally, I know a few wedding pros with dual-slot cameras, who write to one card, with the second card as overflow.

Also, given that the dual-slot implementation on most Canon bodies (my 1D X notwithstanding) involves a performance hit based on the lesser card slot, there's a tradeoff involved for that 'inexpensive insurance'. By the way, how do you conclude that it's 'inexpensive'?

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim.

well, house insurance is mandatory for a mortgage. car insurance is the law.

how many idiots drive in the USA without motorcycle helmets?

fun fact .. 1700+ americans died in 2015 because they didn't wear a helmet while riding or driving a motorcycle.

 

[x-vision]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

...

All those were done in 17 months. The only cameras NOT revamped off the old sensors are:
T6 (they give this away probably not relevant)
M10 (probably not on this list shortly with the M20 due out)
7D Mark II
5DS/R

Keep in mind it costs money for canon to keep the old fab machines running just for those cameras.

Exactly.

Moving all sensors to the new sensor tech is likely more cost-effective.
So, these updates are definitely pending.

My feeling is that the 5DS(R) successor(s) will be announced right before Photokina next year.
And the 7DIII will likely be announced sometime before that.

I'm not seeing a 90D announcement anytime soon, though.

The 80D was announced less than three years after the 70D - which seemed a bit too soon, given that the 70D specs were quite good.
I'd speculate that the 80D release was driven by the 6DII release, as these two cameras seem to share a lot of components (certainly the AF system).
But now that the 6DII has been announced, is there a pressing need to update the 80D in 2018?? I doubt it - but who knows.

 

[ScottyP]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim.

well, house insurance is mandatory for a mortgage. car insurance is the law.

how many idiots drive in the USA without motorcycle helmets?

fun fact .. 1700+ americans died in 2015 because they didn't wear a helmet while riding or driving a motorcycle.

Shouldn't they be wearing two helmets simultaneously though? No backup at all in case one fails?