Canon EOS R Mark II in testing [CR2]

[highdesertmesa]

Not needed. Thumb swipe works better.

Try using your thumb with the screen flipped out and your left hand holding the lens. It's stupidly awkward plus it trips the EVF sensor to reach over. The only other option is using the 4-way buttons to move it press by press.

 

[navastronia]

In difficult lighting conditions, the EVF display is nowhere near what the scene looks like. This is an example of that issue that I made a long time ago. The top, EVF view, is the out-of-camera JPEG. Note that this scene is NOT UNDEREXPOSED. There were still blown pixels in the raw data. It's just a high DR scene.

When you look up at a bright light source like this ceiling, your pupils (aperture) contract, and when you look at the ground, where it's darker, they widen. This is the effect of having 2 different exposures, much like an HDR photograph that takes multiple images and combines them. Your eyes do this seamlessly. Cameras do not.

Your photo demonstrates that you prefer to expose to preserve the highlights. Indeed, your image is exposed correctly for the highlights, but underexposed for the rest of the scene. When we photograph high DR scenes, we must always choose to expose for the highlights, shadows, or middle, and then compensate in post, like you have done.

RE: your first post that I replied to. In essence, you complain because an EVF doesn't show you the scene as it will look after you edit it, which you claim is the way the scene looked to your eyes. I say cameras don't work like that - in fact, no camera can capture a scene exactly as it looks to your eyes, since cameras and eyes operate differently. An EVF is just a tool, the purpose of which is to show you ~approximately~ what the camera is capturing ~before~ you push it in post. That said, many photographers prefer OVFs, and some likely always will, but the purpose of an EVF is different from the purpose of an OVF.

 

[highdesertmesa]

Off topic, I hate the term "Mark I" its called the EOS R.

EOS R Classic

Here we go again.

 

[Drcampbellicu]

I disagree
If the new R is truly a 5D mark replacement then it will be the professional biggest impact
The 5D mark line sells a ton and is probably by volume canons most important pro body

Let's face it. The 1DXMKIII will have the greatest impact on the current professional market than any other camera being discussed here.

It will also have the greatest impact on Nikon with their D6 coming to fruition with months of each other.

A professional mirrorless camera with the ergonomics' clarity in an EVF to rival an OVF after a generation of refining dies not exist. And to get everyone to make the substantial investment in all new glass will take a generation of proven efficacy.

The 1DXMKIII will be important as it show everyone what Canon is capable of placing into the next two generations of R and EVEN better!

 

[Larsskv]

Right! But it shows me what the scene actually looked like when I shot the picture, which is how I'm going to process the sensor data, which is way better than seeing an entirely different scene through the viewfinder.

So you edit your files to best replicate reality as you see it? Nothing wrong with that. I edit the files to my liking. Much more often than not, I find that much more interesting than trying to match reality. For most of my shots, I find the editing process as important as shooting the image in the first place.

 

[StoicalEtcher]

Continue reading...
The source claims that the Canon EOS R Mark II is slated to be announced ahead of Photokina in May and will closely mimic the ergonomics of the Canon EOS Rs,

Apologies if I have missed some facts about what the ergonomics of the Rs are going to be - what do you think this means - any ideas on how the ergo is planned/expected to change (as opposed to speculation about individual desires)?

Cheers

Stoical

 

[jolyonralph]

I think most of your predictions are probably right, with an fps around 12 with tracking enabled. But I don't think such a slight bump is going to cut the mustard. I suspect the bump will be something around 38 or higher. I just can't see it being the same as most of the aps-c cameras out there.

No, that's not what the majority of the 5D market buyers are asking for. Higher resolution sensors will be catered for with the 5DSR-class R body that's coming. Sony's A7, A7II and A7III have all had the same 24mpx resolution. If anything, 30mpx on the 5D IV/R is at about the sensible limit for a large percentage of the buyers, and it would probably be more sensible to stick to 30mpx in the next model. The only thing that really could make a difference to this is whether they want to go to a 40mpx sensor to allow for full-width 4k video at 1:2 resampling or pixel binning, but I don't really know enough about video to tell whether that would be a benefit or not.

 

[jolyonralph]

Also just to sprinkle some good old pessimism over this, the plans for a EOS R II mean that it's *highly* unlikely that the EOS R is going to get anything new and exciting implemented in firmware. Better, faster Eye AF, Animal Eye AF etc etc, that will all now be marketing opportunities in showing how the next generation is better than the current.

So, bug fixes, security issues and support for future RF lenses, that's about all you'll get in R firmware from now on.

 

[Lee Jay]

When you look up at a bright light source like this ceiling, your pupils (aperture) contract, and when you look at the ground, where it's darker, they widen. This is the effect of having 2 different exposures, much like an HDR photograph that takes multiple images and combines them. Your eyes do this seamlessly. Cameras do not.

Eyes can do it because retina sensitivity is local - you can effectively have different ISOs for different parts of the scene.

Your photo demonstrates that you prefer to expose to preserve the highlights. Indeed, your image is exposed correctly for the highlights, but underexposed for the rest of the scene. When we photograph high DR scenes, we must always choose to expose for the highlights, shadows, or middle, and then compensate in post, like you have done.

RE: your first post that I replied to. In essence, you complain because an EVF doesn't show you the scene as it will look after you edit it, which you claim is the way the scene looked to your eyes.

Correct.

I say cameras don't work like that

OVF cameras do.

- in fact, no camera can capture a scene exactly as it looks to your eyes, since cameras and eyes operate differently.

They can get pretty darned close.

An EVF is just a tool, the purpose of which is to show you ~approximately~ what the camera is capturing ~before~ you push it in post.

Which, for me, makes it an almost totally useless device.

 

[Lee Jay]

So you edit your files to best replicate reality as you see it?

Usually.

Nothing wrong with that. I edit the files to my liking. Much more often than not, I find that much more interesting than trying to match reality. For most of my shots, I find the editing process as important as shooting the image in the first place.

So do I.

 

[amorse]

Canon no longer dominating the full frame market is also out of character.

Releasing new and better bodies is a reasonable reaction to being overtaken by Sony in the full frame market, as Canon's current full frame lineup apparently has not had the desired effect.

As such this rumor is plausible.

No doubt it is plausible, all things considered, but for them to release all those bodies in short order they'd likely have been planning to do this for some time. Sony was only announced to have taken the full frame lead in the last week, though I think there were rumors of back and forth from ~ a year ago. I guess we'll know soon enough!

 

[Kit.]

Not a bad feature request. As far as the EVF showing less than what you get, you could always make your own super flat picture style style and then shoot with that? That's what many of us do.

The problem with that (apart from unusable in-camera jpegs) is that I would like to see what I would be losing in highlights. I can do it over the OVF, but for the EVF it would mean underexposing during preview. Indicators like zebras don't show what is lost, they only show where.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

Regardless of when it ends up coming, this is the camera I'm keeping a close eye on - and also, how it will compare to a possible 5DV.

 

[navastronia]

The problem with that (apart from unusable in-camera jpegs) is that I would like to see what I would be losing in highlights. I can do it over the OVF, but for the EVF it would mean underexposing during preview. Indicators like zebras don't show what is lost, they only show where.

Yeah, I agree 100%. Since I only shoot JPGs for backup, this has not concerned me. Indeed, with OVF, you can spot meter and find out what you're blowing out while still being able to see it.

---

"I say cameras don't work like that"

OVF cameras do.

Yeah, but they don't, though. The camera doesn't operate like your eyes do even if it has an OVF because the OVF doesn't have anything to do with the camera's exposure - it's just how YOU can see the scene in order to aim the camera and take a photo using the camera's sensor.

 

[Lee Jay]

"I say cameras don't work like that"



Yeah, but they don't, though. The camera doesn't operate like your eyes do even if it has an OVF because the OVF doesn't have anything to do with the camera's exposure - it's just how YOU can see the scene in order to aim the camera and take a photo using the camera's sensor.

The viewfinder sees what the eye sees, and the camera captures enough data to replicate that, in most cases.

 

[M. D. Vaden of Oregon]

Agree 100%, the EOS R Mark 1 was likely a quick stop-gap, giving Canon a bit of time to get out a more competitive mirrorless "successor" to the 5D Mark IV, i.e., the rumored EOS R Mark II mentioned in the OP.

Looking forward to seeing the specs on this one!

More than a stop gap really.

The EOS R is some regards, out performs the 5D mk iv, is lighter than all the 5D series, but also provided a tool to show how superb the RF glass is, and how the RF body can use EF glass even better than the EF bodies.

More of an essential single building block.

 

[GoldWing]

I disagree
If the new R is truly a 5D mark replacement then it will be the professional biggest impact
The 5D mark line sells a ton and is probably by volume canons most important pro body

The 5D is a good general market camera. Our rep has them at $1535 a copy now with the our Corp discount.

Our needs are a bit more demanding but the 5D is a great money maker.

Our hope is that the 1DXMKIII will provide a 3year window beyond Tokyo with a budget of $8,000 per copy to include two 256 Express Cards and spare batteries and case.

The 1DXII series at 15fps in RAW, with OVF and able to work in the most demanding environments is an exceptional tool. I hope the MKIII continues a tradition of what is a standard for professional sports photographers globally.

 

[David - Sydney]

It's potential news like this which makes me happy to wait and continue to shoot with my 5D3. The Mk4 and the R are just too much of an incremental bump. It's been 7 years, I can be patient for another long term body and not a stop gap.

I was the same but a cheapish second hand 5Div came up and I snapped it up... With the sale of my 5Diii, the changeover cost wasn't huge. Incremental change but in so many areas that I really notice it. The MP bump from 22 to 30mp is definitely noticeable as well as the shadow banding issue at high ISO. I just shot a karate grading and the indoor lighting was poor. ISO3200 was the minimum and I and the students were happy with the results

 

[Deleted member 379512]

No doubt it is plausible, all things considered, but for them to release all those bodies in short order they'd likely have been planning to do this for some time. Sony was only announced to have taken the full frame lead in the last week, though I think there were rumors of back and forth from ~ a year ago. I guess we'll know soon enough!

No doubt that this has been on the drawing board for a while before the ff leader announcement, but I would hazard a guess that the information about a new model coming out sooner than most expected might have been influenced by the recent news

 

[Don Haines]

No. That is exactly false.

The EVF displays what the in-camera JPEG is going to produce from the data the sensor is going to capture. It doesn't display what the sensor captures.

The final image could be many different things depending on processing. In my opinion, the best thing to do processing-wise is to try to produce and image that looks like the real scene looked after human visual-system processing, in most cases. And that's the reason the EVF should look like the scene looks, not like the out-of-camera JPEG.

And the colour balance..... and picture style......

the EVF (or live view) display is close. You can use it to get close to what you want, but you have to remember that there are a dozen settings that will effect the jpg, and you should have a good idea as to what you can do in post processing for that final image.

part of the magic is capturing the image, and part is in the darkroom, or Lightroom in the digital age.