Canon EOS R vs 5D Mark IV - Pros & Cons

[Jack Douglas]

Viggo, this is one of the rare occasions I've heard of the 1DX2 (and other 1 series cameras) having such inconsistency of auto focus. At the moment I don't know what to think of it. Any time I've established the AFMA settings it seems I'm good to go after that.

It's challenging going through a manual without the camera in hand! I do not see any info on whether it has double cross AF points or whether the AF point sensitivities vary across the full screen. In the 1DX2 manual the sensitivities and cross types are given for the various lenses. Is mirrorless simply not like this?

I see the R has a lot of programmability of buttons but at a glance it doesn't seem to allow as much choice of AF parameters associated with the particular AF modes in these assignments. What I could really benefit from is someone who presently uses the full capability of the 1DX2 and also owns the R giving a run down of what can and can't be done equally well with the R (Viggo, I guess you could do that but it would be from memory and not a direct comparison and maybe some cases of AF you've never bothered with etc.??). Guess this should really be a different thread.

Viggo, unlike you, I know I would miss the 14 FPS and here is my example of why. Some moments are very fleeting and not even registered at the time by the persons brain. However, the AF is not always perfect in such shots as the 1DX2 can't track very fast movements, which aligns with what you say.

Jack

 

[Viggo]

Lovely shot!

I guess they are not comparable in some ways, and each have their strengths. Mirrorless like the R only has horizontal line sensitively, no cross type. Yet it’s way better to just nail focus, and when in Servo locked where both camera and subject is still the AF is 100% stable, often the DSLR’s still go a little bit back and forth.

For the fast directly towards the camera I believe the 1dx2 will have more shots to choose from, but with experience I don’t exactly struggle with the R. Would have been superb to have a go at soccer with a 70-200, but I have only the RF50. Have tried that for ice-skating and had no issues. Seriously high keeper rate.

BIF I think the 1dx2 is the better choice for several reasons, like having OVF and better battery and the high fps etc.

But the fact that the R is so close in other terms, and in a few ways better I think speaks volumes of it’s capability.

I would not recommend every 1dx2 owner to replace it with the R, but it is a serious tool.

I used the 1dx2 to its potential in many cases and had a lot of custom modes and a setup that could change fast. I used it with fast AF lenses like the 200 f2, 24-70 II etc, and I guess the 1dx2 will be better with those, but with fast aperture lenses I don’t think the 1dx2 is any better, I think the R is better because of the super precise AF and anywhere in the frame.

 

[yungfat]

Why I made the move is based on weight and cost and my hate for AF that doesn’t work over time, and it’s the reason why I have always upgraded my 1-series as soon as a new model is out, they start to miss more and more and the constant looking after and calibrating and it still doesn’t hit. And with the 1dx2 I treated like a baby in order to not knock anything out of alignment, yet when it began missing and I handed it in for a checkup they said that the sensor and some mirror assembly stuff was out of alignment, not covered by warranty. So it really annoys me when I read about how they’re built like tanks etc, every. single. 5-series and 1-series I’ve had, haf these issues. I shoot only the fastest primes with no dof so it shows immediately. I hate spend loads of time taking thousands of test shots to try an figure out how to fix it. The AF spread is a major reason why I switched. And I figured that spending 7500 USD on yet another body that is only good for 2-5 years is not going to happen when everything moves towards mirrorless.

So, freedom with AF in terms of how precise and where I can place it and the new RF50 was big reasons. And my health doesn’t like the heavy 1-series anymore. I had lower expectations for tracking my kids with the R, but it’s much better, even with the RF50 who really doesn’t match a 70-200 for example.

I liked the 14 fps because it made the chance better of hitting, not the right moment, but focus. There was always the best frame (among others)that wasn’t in focus. Now every shot is in focus, hence the need for 14 isn’t there for me anymore.

Smaller, lighter, better lens, cheaper and gets better results, easy choice.

Something simple as this shot there is no need to recompose when the spread of AF point covers everything.

Thanks Viggo for the sharing.

So far do you notice any banding issue from your R?

Thank you.

 

[yungfat]

Lovely shot!

I guess they are not comparable in some ways, and each have their strengths. Mirrorless like the R only has horizontal line sensitively, no cross type. Yet it’s way better to just nail focus, and when in Servo locked where both camera and subject is still the AF is 100% stable, often the DSLR’s still go a little bit back and forth.

For the fast directly towards the camera I believe the 1dx2 will have more shots to choose from, but with experience I don’t exactly struggle with the R. Would have been superb to have a go at soccer with a 70-200, but I have only the RF50. Have tried that for ice-skating and had no issues. Seriously high keeper rate.

BIF I think the 1dx2 is the better choice for several reasons, like having OVF and better battery and the high fps etc.

But the fact that the R is so close in other terms, and in a few ways better I think speaks volumes of it’s capability.

I would not recommend every 1dx2 owner to replace it with the R, but it is a serious tool.

I used the 1dx2 to its potential in many cases and had a lot of custom modes and a setup that could change fast. I used it with fast AF lenses like the 200 f2, 24-70 II etc, and I guess the 1dx2 will be better with those, but with fast aperture lenses I don’t think the 1dx2 is any better, I think the R is better because of the super precise AF and anywhere in the frame.

Hi Viggo, do you feel the all AF points off center are perform as good as the center one?

Thanks.

 

[Viggo]

Hi Viggo, do you feel the all AF points off center are perform as good as the center one?

Thanks.

Yes.

 

[Viggo]

Thanks Viggo for the sharing.

So far do you notice any banding issue from your R?

Thank you.

If I push pictures shot with flash, then there is some banding. But when I have absolute control over light and expose differently on subject and background there is never any need to push in post.

For shots shot without flash I haven’t seen any banding at all.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Jack.
Don’t forget to take your own memory media with you so that you can take the trial images home and play with them!

Cheers, Graham.

Then it'll be a trip to the store to try it with some of my lenses.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

Thanks Graham! I might have forgotten.

Viggo, what you are saying is that it is very good in many areas and can be described as a great overall camera. All cameras so far have their negatives like the 1DX2 is so heavy. I resisted buying into something that heavy. First I got a used 1D2, then a used 1D4 and finally decided I could live with the weight of the 1DX2, reluctantly. For big lenses the difference is not as great but for walk around general use the R is seriously better and an extra 10 MP is significant. Having said that, the general consensus is that smaller pixels yield more noise at higher ISOs and that concerns me a little.

It would be silly to imagine an R obsoletes a 1DX2 at this point but it seems the writing is on the wall ... but how soon.

I hope you will continue to post your hands on of the R since it's as valuable or more so than the reviews we see at some sites.

Thanks for the complement on the bird but it's only posted to illustrate an open beak which to me is nicer than the closed one of a few milliseconds later. Bursts can be quite illuminating relative to understanding behaviour but so can video if the resolution and shutter speed are reasonably high.

Jack

 

[Jethro]

By the way, do you notice any banding on your night photography? YouTube reviewer Tony Northrup reported that he got a very bad banding shoot from a random night photography.

I haven't noticed any in low light (I shoot a lot in natural light in low light situations not so much at night), so I doubt it will be noticeable except in extreme situations. If you look at other threads here, I think it is only being reported at very high ISO - so it may be something that can be worked around. Good luck in your final decision!

 

[yungfat]

If I push pictures shot with flash, then there is some banding. But when I have absolute control over light and expose differently on subject and background there is never any need to push in post.

For shots shot without flash I haven’t seen any banding at all.

Thanks for sharing

 

[yungfat]

I haven't noticed any in low light (I shoot a lot in natural light in low light situations not so much at night), so I doubt it will be noticeable except in extreme situations. If you look at other threads here, I think it is only being reported at very high ISO - so it may be something that can be worked around. Good luck in your final decision!

Thanks for sharing.

 

[AlanF]

I am surprised that the 1DX2 is not rugged and has inconsistent AF. But Viggo has first hand knowledge and I don’t. My 5D cameras take a lot of hard use and they have very consistent spot on AF.

 

[Jack Douglas]

I am surprised that the 1DX2 is not rugged and has inconsistent AF. But Viggo has first hand knowledge and I don’t. My 5D cameras take a lot of hard use and they have very consistent spot on AF.

It somehow doesn't seem to make sense unless it could be applied in general to all cameras that Canon makes, like some shortcoming in the design of support structures or whatever. I used to view a photo on the computer and see the active AF point right where I wanted it but that particular location wasn't in sharp focus, and get worked up about it, but at this point I generally accept that focus takes time and sometimes the action is too fast. Maybe I'm just a fool who accepts crummy performance because I'm enamoured with Canon. I should have followed "what's his name" over to the Nikon camp.

One thing is that I generally use single spot focus on the shutter so in that case there is no help nearby but I have zone on the back button and often engage that if, for example, some flight is occurring.

Jack

 

[privatebydesign]

I have owned 1VHS's, 1D's, a 1Ds MkII, 1Ds MkIII's and 1DX MkII's, I have taken them all around the world several times and never babied them, I only just got FoCal as it was on special offer at B&H and still haven't used it as I am out of the country, otherwise I have never 'calibrated' my lenses seriously, a few token test shots of printed scales at an angle don't really count! I have never had an AF issue that worried me that was body based and I shoot at f1.4 with one of Canon's most maligned lenses, especially for AF, often.

I have had shutter failures, broken and misaligned lenses and I have dropped the various bodies on occasion, still never an AF issue, not saying others haven't, just that I don't believe it is a particularly common occurrence. But then I am not the kind of person to judge AF performance by the particular eyelash that is sharp, I value composition and content much more, anybody that doesn't needs to go see a Steve McCurry exhibition...

 

[3kramd5]

l I value composition and content much more, anybody that doesn't needs to go see a Steve McCurry exhibition...

Scratch that; everyone should see one. Period.

I think you and I have talked about how I happened upon one once in Prague when a tour I took literally ended in the gallery, and how I was so enthralled, and so disgusted by my own portfolio I thought about burning my equipment.

 

[Jack Douglas]

These comments make me feel really hopeless ... but I'm not giving up. No matter, it's fun and that counts too.

It would sure be fun/educational to tag along with those who know what they are doing!

Jack

 

[Viggo]

I have very high demands regarding AF precision, or.. well, if the subject is less sharp than it should be I’m not happy, I don’t know how others feel about that. I pay insane amounts of money for a camera that is supposed to be the best there is and I pay insane amounts of money for the lenses that are sharpest at the largest apertures to really get that pop I love. So when it’s not properly focused I could might as well used a 85 f1.8 or a 50 f1.4, I don’t think that’s acceptable when I pay ten times that. All 1-series, apart from the 1d3 who actually got better with the constant repairs and fixes, have gone from really, really good to pretty useless in the 4-5 years I had them. Maybe I’ll say the same thing about the R in 4 years, I don’t know, but for now it’s way better.

But with the mirrorless every single shot is giving me those 30mp’s and the absolute most out of the sharpness I paid for in the RF50, consistent results with one attempt which has given me back the joy of photography. Kids faces at shortish focusing distances has always meant trouble, but now with face tracking or single point I can communicate with them by holding the camera and look at them not through the VF, I catch their smiles instead of their impatiens, I don’t have to cut off the feet when shooting full body in vertical etc etc etc.

I can shoot with confidence I never could before.

I’m hoping the rumored 100 f1.4 has really fast AF so I can put the R through some fast faction without worrying if it’s the lens or body that’s too slow. The RF50 is pretty fast, but not anywhere near a 70-200.

 

[AlanF]

I also have very high demands on AF precision - needing to crop very heavily to see fine feather detail. I got the 5DIV and 5DSR as soon as they were released, and they have performed faultlessly since then with no deterioration in performance. You complain that then1D series deteriorate over 4-5 years, but you will have to wait and see if the R is the same in your hands.

 

[Viggo]

I also have very high demands on AF precision - needing to crop very heavily to see fine feather detail. I got the 5DIV and 5DSR as soon as they were released, and they have performed faultlessly since then with no deterioration in performance. You complain that then1D series deteriorate over 4-5 years, but you will have to wait and see if the R is the same in your hands.

The R has a lot fewer things that can get misaligned though. And if it deteriorates in the same way, at least it worked better the time it did, and I only lose one third of the money spent

 

[AlanF]

The R has a lot fewer things that can get misaligned though. And if it deteriorates in the same way, at least it worked better the time it did, and I only lose one third of the money spent

True, the depreciation is not so important when it's 66% cheaper! I tend to use my gear with the soft (silent) shutter mode, which may produce less deteroration from vibration? In the past when I had a 7D, focus was a bit hit and miss and I used to take several shots to find the sharpest ones. But with my favourite telephoto lenses from the newer ranges (400mm DO II and 100-400mm II), I take far too many shots of birds to get the best pose and spend far too much time looking for miniscule differences before culling - it's dfficult to break old habits, but I am cutting down from taking and then deleting identically sharp images.