Canon EOS R5 Mark II sensor resolution likely to stick at 45mp but with new AI features [CR2]

[navastronia]

You are wrong: When you buy a perpetual software license, you do not get ownership of the software. You buy the right to use the software for as long as you wish (i.e. until the software is no longer supported, or the software does not support your new camera, or the software no longer works because the operating system of your computer becomes obsolete, etc.).

Your correction doesn't impact my argument in the slightest.

 

[LDS]

You are wrong: When you buy a perpetual software license, you do not get ownership of the software. You buy the right to use the software for as long as you wish (i.e. until the software is no longer supported, or the software does not support your new camera, or the software no longer works because the operating system of your computer becomes obsolete, etc.).

That's true for a book or a LP/CD as well. The difference is they don't stop working as soon as you stop paying - or the subscription itself becomes unavailable, and you can pass them along to others. The difference is it's the customer who decides if and when buying again, not the seller.

Anyway I believe Canon thinks to make some features subscription-only, not the whole camera. Just like some cars manufactures tried to make some features subscription-only, just to find people weren't going to pay monthly to have seats heating active. Now if it is some niche feature maybe most customers won't complain, if you have to pay monthly to get M, Av and Tv modes, or TTL flash support, it will backfire.

 

[Walrus]

Interesting; would be cool to have the R5 II with subscription!

Basics:
45mpx sensor but capped to half res when saving to card, IBIS is there but disabled
One-shoot AF
People's Eye AF
Basic speed AF
Battery power cap (camera wouldn't use more then 50% of a battery, then you have to recharge to 100% to use again)
1080p60
4k30
Flipping rear display but locked in place by electromech lock

Subscriptions:
Full 45mpx res - 200$/year
IBIS enabling - 100$/year
Full battery usage over 50% - 80$/year
Enhanced speed AF - 50$/year
Servo AF - 35$/year
Bird AF - 20$/year
Car/Bike/Plane AF - 20$/year
Dog/Cat AF - 10$/year (5$/year if you have at least two dogs and a cat, and can send documents to prove. Subject to approval by Canon)
1080p120 - 20$/year
4k60 - 50$/year
8k - 100$/year
Flip display unlock - 50$/year

Camera must connect to internet PC at least every 2 weeks to check that wasn't hacked, or has Magic Lantern firmware, or anything similar.
Yearly plans goes from 1st Jan to 31st Dec, if you join in September you pay full year.
Plans must be renowned by 12pm 1st Jan each year, so you can take pics at new years eve without ruining it; at 12:01pm the camera bricks.
Date/time will not be user selectable, camera will get them by internet when connecting every two weeks, so no way of cheating the camera with date change.
You can actually cut/saw the lock of the display, but the display frame has rfid sensor on the unhinged end, if the sensor is moved away from the camera (so display is flipped) without the proper subscription, camera will know, and first time it connect to internet will not only brick, but overheat and kills its sensor and power processor, rendering it unusable.

It will be fun

 

[AlanF]

Interesting; would be cool to have the R5 II with subscription!

Basics:
45mpx sensor but capped to half res when saving to card, IBIS is there but disabled
One-shoot AF
People's Eye AF
Basic speed AF
Battery power cap (camera wouldn't use more then 50% of a battery, then you have to recharge to 100% to use again)
1080p60
4k30
Flipping rear display but locked in place by electromech lock

Subscriptions:
Full 45mpx res - 200$/year
IBIS enabling - 100$/year
Full battery usage over 50% - 80$/year
Enhanced speed AF - 50$/year
Servo AF - 35$/year
Bird AF - 20$/year
Car/Bike/Plane AF - 20$/year
Dog/Cat AF - 10$/year (5$/year if you have at least two dogs and a cat, and can send documents to prove. Subject to approval by Canon)
1080p120 - 20$/year
4k60 - 50$/year
8k - 100$/year
Flip display unlock - 50$/year

Camera must connect to internet PC at least every 2 weeks to check that wasn't hacked, or has Magic Lantern firmware, or anything similar.
Yearly plans goes from 1st Jan to 31st Dec, if you join in September you pay full year.
Plans must be renowned by 12pm 1st Jan each year, so you can take pics at new years eve without ruining it; at 12:01pm the camera bricks.
Date/time will not be user selectable, camera will get them by internet when connecting every two weeks, so no way of cheating the camera with date change.
You can actually cut/saw the lock of the display, but the display frame has rfid sensor on the unhinged end, if the sensor is moved away from the camera (so display is flipped) without the proper subscription, camera will know, and first time it connect to internet will not only brick, but overheat and kills its sensor and power processor, rendering it unusable.

It will be fun

Careful, there are some who might not realise you are joking.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Interesting; would be cool to have the R5 II with subscription!

Basics:
45mpx sensor but capped to half res when saving to card, IBIS is there but disabled
One-shoot AF
People's Eye AF
Basic speed AF
Battery power cap (camera wouldn't use more then 50% of a battery, then you have to recharge to 100% to use again)
1080p60
4k30
Flipping rear display but locked in place by electromech lock

Subscriptions:
Full 45mpx res - 200$/year
IBIS enabling - 100$/year
Full battery usage over 50% - 80$/year
Enhanced speed AF - 50$/year
Servo AF - 35$/year
Bird AF - 20$/year
Car/Bike/Plane AF - 20$/year
Dog/Cat AF - 10$/year (5$/year if you have at least two dogs and a cat, and can send documents to prove. Subject to approval by Canon)
1080p120 - 20$/year
4k60 - 50$/year
8k - 100$/year
Flip display unlock - 50$/year

Camera must connect to internet PC at least every 2 weeks to check that wasn't hacked, or has Magic Lantern firmware, or anything similar.
Yearly plans goes from 1st Jan to 31st Dec, if you join in September you pay full year.
Plans must be renowned by 12pm 1st Jan each year, so you can take pics at new years eve without ruining it; at 12:01pm the camera bricks.
Date/time will not be user selectable, camera will get them by internet when connecting every two weeks, so no way of cheating the camera with date change.
You can actually cut/saw the lock of the display, but the display frame has rfid sensor on the unhinged end, if the sensor is moved away from the camera (so display is flipped) without the proper subscription, camera will know, and first time it connect to internet will not only brick, but overheat and kills its sensor and power processor, rendering it unusable.

It will be fun

You forgot to add the surcharge for CHPI*.





*cripple hammer protection insurance

 

[John Wilde]

Subscribing to software at a low price must seem like a fair deal when you've already given up on the idea of ownership, which was the norm less than 10 years ago.

Yes, I've give up on software that never gets feature updates and won't work on future operating system versions. If memory serves, back in the day, "owning" the full MS Office suite was crazy expensive for individuals.

 

[navastronia]

If memory serves, back in the day, "owning" the full MS Office suite was crazy expensive for individuals.

From an arstechnica article in 2010 on the launch of Office 2010:

Microsoft has revealed prices for the various Office 2010 SKUs that it announced back in July 2009. The company also confirmed the existence of the Office Professional Academic 2010 edition, which we first got word of last month after the retail box art for four SKUs leaked to the Web. Now these four have received US retail price tags, which we've outlined in the following chart:

SKU	INCLUDED APPLICATIONS	BOXED PRICE	KEY CARD PRICE
Home and Student	Word, PowerPoint, Excel, and OneNote	$149	$119
Home and Business	Same as above, plus Outlook	$279	$199
Standard	Same as above, plus Publisher	Volume Licensing	Volume Licensing
Professional	Same as above, plus Access	$499	$349
Professional Academic	Same as above	$99	N/A

Average use case is Home and Business, which includes Outlook. That would cost $279 if you bought it boxed, and could easily last you 10 years. $279/10 is $27.90 per year of use, versus $70.00 you mention for Office 365, which is SAAS (software as a service). Accounting for inflation, this is still almost double the cost of the aforementioned, and if you stop paying, your software stops working.

 

[amorse]

I feel the same way but Adobe is proof that not everyone feels that way.
I would prefer the Microsoft Office approach where there is a choice between a subscription and a lifetime license.

I think Adobe is the reason a lot of companies are trying the subscription model. It has worked for them, but I’d argue that the reason it works for them seems to be missed by a lot of companies trying to replicate the model. I’m no expert, but I’ve always thought a lot of people stick with adobe because they have numerous products which especially graphic designers may need. Replacing adobe once you’re in their ecosystem could mean finding new options for desktop publishing, photo manipulation, vector graphics, video editing, and several others. Each of those changes would come with a new learning curve, individual cost, and potential compatibility issues with files you already have and depend on. Given that adobe dominated the market for many of those software packages for a long time, it means a lot people would have to go that painful process to drop Adobe. That’s a pretty high barrier for exit. For other services like cars, and I’d argue cameras as well (GoPro tried this and then backed off), there is indeed competition, and a lower bar for change. Yes, you have to re-learn, yes there is an upfront cost, but your old files are still accessible (for cameras anyway) and comparable products are available on the market without the subscription model.

With all that said, this is a rumour and certainly some assuming the worst is going on in here. I truly hope that any subscription system doesn’t go down the worst case scenario, but we will see.

 

[Tom W]

Same sensor or a new one? That is the key question.

 

[Cryve]

Same sensor or a new one? That is the key question.

Id say its very likely a new one, at least historcally canon has put new sensors in their 5d line.

Sony has a different approach here, where they only update the sensor every second generation, but their camera cycle is shorter (was 2 years, now its 3 years).

With a 4 year cycle like in the canon 5d line, its very likely a new sensor.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Same sensor or a new one? That is the key question.

Either way, it will be “newly developed”…

 

[Tom W]

As for any kind of subscription requirement, that would surely put an Olympus, Sony, Nikon, or other camera in my hand. I want to BUY a camera, not rent it.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

The resolution rumor is very good news, I think. There are tradeoffs that come with more resolution. With current technology, 45MP is probably a little more than optimal, but it keeps the 8k video shooters happy. I would be happy with something in the lower 40's.

The R5 is already 44.5MP, you think it's too much and optimal resolution would be, say, 42MP? What kind of benefits you're expecting from lowering the pixel count by 3MP?

If the 45Mp rumour is true, it's disappointing. Well it's not exciting at the very least.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Interesting; would be cool to have the R5 II with subscription!

Basics:
45mpx sensor but capped to half res when saving to card, IBIS is there but disabled
One-shoot AF
People's Eye AF
Basic speed AF
Battery power cap (camera wouldn't use more then 50% of a battery, then you have to recharge to 100% to use again)
1080p60
4k30
Flipping rear display but locked in place by electromech lock

Subscriptions:
Full 45mpx res - 200$/year
IBIS enabling - 100$/year
Full battery usage over 50% - 80$/year
Enhanced speed AF - 50$/year
Servo AF - 35$/year
Bird AF - 20$/year
Car/Bike/Plane AF - 20$/year
Dog/Cat AF - 10$/year (5$/year if you have at least two dogs and a cat, and can send documents to prove. Subject to approval by Canon)
1080p120 - 20$/year
4k60 - 50$/year
8k - 100$/year
Flip display unlock - 50$/year

Camera must connect to internet PC at least every 2 weeks to check that wasn't hacked, or has Magic Lantern firmware, or anything similar.
Yearly plans goes from 1st Jan to 31st Dec, if you join in September you pay full year.
Plans must be renowned by 12pm 1st Jan each year, so you can take pics at new years eve without ruining it; at 12:01pm the camera bricks.
Date/time will not be user selectable, camera will get them by internet when connecting every two weeks, so no way of cheating the camera with date change.
You can actually cut/saw the lock of the display, but the display frame has rfid sensor on the unhinged end, if the sensor is moved away from the camera (so display is flipped) without the proper subscription, camera will know, and first time it connect to internet will not only brick, but overheat and kills its sensor and power processor, rendering it unusable.

It will be fun

I'd buy it if the basic version was around $500. It'd be much cheaper than some $5000 if I only use the camera for 5 years.

 

[AlanF]

The R5 is already 44.5MP, you think it's too much and optimal resolution would be, say, 42MP? What kind of benefits you're expecting from losing the pixel count by 3MP?

If the 45Mp rumour is true, it's disappointing. Well it's not exciting at the very least.

Absolutely! 44.5 -> 42 Mpx, would lead to only a 3% change in resolution and 6% in file size.

 

[Anon]

It is the moral duty of everyone to crack Adobe software, as they have been the ones infecting every last industry with this subscription BS.

The only upside to subscription based features is that there is always some smart person figuring out how to use an alternative licensing, if you catch my drift.

 

[Cryve]

Nikon have a 45 mp sensor since the release of the d850 in 2017. Thew z7 has 45 mp, so does the z7 ii and also the z8 and z9.

Perhaps 45 mp is somewhat of a sweetspot.

 

[Walrus]

I'd buy it if the basic version was around $500. It'd be much cheaper than some $5000 if I only use the camera for 5 years.

At 500€£$ that wouldn't be fun at all; I think if the camera would cost 4.500€$£ + sub's, then we'll have some real fun!

 

[LeeD]

I hate the thought of a subscription for most things but if Canon is willing to give me an R5 mk 2 for a dollar a day I'll sign up for that subscription. I'd even stretch to a $5/day subscription for each day I used a camera if there was no initial cost. I know, dreams are free.
As for a subscription for "features", having gotten into photography in the manual camera/manual focus film days I now enjoy auto focus and would love to get a body with good eye tracking but whatever happened to slowing down and composing a photo and the joy of the tactile experience of using a camera to produce one great photo rather then the spray and pray approach. Before you jump on me, yes there's a time/place/use case for each type of photography but I never got into this game to use a camera as a gadget that does all the artificial thinking for me. If I had to buy a feature to photograph bears or fence posts I'd rather opt out and use my own natural intelligence and compositional skills.
PS. I work in IT and generally I'm not a luddite.

 

[TwoWheeler]

I avoid subscriptions. If Canon would move in this direction I might move to another manufacturer, Sony or Nikon...

As for any kind of subscription requirement, that would surely put an Olympus, Sony, Nikon, or other camera in my hand. I want to BUY a camera, not rent it.

Sony? The ones who are already charging to add grid lines?