Canon EOS R6 announcement moved to July [CR2]

[Deleted member 381342]

I am hoping the R5 and R6 share bodies and it is just a choice between low light performance and high megapixels. Lets them reduce costs and keeps things simple for accessories. But they might surprise with with a high megapixel camera that also outclasses everyone else in low light.

 

[Architect1776]

I think you missplaced the "."

It sounds like a FF Rebel to me.

 

[davidhfe]

With the 20MP body, does that mean there will be "DEEPER PIXELS?

I currently use an RP and an M5, and this sounds like its upgrade, except it's a downgrade in MP versus both(26/24MP)? This seems odd unless they are doing something we don't know about. Really good lowlight?

Also, there should be a clear IQ gain over the RP (and the M5, but that's a crop camera so not apples to apples). The better AA filter and dynamic range (a full two stop difference!) should make for a much better overall image.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

IIRC, Red’s patent only covers compressed raw “in-camera”. Which is why companies like Atomos are able to make a business case for external raw capture. If the compression is handled by a chip in the handgrip it avoids running into such legal issues.
I think many believe it is technical challenges that that prevent higher compression ratios for raw internally, whereas this is primarily a legal issue.

I've mentioned more than once that the grip has the room for external processing/memory via a fiber optic link in the base plate. It would make it an excellent workaround not only for patent considerations, but for increasing processing power and spreading out the heat generated when shooting video.

 

[mb66energy]

I've mentioned more than once that the grip has the room for external processing/memory via a fiber optic link in the base plate. It would make it an excellent workaround not only for patent considerations, but for increasing processing power and spreading out the heat generated when shooting video.

I think the 200D has some electronic inside its grip, maybe (for shure!) with some fibre optic data connection. The grip gets warm during video compared to e.g. M50s back side (around sensor location) - maybe its only a voltage converter but heat is heat and slightly warmer sensors are always better than hot sensors.
And 200D has slightly cleaner IQ compared to the M50 while sharing similar sensors - not measured, just oberved.

 

[SteveC]

Total speculation:

Is it possible someone has decided that 20MP would be a mistake--if nothing else, from a marketing standpoint--and they're looking at a somewhat higher resolution sensor?

 

[slclick]

Total speculation:

Is it possible someone has decided that 20MP would be a mistake--if nothing else, from a marketing standpoint--and they're looking at a somewhat higher resolution sensor?

I could see that with a company who was in business for a short time....Canon? nah, it's something else. Maybe they are going to blow our minds and break the MP stigma. I'll be first in line to lower my megapickles for better IQ and DR. (5D3)

 

[vjlex]

Today the state of emergency was extended in Japan, so that may have something to do with it...

 

[usern4cr]

IIRC, Red’s patent only covers compressed raw “in-camera”. Which is why companies like Atomos are able to make a business case for external raw capture. If the compression is handled by a chip in the handgrip it avoids running into such legal issues.
I think many believe it is technical challenges that that prevent higher compression ratios for raw internally, whereas this is primarily a legal issue.

If it really is only a legal issue (which is believable) then ReallyRightStuff could sell a full-body-width 1/2" high ArcaSwiss quick release base plate for the R5 and instead of having empty space inside most of that baseplate it could have electronics to do raw compression, extra memory storage, extra battery etc. You could get a lot of stuff packed into something that high, and still have a A.S. quick release!

Keep in mind that I will be one of many who will definitely buy a ArcaSwiss base plate (with L bracket) and not a full bottom battery&vertical grip, so this could be a real business opportunity for any manufacturer who sees the potential!

 

[Ozarker]

Total speculation:

Is it possible someone has decided that 20MP would be a mistake--if nothing else, from a marketing standpoint--and they're looking at a somewhat higher resolution sensor?

No

 

[usern4cr]

I am hoping the R5 and R6 share bodies and it is just a choice between low light performance and high megapixels. Lets them reduce costs and keeps things simple for accessories. But they might surprise with with a high megapixel camera that also outclasses everyone else in low light.

Low light performance does not have to be inherently dependent on MP, rather it's dependent on total sensor size and quantum efficiency & well depth. You can fudge with pixel size & pixel lensing elements & pixel well depth and adjust ISO all you want, but it comes down to how much light in total hits the area of your sensor, and how many of those photons you can sense. Between the R5 and R6 the sensor size is identical and I don't think the MP difference is the driving factor. I think the main thing is how the sensors are designed in pixel lensing, efficiency and well depth. You may find they're about the same or that either one is better than the other in low light.

 

[PureClassA]

Disappointing, but not surprising. Obviously this put a dent in the supply chain.

 

[PureClassA]

I hope the R5 announcement will be in May, i can't read anymore the fanboys saying over and over "15 seconds record limit in 8k" "It's just a piece of plastic it won't even turn on" "2022 announcement"

Well in ALL -I 4k Canon is at 480MB/sec. 8K is 4 times that. Now It probbaly wont be 2GB/sec but I'd bet at least 1GB/sec, hence the necessity for CFExpress that can record up to 1.7GB/sec.

So if you're using a 64GB CFExpress card... yeah that might actually be about ONE MINUTE in 8k. Even a $400 256GB CFExpress card would still only get 4-5 mins or so.

Again, I dont think Canon intended 8K to be a widely used factor. This camera is about showing off the other kids who still has the biggest junk on the block.

So it's NOT a Canon limitation. It's a limitation of recording medium. And short of putting an SDI bank on the R5 (never happening for various reasons) there's no way to sling that much data out the camera to an external, and there isn't even an external yet that can do it, because a typical 2.5" SSD is still too slow.

So if you see the Sony Fanboys bitching, remind them... uhh it's NOT Canon.... It's the Card makers that can't keep up with Canon.

 

[Doug7131]

Well in ALL -I 4k Canon is at 480MB/sec. 8K is 4 times that. Now It probbaly wont be 2GB/sec but I'd bet at least 1GB/sec, hence the necessity for CFExpress that can record up to 1.7GB/sec.

So if you're using a 64GB CFExpress card... yeah that might actually be about ONE MINUTE in 8k. Even a $400 256GB CFExpress card would still only get 4-5 mins or so.

You are confusing Bytes with bits here. The stated bitrate for the 1DXIII is 470Mb/s ALL-i which is 59MB/s. So 8K would be roughly 240MB/s. Giving you about 5m on a 64GB card and 20m on a 256GB card.

 

[davidhfe]

Well in ALL -I 4k Canon is at 480MB/sec. 8K is 4 times that. Now It probbaly wont be 2GB/sec but I'd bet at least 1GB/sec, hence the necessity for CFExpress that can record up to 1.7GB/sec.

So if you're using a 64GB CFExpress card... yeah that might actually be about ONE MINUTE in 8k. Even a $400 256GB CFExpress card would still only get 4-5 mins or so.

Again, I dont think Canon intended 8K to be a widely used factor. This camera is about showing off the other kids who still has the biggest junk on the block.

So it's NOT a Canon limitation. It's a limitation of recording medium. And short of putting an SDI bank on the R5 (never happening for various reasons) there's no way to sling that much data out the camera to an external, and there isn't even an external yet that can do it, because a typical 2.5" SSD is still too slow.

So if you see the Sony Fanboys bitching, remind them... uhh it's NOT Canon.... It's the Card makers that can't keep up with Canon.

One small note, codecs are typically specified in bits, card capacities are typically in bytes. Unless my math is wrong, the situation isn't *quite* as severe as above:

- 5.5K 30fps raw on the 1DX3 is 1800Mbps per dpreview, so that's about 18 minutes on a 256 MB CFe card.
- 480Mbps is doable on high-spec UHS-II cards. I'd expect to get an ALL-I 4K codec that works to both/either card, and that bit rate would allow for over an hour.
- 8K raw will be a monster for sure, but I'd guess you'll be around 10min on a 256GB card
- 8K 30 I'd expect to see a codec that's more in the 500-1000mbps range. Maybe 30 mins to a 256?

Edit: Ninja'd!

 

[victorshikhman]

Canon needs to sell something. If they feel the R5 is a truly market-leading product, and the design was already 95% done, then there's no reason to make that camera instead of more 5D IV's, which would also slow the transition from EF to RF in the long run. The 5D IV probably costs less to manufacture but again triggers purchase of EF glass (if any), whereas another RF body causes more RF glass to be bought as well.

Canon isn't selling much of anything. Only a very small number of an already shrinking customer base would commit to a $3500 camera right now, in the midst of a global pandemic, job insecurity, etc. It's not about selling the 5DIV vs the R5. Their sales are probably down 50% or more, and as savings are used up around the world, luxuries like a new camera are not going to be on many minds. Of course, pros who need one and are still making money will get one, but that's a very small market. This is probably the time to hunker down, pause all R&D, reduce marketing, manufacturing and capital expenses and hoard cash, not release several blockbuster cameras. Maybe they feel they have nothing to lose with the R5, it's already done. But it makes total sense to delay the R6.

 

[usern4cr]

Canon isn't selling much of anything. Only a very small number of an already shrinking customer base would commit to a $3500 camera right now, in the midst of a global pandemic, job insecurity, etc. It's not about selling the 5DIV vs the R5. Their sales are probably down 50% or more, and as savings are used up around the world, luxuries like a new camera are not going to be on many minds. Of course, pros who need one and are still making money will get one, but that's a very small market. This is probably the time to hunker down, pause all R&D, reduce marketing, manufacturing and capital expenses and hoard cash, not release several blockbuster cameras. Maybe they feel they have nothing to lose with the R5, it's already done. But it makes total sense to delay the R6.

Well, I still am guessing the R5 will come out at $2,999 - $3,499 (I know most disagree, but I'm sticking to it). I'd be willing to buy it for sure, and I'll spend probably 2 times more for additional lenses. And I think there will be plenty of others to do so. For Canon to not sell it soon, when they can, is just to let more sales slip to their competition, and admit defeat. And I just don't see them doing that.

 

[AEWest]

I personally don't think there's anything here beyond a likely re-use (or development based off of) the 1DX3 sensor as a cost savings. It's pretty clear their current (non 1DX3) sensors aren't up to the task when it comes to speed/af responsiveness. It's also unclear what other body a brand new 24-26mp full frame sensor would go into that would justify the cost, and there'd be limit IQ gains over 20.

It might be more attractive for many to have a 30+ mp camera such as the R but with IBIS and AF joystick (R Mark II?) that doesn't have a 12fps frame rate or the latest and greatest video specs.

Maybe that is one of the two cameras rumored for next year?

 

[unfocused]

...For Canon to not sell it soon, when they can, is just to let more sales slip to their competition, and admit defeat. And I just don't see them doing that.

"...when they can..." is the operative phrase here.

The global supply chain has been decimated. It will be a long time before supplies meet demand for any manufacturer. Anyone who has been paying attention can see that Canon, its competitors, third party manufacturers and retailers are all searching their stockrooms for anything they can find and offering great buys to clear out inventory as they all try to salvage as much of their revenue projections as they can.

As far as letting "more sales slip to their competition" or admitting "defeat," we've heard those ridiculous fictions so many times it doesn't warrant a response.

I suspect Canon is trying to strike a balance between when they make any announcements and when the product is likely to actually ship. They are probably comfortable with announcements that precede ship dates by two to three months, but beyond that they risk customers losing interest. Announce in July, start shipping in September. Pre-orders fulfilled from Sept to November, then a slow dribble of product for the next three to six months.

 

[Adelino]

Total speculation:

Is it possible someone has decided that 20MP would be a mistake--if nothing else, from a marketing standpoint--and they're looking at a somewhat higher resolution sensor?

Too late for mistakes at this point. That was decided two years ago.