A poll for potential FF mirrorless buyers. After 25 pages of discussion regarding the potential new FF mirrorless and what mount it should have, I thought a poll might be interesting. Assume an EF adapter will be available if Canon chooses a brand new mount. Assume new FF mount will be slightly larger than the current M APS-C mount, but considerably smaller than EF mount.
Canon FF mirrorless Poll
- Thread starter dak723
- Start date
neuroanatomist said:
It was right after the "M" came out, a interview with Chuck Westfall as I recall. Its been so long that those old interviews have been lost. I'll look, but not much hope. I saved a url, but the linked to article is gone, I should have saved the text.
I don't believe the issue is the mount diameter, but rather the flange back distance and the extreme angle that light rays strike towards the edge of the sensor. DPAF apparently does not work well at all, and measures must be taken to try and get more light to the outer photosites.
The recent patent shows that Canon has been working on the issue, the lack of a FF short flange back mirrorless shows that they have not found a solution, or at best, its in the pipeline.
The other issue is the market diversity between Asia and America/Europe. Asians have accepted small mirrorless cameras and they sell well there. In the USA, buyers see a larger DSLR as more desirable and equate small bodies with cheap point and shoot cameras. It may be as simple as hand sizes and comfort in holding a camera.
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Loswr
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
DPAF aside, I don't think the short flange focal distance (FFD) is an issue for optical performance. Leica's L-mount has a 19mm FFD, their FF 24-90mm lens has a rear element quite close to the back. I think the lens does just fine, optically.
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neuroanatomist said:
I think the issue as it exists today is with dual pixels. Using offset microlenses to counteract the incident light rays does not play well with DPAF.
However, at the time of the old review, Canon apparently did not believe that the M mount would work for FF but no reason was specified that I recall. Certainly, others have made similar mount sizes and flange back distances work, so were they planning on DPAF back then in 2012? Its very possible.
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Loswr
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slclick said:
But we glass lovers are current customers. I'm sure lots of FD owners would have voted to keep FD. Of course, in this case there's not really a compelling reason for a new mount. But backing up a step, from Canon's perspective it appears there's not yet a compelling reason for a FF MILC.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
As I recall, Westfall's phrasing was that the M mount would never be used for FF, but no reason was given. I'm absolutely certain that Canon did a feasibility study of using the M mount for FF during development. Anything else would be engineering malpractice.
I don't like the choices in this poll either. I want certain characteristics and capabilities, such as lighter weight, higher FPS and low cost. FF mirrorless with an EF mount just seems like the best way to get them.
Nikon's F mount for SLRs, at 44mm, is smaller diameter than either the M mount or Sony's E mount but the F mount flange distance is 46.5mm, longer than current EF mount.
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I personally prefer low latency, fast reacting EVF focusing over live view mode. with longer lenses anyway and for stability reasons.
If only Contrast detection / DPAF AF speed was as good as in Phase Detection AF mode... AF accuracy in contrast detection / DPAF mode is obviously higher with less OOF shots out of the bunch..
It's hard to compose with rear LCD screen in bright light as well. battery life never concerned me much, to be honest. Canon batteries are cheap enough and small enough to carry a few spares in my pockets as I shoot. takes about 15 seconds to replace. pop one out pop one in. keep shooting. I quickly learnt how to catch the best moment to "reload"
If only Contrast detection / DPAF AF speed was as good as in Phase Detection AF mode... AF accuracy in contrast detection / DPAF mode is obviously higher with less OOF shots out of the bunch..
It's hard to compose with rear LCD screen in bright light as well. battery life never concerned me much, to be honest. Canon batteries are cheap enough and small enough to carry a few spares in my pockets as I shoot. takes about 15 seconds to replace. pop one out pop one in. keep shooting. I quickly learnt how to catch the best moment to "reload"
Mt Spokane Photography said:
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unfocused
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neuroanatomist said:
Agreed. Worse yet...
Bob Howland said:
Not picking on Bob, but every time there is a discussion or survey on full frame mirrorless on this forum, I see a dozens of different and contradictory "demands" that people insist are absolutely mandatory for Canon to meet before they will consider a full frame mirrorless.
Given that interchangeable lens cameras are a niche market... mirrorless is a niche market...and full frame is a niche market, I agree with Neuro...Can't see Canon jumping into this market anytime soon.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Agreed. I have no plans to buy a Canon FF camera anytime in the foreseeable future. I like the DSLR and at FF sensor sizes I think it's been shown over and over that there is really isn't any size advantage, especially if you are shooting fast glass. Generally speaking, I feel the mirrorless advantage is a smaller kit at the right sensor sizes.
So therefore I have bought APS-C Canon mirrorless though, taking a shot with a couple M's and I waited patiently to see them develop as the M felt like only investing in "half" of a new system with the adapter for existing glass. Well, eventually I jumped ship in that regard and did the full investment in a 2nd system as I felt the M just never got competitive (at least in my timeline).
In short I did not answer the poll as none of the options seems applicable to me.
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Since I have no real intention of buying FF mirroless anytime soon I chose the first option. I don't really care what mount it should or could have though I think logically it should be EF. Even if Canon released an EF mount FF today I'd be content with my DSLR.
Maybe, in the distant future if all cameras in their lineup became mirrorless due to advanced technology I'd be on board. Right now FF mirrorless just seems like a bit of a handicap. Where I feel it has benefit, to me, is size and weight reduction and for this the EOS M does a great job. Takes a slight hit in IQ but makes up for it with a highly useful compact design. I've got some shots that wouldn't have been possible with anything larger. You can put it in some really small and tight spaces!
Maybe, in the distant future if all cameras in their lineup became mirrorless due to advanced technology I'd be on board. Right now FF mirrorless just seems like a bit of a handicap. Where I feel it has benefit, to me, is size and weight reduction and for this the EOS M does a great job. Takes a slight hit in IQ but makes up for it with a highly useful compact design. I've got some shots that wouldn't have been possible with anything larger. You can put it in some really small and tight spaces!
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Aussie shooter
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There was not the perfect option for me but the closest was the first. Only if there are no more DSLR's. If I could I would expand on that. I would say I might consider it if and when EVF's are as pleasing as OVF's and I can't see that happening in the wildlife arena. Not for a long while yet anyway.
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I would buy a mirrorless camera when
Battery life is as good or better than that of a dslr
Ergonomics and controls are similar to that of a dslr
Viewfinder lag is similar or better than that of an OVF ;D
Mount be damned, just as long as I can still use my current lenses with or without an adaptor, with no compromise to their functioning.
In other words, I think the choice of mount is one of the least important considerations if they want to sell me* one.
*(me means me, it does not mean millions of users. In fact it doesn't even mean two users. It just means me, myself, since I can only express my own views relative to myself. Anti-Neuro disclaimer over)
Battery life is as good or better than that of a dslr
Ergonomics and controls are similar to that of a dslr
Viewfinder lag is similar or better than that of an OVF ;D
Mount be damned, just as long as I can still use my current lenses with or without an adaptor, with no compromise to their functioning.
In other words, I think the choice of mount is one of the least important considerations if they want to sell me* one.
*(me means me, it does not mean millions of users. In fact it doesn't even mean two users. It just means me, myself, since I can only express my own views relative to myself. Anti-Neuro disclaimer over)
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