Canon Gets 300mm Creative

[neuroanatomist]

I still have yet to see a soul use an extender out in the field.

I guess you must take pictures in a really small field.

 

[kaihp]

The sweet spot for integrated teleconverters is the 400mm f2.8. With a 1.4 it's close to a 600/f4 and with a 2x it's a 800/f5.6. You get a small lens package, that is light and easly to lug about (compared with the 600/4) and the 400/2.8 has a much closer MFD which some times helps.

The EF 200-400mm is anything but light and easy to lug around. But then I have only rented a 600mm once for a specific event (Red Bull Diving Cup) a couple of years ago.

If I keep using the 200-400 for a period of time, I always get pleasantly surprised at how short, light and handy the EF 300mm f/2.8L feels when I pick it up. And it pairs beautifully with the 2x TC (contrary to most other lenses).

 

[neonlight]

(for example, a 400/2.8 is letting in a lot more light than a 100/2.8 because it has a much larger entrance pupil, but with both lenses set to f/2.8 the exposure will be the same).

But the 400 is collecting light from a narrower field of view. So for a uniform field illumination the f- number works: the 100/2.8 is collecting light over a larger angle.

 

[juststeve]

My original point seems to have been missed. While the lens patent is for 295 mm or so, the optics of the lens are crammed into a length of 184 mm, with the exception of what appears to be the insertable filter. That is very compact. Those hunks of glass still need to be 70 mm or so from the image plane but that is what makes the insertable tele converter possible. It seems to me to make the lens optics that compact will take some special optical trickery, like diffractive optics. If you go to the actual patent you will see other 300/2.8 lens designs which are much more like the EF 300/2.8 ii. The glass in those designs is spread out much more the length of the lens. But an insertable tele converter would not be possible.

 

[neuroanatomist]

But the 400 is collecting light from a narrower field of view. So for a uniform field illumination the f- number works: the 100/2.8 is collecting light over a larger angle.

Yes, that was the point.

 

[neuroanatomist]

My original point seems to have been missed. While the lens patent is for 295 mm or so, the optics of the lens are crammed into a length of 184 mm, with the exception of what appears to be the insertable filter. That is very compact. Those hunks of glass still need to be 70 mm or so from the image plane but that is what makes the insertable tele converter possible. It seems to me to make the lens optics that compact will take some special optical trickery, like diffractive optics. If you go to the actual patent you will see other 300/2.8 lens designs which are much more like the EF 300/2.8 ii. The glass in those designs is spread out much more the length of the lens. But an insertable tele converter would not be possible.

This is the patent diagram aligned with the EF 300/2.8 block diagram at the front element, with the front element diameters matched.



There's about the same amount of glass in the rearward groups (behind the aperture stop). Stronger converging lenses in front of the aperture stop in the patent enable the rearward groups (and the aperture stop itself) to be shifted forward, essentially relocating the empty space that is in front of the aperture in the EF 300/2.8 II to the back. That, combined with the extra space because the patented design is longer (and remember that the flange distance is 24 mm shorter with RF), allow room for the TC elements to drop in. No special optical trickery required.

 

[Canis Lupus]

I would rather see an RF 500 or 600 f4 with inbuilt extender, as the Nikon Nikkor Z 600mm f/4 TC VR S. Canon should have had this a long time ago, and one reason I would have choosen Nikon today, if I had started at scratch. To just flip in and out the tc is very different from changing a separate TC in field. I guess the quality could gain some steps too.

​

 

[juststeve]

Neuro, great you matched the front element diameters. Had that thought but too many other things on the agenda. To my eye there is more curvature to the EF lens front cell, but there is one more element, 8 vs. 7, in the patent lens. The section behind the diaphragm is interesting with more, 10 vs 8, elements but thinner, lighter looking elements. Also, seems to be less curvature to the patent lens elements. And, lastly, my estimate of distance of filter to image plane is a wee bit over 37 mm, which I believe is enough to allow use of the present tele converters.

 

[Richard CR]

Neuro, great you matched the front element diameters. Had that thought but too many other things on the agenda. To my eye there is more curvature to the EF lens front cell, but there is one more element, 8 vs. 7, in the patent lens. The section behind the diaphragm is interesting with more, 10 vs 8, elements but thinner, lighter looking elements. Also, seems to be less curvature to the patent lens elements. And, lastly, my estimate of distance of filter to image plane is a wee bit over 37 mm, which I believe is enough to allow use of the present tele converters.

you can't take the embodiment diagrams to that level of scale. They are only there to show the rough approximation.

 

[David - Sydney]

i personally think the nikkor 7.5mm is the coolest lens ever.

but i digress.

I am enjoying the Astrhori 6/2.8 at the moment

 

[Chig]

The sweet spot for integrated teleconverters is the 400mm f2.8. With a 1.4 it's close to a 600/f4 and with a 2x it's a 800/f5.6. You get a small lens package, that is light and easly to lug about (compared with the 600/4) and the 400/2.8 has a much closer MFD which some times helps. Also the brighter optics help if you can move closer to your subject.
Where the 600/f4 kicks it's butt is when you put a 2x on the 600/4 and get a 1200mm f8 (which is well beyond the reach of a 400/2.8) and with a 1.4x to get a similar 800/f5.6 but with less stressed optics, AF and IS.
The problem with 400-600mm zoom designs is that you basically have a 600mm f4 that can go wider, it's not a 400/2.8 that can go longer. So you get the size and heft of the 600mm f4 and not the benefits that a 400/2.8 has. What would be cool is a 400mm f2.8 with an integrated 1.5x TC for a 600mm. The you could pop another 1.4x TC on for more reach and still ahve a small(ish) and more portable rig.

Not sure why you're talking about Zooms "The problem with 400-600mm zoom designs" as I never mentioned any.

My ideas for these Primes with builtin T.C.s is that they would replace the current 600mm f/4 with a 300mm f/2.0 with 1.4x and 2x builtin T.C.s and
the 400mm f/2.8 with a 200mm f/.4 with 1.4x and 2x builtin T.C.s.
This means you'd still have the option of adding external T.C.s as well i.e:

the 200mm f/1.4 (with internal 1.4x and 2x) gives these options

• 200mm f/1.4
• 280mm f/2
• 400mm f/2.8

and w. externals:

• 560mm f/4
• 800mm f/5.6

And the 300mm f/2.0 (with internal 1.4x and 2x):

• 300mm f/2.0
• 420mm f/2.8
• 600mm f/4

w. externals:

• 840mm f/5.6
• 1200mm f/8