Canon High End Mirrorless Camera Talk [CR2]
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privatebydesign said:Peter Souza, Obama's photographer, who has created some absolutely fantastic images had a brief dalliance with Sony, he used 5D models for years but moved to Sony while using the 5D MkIII's which he used a lot. He dropped Sony after less than a year and went to 5D MkIV's.Cthulhu said:ethanz said:Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.
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Humor aside, I figure it's a matter of time until press shifts to quieter cameras for this type of coverage, now that it's available.
he didn't even use sony for that long - a few weeks.
there was only one press photo taken with Sony .. the rest were from the 5D's.
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If Canon is coming out with a high end mirrorless in Q4 of 2018, that's 15-18 months from now, likely 16. They will have certainly set the design by now, and long lead time parts will be on order, it takes on the order of 1 year for some hard tooling, and developing the sensor likely takes longer. We are never getting the latest tech when we buy a new camera model, its always 1-1/2 - 2 years out of date.
If features change between now and the introduction, it will be because they could not be developed in time to meet the schedule. Assembly is going to start 6 months before the first shipments, so there is really about 12 months to get it all done.
If features change between now and the introduction, it will be because they could not be developed in time to meet the schedule. Assembly is going to start 6 months before the first shipments, so there is really about 12 months to get it all done.
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neuroanatomist said:
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While I do understand your skepticism, some recent engineering specs and math equations sent to me by my Germany/Netherlands contacts seems to indicate quite clearly that Canon has solved the write speed/recording format issue quite nicely with the system I saw demonstrated VERY CLEARLY on a recent Skype call.
It definitely looks like the two internal SSD cards and/or the two CFAST cards
are being interleaved for still photo use in RAW and JPEG-2000 modes. At 296 megabytes per frame at 25 fps the RAW frame rate is theoretically 3.7 gigabytes per second per drive or card. EVIDENTLY it seams RAW isn't really *RAW* but rather a modified RAW-lite similar to what's in the recently introduced Canon C200 Cinema camera which is PROBABLY a run-length encoded image format at about a 3:1 to 5:1 compression ratio which means a high of 1.2 gigabytes per second down to as low as 741 megabytes per second. I would expect a large 12 to 16 gigabytes internal RAM buffer would bring buffer write times to around less than 4 seconds in RAW-lite mode. which is enough for a 3-to-4 second burst shooting speed at 25 fps!
Using JPEG-2000 4:4:4 codecs, the compression ratios are down to 10:1 to 15:1 or 370 megabytes per second or as low as 247 megabytes per second for a 50 megapixel image sequence. That is what it looks like the performance parameters are going to be for now! This would seem to indicate that there will be not only two high-speed DIGIC processors onboard but that it was mentioned that two separate FPGA chips (Field Programmable Gate Array) were added to take the compression load off the DIGICs!
Cost-wise that would be less than $400 Euros to add both those powerful FPGA chips, which makes engineering and financial sense to me since FPGA's are ALSO FLASH UPDATEABLE in the field which means NEW codecs could be added later!
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I do have a technical surprise for everyone here since my Germany/Netherland contacts have a specific public reveal/public leak in mind (which they haven't told me about yet!) but it seems they want to do something just before the International Broadcasters Convention (IBC) which is 14-to-19 September 2017 in Amsterdam.
It seems they have certain imagery and documents which they will release then which will remove all doubt about their claims! They were SUPPOSED to release this just after NAB 2017 but that did not happen! We shall see!!!
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Again, I truly do understand and am very sympathetic to your skepticism (I WOULD BE TOO!) but when a live Skype Stream shows such clear video (I should have done a screen capture!) of such an obvious Canon 1Dx mk2-like Design (it looks VERY DIFFERENT than the recently introduced Canon C200 Cinema EOS camera which has a basic video box look to it!), it means to me something is coming up REAL SOON NOW!
HOW my contacts actually GOT the specifications is very unclear to me but because they are literally electrical/chip engineers and computer scientist professionals, I just cannot easily dismiss their claims. They've been right far too many times within the last 10 years on various product launches for me to say clearly that its all just B.S. !!!
I'm just passing along what I get because I am NOT PART OF their "Team" and I have NO other information as to the HOWS of them getting their clearly high-level technical information! They may have or actually BE the people on the inside! That is only a supposition as I have NO definitive proof ...BUT... I'm personally putting some of that information currency I've gotten INTO THE BANK because I think it's at least 90% true!
And you are right....we shall see soon enough if it's at all true!
HOW my contacts actually GOT the specifications is very unclear to me but because they are literally electrical/chip engineers and computer scientist professionals, I just cannot easily dismiss their claims. They've been right far too many times within the last 10 years on various product launches for me to say clearly that its all just B.S. !!!
I'm just passing along what I get because I am NOT PART OF their "Team" and I have NO other information as to the HOWS of them getting their clearly high-level technical information! They may have or actually BE the people on the inside! That is only a supposition as I have NO definitive proof ...BUT... I'm personally putting some of that information currency I've gotten INTO THE BANK because I think it's at least 90% true!
And you are right....we shall see soon enough if it's at all true!
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docsmith said:Are those necessarily benefits of mirrorless? Seems like several of those are introducing new, and likely complex and expensive, new technologies.Orangutan said:
The standard "pro" list of mirrorless as I know it:
- Bodies can be smaller as you do not need the mirror box.
- Lenses can be placed closer to the sensor as you no longer need to account for space for the mirror. This, in theory, could make lenses a bit smaller. In practice...see the G-series lenses.
But, there does seem to be some benefit if you look at EF-m vs EFs lenses
- FPS would no longer be limited by the motion of the mirror
- Could potentially be much quieter
- Removal of the mirror could result in a cost savings and eliminates a moving part that could fail
- On sensor AF could be wider, covering close to the entire frame
On the "Con" side:
- Many are fine with current dSLR ergonomics and do not want smaller ergonomics
- Smaller body likely equals smaller battery which could impact both number of shots per battery charge and voltage to drive AF
- Until we have a truly rapid global shutter, we will still need a mechanical shutter which will limit FPS
- New lens mount would make all of our current lenses obsolete
- No mirror eliminates the possibility of an optical viewfinder, thus you end up with electric view finders
- Until recently, sensor AF was not as fast as PDAF
I own both. I personally enjoy the 5DIII ergonomics and OVF. Is the market eventually headed mirrorless? Likely, as I hear it will eventually be less expensive to manufacture and the less expensive products do tend to win out in the long run.
But, I am one of those practical people (usually) that buys the best camera available at the time and defines "best" as fitting my personal needs. I own the G7X and M3 for size/weight advantages and the 5DIII for everything else.
Lots of articles out there on this. For example:
https://photographylife.com/mirrorless-vs-dslr
It seems I'm the only person in this world that hates AFMA calibration.
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Jopa said:
No, you're not. I hate it with a passion.
I don't care about zebra/live view/focus peaking/4k video etc.
But I care about AF accuracy. Apart from possible weight/size reduction (not major), this is the single biggest attraction of MILCs to me.
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+1
Interleaving the data across 2 cards is just asking for a trouble... the odds for the data being lost being doubled. Not a single chance Canon will be looking into something like this. Plain crazy (mild statement).
Interleaving the data across 2 cards is just asking for a trouble... the odds for the data being lost being doubled. Not a single chance Canon will be looking into something like this. Plain crazy (mild statement).
neuroanatomist said::
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Thinking of what to expect from a new "high end" Mirrorless from Canon ...
Question : how does in-body stabilization for stills shots actually work ? Its just occurred to me that for video all that is happening is that camera shake is being removed by mapping one frame to the next and aligning the pictures on top of one another ... but for still shots this doesn't make any sense at all. Does it work by gyroscopes allowing the sensor to "float" ? Or what ? Does it actually offer any huge advantage in the way that lens optical stabilization does ?
I would love to hear if anyone knows anything about this ...
thanks
Question : how does in-body stabilization for stills shots actually work ? Its just occurred to me that for video all that is happening is that camera shake is being removed by mapping one frame to the next and aligning the pictures on top of one another ... but for still shots this doesn't make any sense at all. Does it work by gyroscopes allowing the sensor to "float" ? Or what ? Does it actually offer any huge advantage in the way that lens optical stabilization does ?
I would love to hear if anyone knows anything about this ...
thanks
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> Interleaving the data across 2 cards is just asking for a trouble...
There are two types of data loss:
One is when your card fails and you lose data that you have recorded.
The other, less obvious, is the loss of a shot because your buffer is full and you are cannot therefore record it to card.
While it certainly shouldn't be the default, I can see a good case for a system where, for example, during shooting photos are written alternatively to each of the cards in order to maximise throughput and therefore increase the number of shots that can be taken before your buffer fills up.
A background task would then at low priority mirror the shots between the two cards so that they are not written concurrently but delayed.
As I said, many people would not trust this. But for some people this may be essential to get the performance out of the camera they need. So why not make it an option?
There are two types of data loss:
One is when your card fails and you lose data that you have recorded.
The other, less obvious, is the loss of a shot because your buffer is full and you are cannot therefore record it to card.
While it certainly shouldn't be the default, I can see a good case for a system where, for example, during shooting photos are written alternatively to each of the cards in order to maximise throughput and therefore increase the number of shots that can be taken before your buffer fills up.
A background task would then at low priority mirror the shots between the two cards so that they are not written concurrently but delayed.
As I said, many people would not trust this. But for some people this may be essential to get the performance out of the camera they need. So why not make it an option?
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You loose a few a shots due to the buffer is full and you loose entire content of the card due to the card failure.
this is an extreme risk as the data being spanned across 2 cards and each card contains half of the entire data only. Most people would not have a clue. Canon plays safe. Always.
this is an extreme risk as the data being spanned across 2 cards and each card contains half of the entire data only. Most people would not have a clue. Canon plays safe. Always.
jolyonralph said:
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WOW!mahdi_mak2000 said:
A high end camera with terrible ergonomics and a striking lack of controls..... no thanks!
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Jopa said:If Canon makes a FF mirrorless the first thing I would do is to buy the notorious Sigma 50 Art
I am not entirely certain if Sigma Art lenses fare better on MILCs. Will give it another try in future.
On the other hand, I find STM lenses AF very accurately (including 50 f/1.8 STM) through the OVF on my 77D. Strange
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