Canon is on top again!

[verysimplejason]

Thanks Mikael. My point is, You don't actually need that "fabulous" camera in order to take these pictures. Right? Canon admittedly doesn't have a DR that is up to recent Nikon's (or Sony's) technology. But so what? Any camera as long as you know its limitations can take good pictures. Are you convincing us to buy Nikon instead? For most of us, it doesn't matter. I like Canon's button arrangement and access to other functionality better than Nikon. For some reason, I also happen to like Canon's lenses better than Nikon except the 18-55mm. That can be reason enough to buy Canon. For some it's not. Of course, if somebody just give me a Nikon D800 for example, I will accept it wholeheartedly but without lenses, I'll gladly exchange it with a 5D2 + lenses or a 5D3. I think that reflects what most fellow photographers here are feeling. Only a few here that are already well invested in a system will think of DR or ISO or MP as their most singular reason to switch systems. If you're a new user then the decision will change a lot but saying that, there are still other things beyond the sensor to consider.

 

[Fishnose]

Fascinating, isn't it - people get bored with trolling comments, responses wane, and it's misinterpreted. :

LOL, Mikael is hardly a troll. Slightly abrasive maybe.
If that's your definition of a troll you haven't spent much time on the web.

 

[nicku]

With the EOS 1Dx, Canon has the best AF (after the f/8 focusing and black focus point fix), best frame rates, best low light ever, and of course the best pro sensor according to the rumored DxO leaks.

And it sucks for those using lower tiered Canon products with older sensor tech, but Canon's flagship has certainly been crowned the undisputed king of pro bodies. Hopefully now the lower tiered products get the same superior sensor in the future. May be 6D is that breed of new superior sensors coming out. Watch out sonikon, Canon is back with a vengeance!

looooool.... yes Canon 1Dx is better in terms of features packed in the camera ( like frame rate, AF, etc...) but is not better than Nikon ( D4) in high ISO performance...

Regarding the lower pro bodies like D800 vs 5D3 and D600 vs 6D ( witch is a joke) Nikon definitely wins ( from my business point of view).

If Canon release the Megapixel monster in a 1D body at a astronomic price (over 1Dx).... than definitely my next camera will be the king of all around FF.... Nikon D800.

 

[dslr-preview]

? What to celebrate?

For many the 1dx is financially out of reach
Canon dared to release once the 5DMII with the very old AF system of the 5 D meaning from R&D process point of view it took nearly a decade to come up with something better for the 5D series !!!

But what is the better now:

- canon dares again to come up with a sensor on the 5DMIII, wich is marginally better compared to the old model 5DMII
- the AF system misses out a capability already being available on the Nikon 700 e.g. , namely the tracking system making sure you won't loose the phocus on many shots of movement
- thus even if one or the other shot may succeed , you can never be sure and once the 5D III gets the focus wrong in AI SERVO it takes many frames to be in focus again or not at all
- the metering system is not working nicely too - see dpreview comparison 1d MiV vs 5D MIII

- HDR modus ??? who needs that in professional workflows where CS versions have nice HDR modules
- double exposer, Jesus we did that in analogue times on cams costing as much as 300 Euro

Thus the camera most important for many of us, the new 5D III is nothing else but a model stripped down in the essentials - the last 5D : no good AF , this 5D : no real sensor improvement , no credible movement AF, still incredible long times in Life-View....

Meanwhile we have from competitors other data:
- Sony coming up in the A99 with the 24 MB sensor also used in Nikon 600 - according to DXO optics on the level of a Phase One middle format - noise.... where
- Fuji 1xpro, the APSC sensor delivers even on 6400 photos as cristal sharp and noiseless as a NIKON D4
- Sony delivering cameras with semi-permanent mirror, thus 10 pix / sec , obviously much more effortless
- Sony delivers a permanent live view which focusses fast

So maybe in the one or other report Canon got credits for the 1DX, but besides of that innovation is meanwhile found in other places and the marketing strategy of Canon plays for sure not into the pockets of their clients ...thus one could regret to have once started with that system

With the EOS 1Dx, Canon has the best AF (after the f/8 focusing and black focus point fix), best frame rates, best low light ever, and of course the best pro sensor according to the rumored DxO leaks.

And it sucks for those using lower tiered Canon products with older sensor tech, but Canon's flagship has certainly been crowned the undisputed king of pro bodies. Hopefully now the lower tiered products get the same superior sensor in the future. May be 6D is that breed of new superior sensors coming out. Watch out sonikon, Canon is back with a vengeance!

 

[nicku]

? What to celebrate?

For many the 1dx is financially out of reach
Canon dared to release once the 5DMII with the very old AF system of the 5 D meaning from R&D process point of view it took nearly a decade to come up with something better for the 5D series !!!

But what is the better now:

- canon dares again to come up with a sensor on the 5DMIII, wich is marginally better compared to the old model 5DMII
- the AF system misses out a capability already being available on the Nikon 700 e.g. , namely the tracking system making sure you won't loose the phocus on many shots of movement
- thus even if one or the other shot may succeed , you can never be sure and once the 5D III gets the focus wrong in AI SERVO it takes many frames to be in focus again or not at all
- the metering system is not working nicely too - see dpreview comparison 1d MiV vs 5D MIII

- HDR modus ??? who needs that in professional workflows where CS versions have nice HDR modules
- double exposer, Jesus we did that in analogue times on cams costing as much as 300 Euro

Thus the camera most important for many of us, the new 5D III is nothing else but a model stripped down in the essentials - the last 5D : no good AF , this 5D : no real sensor improvement , no credible movement AF, still incredible long times in Life-View....

Meanwhile we have from competitors other data:
- Sony coming up in the A99 with the 24 MB sensor also used in Nikon 600 - according to DXO optics on the level of a Phase One middle format - noise.... where
- Fuji 1xpro, the APSC sensor delivers even on 6400 photos as cristal sharp and noiseless as a NIKON D4
- Sony delivering cameras with semi-permanent mirror, thus 10 pix / sec , obviously much more effortless
- Sony delivers a permanent live view which focusses fast

So maybe in the one or other report Canon got credits for the 1DX, but besides of that innovation is meanwhile found in other places and the marketing strategy of Canon plays for sure not into the pockets of their clients ...thus one could regret to have once started with that system

With the EOS 1Dx, Canon has the best AF (after the f/8 focusing and black focus point fix), best frame rates, best low light ever, and of course the best pro sensor according to the rumored DxO leaks.

And it sucks for those using lower tiered Canon products with older sensor tech, but Canon's flagship has certainly been crowned the undisputed king of pro bodies. Hopefully now the lower tiered products get the same superior sensor in the future. May be 6D is that breed of new superior sensors coming out. Watch out sonikon, Canon is back with a vengeance!

As a 10 years Canon user.....unfortunately i must agree with you.

Canon has and still have the best quality lenses .... but the bodies are under competition ( with the exception of 1Dx)

 

[K-amps]

That graph looks more like a middle aged man's lack of erectile function plotted over time on the X axis .... Looks like the 1Dx enjoys one blip of "action" before he dies...

 

[Razor2012]

With the EOS 1Dx, Canon has the best AF (after the f/8 focusing and black focus point fix), best frame rates, best low light ever, and of course the best pro sensor according to the rumored DxO leaks.


well , I think you'll be surprised, that rumors is planted
B.Claff has estimated the 1dx figures , and he has done that many times with other cameras/sensors and been right every time

If we are going to use DxO figures then we should use them all the time for every camera, not just when it's convenient.

 

[pierceography]

Fascinating, isn't it - people get bored with trolling comments, responses wane, and it's misinterpreted. :

LOL, Mikael is hardly a troll. Slightly abrasive maybe.
If that's your definition of a troll you haven't spent much time on the web.

Or perhaps you haven't spent enough time reading Mikael's comments in other threads in this forum.

According to Mikael, sensor performance is everything and we should disregard all other aspects of photography.

But beating dead horses with shallow and stubborn subjectiveness definitely isn't the trait of a troll. Oh wait...

 

[Razor2012]

Fascinating, isn't it - people get bored with trolling comments, responses wane, and it's misinterpreted. :

LOL, Mikael is hardly a troll. Slightly abrasive maybe.
If that's your definition of a troll you haven't spent much time on the web.

Or perhaps you haven't spent enough time reading Mikael's comments in other threads in this forum.

According to Mikael, sensor performance is everything and we should disregard all other aspects of photography.

But beating dead horses with shallow and stubborn subjectiveness definitely isn't the trait of a troll. Oh wait...

It's one thing to make a point and to bring some good facts to the table, but to keep on flooding the forum with negativity is a bit much...leave that dead horse alone already.

 

[Loswr]

troll /trōl/ (noun) someone who posts inflammatory messages in an online forum with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

not a troll /nät ā trōl/ (noun) someone who posts inflammatory messages in an online forum with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, but I happen to agree with the messages/posts.

 

[pierceography]

Fascinating, isn't it - people get bored with trolling comments, responses wane, and it's misinterpreted. :

LOL, Mikael is hardly a troll. Slightly abrasive maybe.
If that's your definition of a troll you haven't spent much time on the web.

Or perhaps you haven't spent enough time reading Mikael's comments in other threads in this forum.

According to Mikael, sensor performance is everything and we should disregard all other aspects of photography.

But beating dead horses with shallow and stubborn subjectiveness definitely isn't the trait of a troll. Oh wait...

how can you get to it as like that? Many people including you have difficulty to understand and also to separate things

Well, I'm sure you'll tell me another 20 times in one thread. So maybe I'll get it by then. Or (more likely) I already get it, and don't care for your "here's my opinion, agree with me or else" flood tactics.

 

[RLPhoto]

With the EOS 1Dx, Canon has the best AF (after the f/8 focusing and black focus point fix), best frame rates, best low light ever, and of course the best pro sensor according to the rumored DxO leaks.

And it sucks for those using lower tiered Canon products with older sensor tech, but Canon's flagship has certainly been crowned the undisputed king of pro bodies. Hopefully now the lower tiered products get the same superior sensor in the future. May be 6D is that breed of new superior sensors coming out. Watch out sonikon, Canon is back with a vengeance!

It is the best Pro camera ever made so far. Its a shame that I'll never own/use/need a 1D series camera. Perhaps a New 1Ds series camera might sway me.

 

[RLPhoto]

Now your getting the idea. ;D

 

[K-amps]

troll /trōl/ (noun) someone who posts inflammatory messages in an online forum with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

not a troll /nät ā trōl/ (noun) someone who posts inflammatory messages in an online forum with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, but I happen to agree with the messages/posts.

Brilliant !! ;D

 

[jrista]

troll /trōl/ (noun) someone who posts inflammatory messages in an online forum with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

not a troll /nät ā trōl/ (noun) someone who posts inflammatory messages in an online forum with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, but I happen to agree with the messages/posts.

Brilliant !! ;D

Wow, I think you actually started a technical debate about the merits of being a troll, what powers trolls have, and what kinds of materials and magic can stop trolls....how ironic is THAT!! ;D

 

[well_dunno]

On a separate note, according to wikipedia, Social competence is a complex, multidimensional concept consisting of social, emotional (e.g., affect regulation), cognitive (e.g., fund of information, skills for processing/acquisition, perspective taking), and behavioral (e.g., conversation skills, prosocial behavior) skills, as well as motivational and expectancy sets (e.g., moral development, self-efficacy) needed for successful social adaptation.

Perhaps suggesting other forum members are ignorant or in denial or they do not understand things is not the best way to have a decent conversation?

 

[pierceography]

I called it open minded, and not rigid and denialing
and some Troll descriptions fits better into a denialing fan boy

because they can not, for example cross furrows in a field but must go along.
or that a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence

Ok, seriously Mikael... you're getting annoying. Neuro has pointed out numerous times that most in this forum have accepted the fact that Nikon sensors out perform Canon sensors. I'm including myself in this.

So bearing that in mind, what exactly are we in denial about? Sounds to me like you're simply bitter and want company in your anguish over your opinions on Canon vs Nikon. Sorry, pal... Nikon sensor performance aside, there are MANY other reasons why I love Canon and will continue to stick with them.

And call me or anyone else that doesn't share your pessimism a fanboy all you want... but a least I'm realistic and keep an open mind.

Too bad this isn't IRC... a nice /kb would certainly be in order.

 

[verysimplejason]

Thanks Mikael. My point is, You don't actually need that "fabulous" camera in order to take these pictures. Right? Canon admittedly doesn't have a DR that is up to recent Nikon's (or Sony's) technology. But so what? Any camera as long as you know its limitations can take good pictures. Are you convincing us to buy Nikon instead? For most of us, it doesn't matter. I like Canon's button arrangement and access to other functionality better than Nikon. For some reason, I also happen to like Canon's lenses better than Nikon except the 18-55mm. That can be reason enough to buy Canon. For some it's not. Of course, if somebody just give me a Nikon D800 for example, I will accept it wholeheartedly but without lenses, I'll gladly exchange it with a 5D2 + lenses or a 5D3. I think that reflects what most fellow photographers here are feeling. Only a few here that are already well invested in a system will think of DR or ISO or MP as their most singular reason to switch systems. If you're a new user then the decision will change a lot but saying that, there are still other things beyond the sensor to consider.

You seems not understand what I mean, with Sony's new sensors and 14 stops av DR there are a dimension further, you can use the camera in a different way, you can underexpose to provide headroom, your ability to correct the image is much larger in the high light area and so in the middle tones and shadows = high dynamic range
wit out any banding and noise

Look, I understand what you are saying. Yup, HDR is very useful for IQ, shooting headroom, etc, but you should also understand that it's not the only thing that photographers will be looking for in a camera body. I've already given some of the important points to consider in a camera body and yet you still would want to highlight DR. I think that's why a lot of forumers here are resenting your comments. It's already accepted that HDR is important, (very important) but there are other considerations in a camera body. Please don't beat a dead horse more than once. If you really want Nikon or Sony because of their outstanding sensor then it's alright. Nobody will tell you it's wrong. But for most of us, there are other reasons why we're using Canon even if it does not perform better in its DR against Nikon and Sony. I hope my mentioning the importance of DR is enough.

 

[nicku]

I have read careful the thread... in the last page many people are discussing about the 1Dx performance; Yes, 1Dx is a very, very good camera... but i believe 90% of the forum readers consider the Canon flagship out of their reach or too expensive for their needs (including me).

I use the DSLR in light controlled situations , 95% under ISO 320, In studio, commercial, portraits and stock photography. In my work field size matters ( I mean MP )... high ISO performance , frame rate are not so important. What should i choose ?? 5D3 or D800?...

I believe Nikon answer to the majority of my needs.

If canon release the MP monster in 1D body ; than certainly the price tag will be around $9000. In this case what will stop many pros for getting a Pentax 645d Medium format instead of a Canon FF with same resolution?? The IQ will be incomparably.

 

[verysimplejason]

I have read careful the thread... in the last page many people are discussing about the 1Dx performance; Yes, 1Dx is a very, very good camera... but i believe 90% of the forum readers consider the Canon flagship out of their reach or too expensive for their needs (including me).

I use the DSLR in light controlled situations , 95% under ISO 320, In studio, commercial, portraits and stock photography. In my work field size matters ( I mean MP )... high ISO performance , frame rate are not so important. What should i choose ?? 5D3 or D800?...

I believe Nikon answer to the majority of my needs.

If canon release the MP monster in 1D body ; than certainly the price tag will be around $9000. In this case what will stop many pros for getting a Pentax 645d Medium format instead of a Canon FF with same resolution?? The IQ will be incomparably.

If you really believe Nikon D800 is the right tool for you then go ahead. It will be a great tool for you. You just have to ask yourself always, "Is it worth it?" (price, system cost of switching, overall camera comfort of use, build, reliability, etc...). If it's worth it, no statistics or tests should stop you from buying one though I'd say priorities in life always keeps me from buying what I want. It really doesn't matter what tool you used to capture that "moment" or picture you're after. What's important always is your end result. Don't be a pixel peeper like some here. Sometimes, I'm also prone to thinking that way but I try as much as possible to be a real artist which all photographers ideally should be.