Is Canon bringing out their cameras in the wrong order?
- Thread starter Frederik_Bo
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Respectfully disagree with the OP here.
If you rollout in reverse as you stated, everyone will sit on their money as they know a better rig is coming afterwards and it might be awesome and cheaper than they guessed. A wait-and-see customer base robs Canon of the first 6 months of full price buyers, when they presumably have the highest margins.
It also tells the highest paying customers that they get the hot new stuff last after all these enthusiasts get it on a less expensive product. (Could you imagine if a 6D2 dropped before the 1DX2 and it had the on-chip ADC hotness before the folks who pony up the big bucks got it?)
Personally, I would not let the specific and nutty case of the 6D sensor improvement over the 5D3 (a) paint a picture that it was a comprehensively better rig than the 5D3 or (b) that 5D3 buyers like myself put their foot through their monitors when the 6D was announced and first reviewed. Far from it -- I wish I had the option for a less expensive full-frame rig, but once I saw the 6D specs, the build quality, reviews, etc. I did not regret my 5D3 purchase at all. The 6D is a clear step down from the 5D3 in a ton of aspects, but folks always get hung up on the sensor. The differences between the sensors are much much smaller than, say, the differences between Canon FF sensors and EXMOR FF sensors.
Consider: Did Nikon D810 owners throw a fit when the later D750 eeked out a slightly better high ISO score or had 6.5 fps? Doubt it. The D810 was still a top drawer professional product in comparison. Products improve over time and lower pecking order products can beat their bigger brothers sometimes in some metrics.
- A
If you rollout in reverse as you stated, everyone will sit on their money as they know a better rig is coming afterwards and it might be awesome and cheaper than they guessed. A wait-and-see customer base robs Canon of the first 6 months of full price buyers, when they presumably have the highest margins.
It also tells the highest paying customers that they get the hot new stuff last after all these enthusiasts get it on a less expensive product. (Could you imagine if a 6D2 dropped before the 1DX2 and it had the on-chip ADC hotness before the folks who pony up the big bucks got it?)
Personally, I would not let the specific and nutty case of the 6D sensor improvement over the 5D3 (a) paint a picture that it was a comprehensively better rig than the 5D3 or (b) that 5D3 buyers like myself put their foot through their monitors when the 6D was announced and first reviewed. Far from it -- I wish I had the option for a less expensive full-frame rig, but once I saw the 6D specs, the build quality, reviews, etc. I did not regret my 5D3 purchase at all. The 6D is a clear step down from the 5D3 in a ton of aspects, but folks always get hung up on the sensor. The differences between the sensors are much much smaller than, say, the differences between Canon FF sensors and EXMOR FF sensors.
Consider: Did Nikon D810 owners throw a fit when the later D750 eeked out a slightly better high ISO score or had 6.5 fps? Doubt it. The D810 was still a top drawer professional product in comparison. Products improve over time and lower pecking order products can beat their bigger brothers sometimes in some metrics.
- A
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Jack Douglas said:
You are 100% correct, not having an illuminated focus point on the 5D4 annoys me to no end, especially when the camera is targeted at people who shoot in low light frequently. The flash of red when the focus point moves is almost more of a taunt than a feature. Aside from that, though, I can't think of much I would like added to the 5D4 from the 1DxII's feature set.
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GHPhotography said:
Meter point following AF point would be nice.
The other factor to this high-end-first update schedule is it allows the more expensive, lower-volume bodies to absorb the cost of new technology, then when the manufacturing process is improved and yields increase and marginal cost comes down the tech hits the higher-volume, lower-price bodies. They probably physically couldn't manufacture enough of the new sensors to roll out the 77D first...
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LonelyBoy said:
I find linked metering to be very helpful ... except if I quickly switch to zone auto for a BIF for example. Chances are the two scenarios are quite incompatible i.e., a bird's head under a spot focus point vs bird under non-centered auto focus points in the sky. Unless there is some way to have exposure compensation that separately covers my three modes of shooting - shutter is auto, BB is servo spot, * is one-shot spot (this seems to be a virtually instantaneous way of switching).
Jack
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LonelyBoy said:
I very much want it for run and gun photo conditions where I have to get it right the first time. In particular, backlit shooting of candids, street, environmental portraiture, etc. in which I want a subject off-center but also want to shoot large enough aperture that spot meter (center, on subject) / focus and then recompose is not preferable. No, I don't want to adopt using BBAF to solve this -- I want to line everything up, meter and focus with an off-center AF point and press the shutter.
As others with 1D rigs have shown, spot meter at any AF point is far from a miracle feature and may lay an egg and require quick chimping & reshooting anyway, but any little bit of assistance with this style of shooting would help. It is shocking how simple, easy and satisfying this functionality is on my iPhone today.
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I almost dont know who to reply to first and how.
Let me start by saying that I get, that canon is a big company with a lot of smart people and chances are, that they have good reason, for bringing out products in the order they do. However big companies with a lot of smart people do make mistakes. Som times they even go bankrupt. Anyone remember Kodak and Polaroid? Now I am not saying that Canon is going the way of the dodo.
I brought op the subject of camera release order because it struck me as odd and I wanted to hear peoples perspective. Also thought I saw a potential connection to the perceived nerfing of cameras, that som people expect is going on.
There has been a lot of great perspectives. So thanks
I still dont know if I am entirely convinced canon is doing the right thing though.
Well I kinda think, that the current order of releases incentivizes sitting on your money. I for one, am sitting on my money to see if the 6d mark II is going to do everything that I need it to do, or if I will have to buy a 5d mark VI. You reversed the order and I would be able to buy a 6d II now, at full price, if it met my requirements. If it did not, I could be pretty confident, that the an upcoming 5d IV or higher end model would meet set requirements.
So only in the case where the 6d mark II does not meet my requirements will I have an incentive to sit on my money and wait. As is now. I know that the 5d mark IV lives up to my requirements, but I dont know abut the 6D Mark II. So I wait.
I dont think people are waiting to see if a higher end model is going to be better. They Know it is, but I guess you could argue that, som would wait and see if a higher end model is going to be so much better, that it is worth the ekstra money.
No matter the order, there are probably going to be people like me that, will sit on there money. I dont know witch order would minimize this problem the moste.
As I have pointed out. In the reversed order however, the tech difference between cameras of the same generation would presumably be bigger. This in turn makes the difference in price, better reflect the difference in tech.
This problem of people sitting on there money, really is a general problem of economics. Future products are always going to be both cheeper and better then current once. This I partly why central banks like to have som inflation in the money supply. If our money keeps loosing value, we will have a greater incentive to spend them quickly. But I digress
Well actually that seems pretty natural to me. As I pointed out. When tech moves forward. It both becomes better an cheeper. There is no doubt in my mind that we will, at som point have a camera, that is priced like the 6d but is as capeble as a current 1DX2. In fact if camera generations were fare enough between, one would expect the lowest end model of the newest generation to be on pare with the highest end model, of the privies generation. What does not seem natural to me, is to have a cheeper camera of the same generation out perform a more expensive one, at least in som respects.
Let me start by saying that I get, that canon is a big company with a lot of smart people and chances are, that they have good reason, for bringing out products in the order they do. However big companies with a lot of smart people do make mistakes. Som times they even go bankrupt. Anyone remember Kodak and Polaroid? Now I am not saying that Canon is going the way of the dodo.
I brought op the subject of camera release order because it struck me as odd and I wanted to hear peoples perspective. Also thought I saw a potential connection to the perceived nerfing of cameras, that som people expect is going on.
There has been a lot of great perspectives. So thanks
I still dont know if I am entirely convinced canon is doing the right thing though. Well I kinda think, that the current order of releases incentivizes sitting on your money. I for one, am sitting on my money to see if the 6d mark II is going to do everything that I need it to do, or if I will have to buy a 5d mark VI. You reversed the order and I would be able to buy a 6d II now, at full price, if it met my requirements. If it did not, I could be pretty confident, that the an upcoming 5d IV or higher end model would meet set requirements.
So only in the case where the 6d mark II does not meet my requirements will I have an incentive to sit on my money and wait. As is now. I know that the 5d mark IV lives up to my requirements, but I dont know abut the 6D Mark II. So I wait.
I dont think people are waiting to see if a higher end model is going to be better. They Know it is, but I guess you could argue that, som would wait and see if a higher end model is going to be so much better, that it is worth the ekstra money.
No matter the order, there are probably going to be people like me that, will sit on there money. I dont know witch order would minimize this problem the moste.
As I have pointed out. In the reversed order however, the tech difference between cameras of the same generation would presumably be bigger. This in turn makes the difference in price, better reflect the difference in tech.
This problem of people sitting on there money, really is a general problem of economics. Future products are always going to be both cheeper and better then current once. This I partly why central banks like to have som inflation in the money supply. If our money keeps loosing value, we will have a greater incentive to spend them quickly. But I digress
Well actually that seems pretty natural to me. As I pointed out. When tech moves forward. It both becomes better an cheeper. There is no doubt in my mind that we will, at som point have a camera, that is priced like the 6d but is as capeble as a current 1DX2. In fact if camera generations were fare enough between, one would expect the lowest end model of the newest generation to be on pare with the highest end model, of the privies generation. What does not seem natural to me, is to have a cheeper camera of the same generation out perform a more expensive one, at least in som respects.
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