Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R5 C

[cayenne]

No IBIS. That's a good thing according to most of what the video guys post, but the one thing that will make a stills guy really have to think hard deciding between R5 and R5C.

And the price was on the low end of the predictions! For like the first time ever! Seems like a real beast of a body at that price.

Brian

Yup...that was me on the IBIS thing.

Until that blurb, I was thinking "ok, aside from a bit extra bulk and maybe a bit of weight gain...why would I take a R5 over a R5C?

Why not keep IBIS functionality in the camera I wonder...I mean, IBIS can be turned off you know?

cayenne

 

[cayenne]

"Proper stills" Tell that to many professional photographers that shoot medium, large format, and film. Cameras are niche devices. All of them. As if saying a "proper guitar" or proper paint brush.

Really?

My medium format GFX100 has IBIS....hell, it would be a bit of a pain to shoot that beast without it if hand held in many situations.

Its a valid gripe, in this day in age. IMHO.


C

 

[twoheadedboy]

Wow - thats all I can say at this point.
I was so looking forward to this camera, and everything in the video was going great - until, of course, he started saying "the still imaging features and operation of the EOS R5C are nearly identical".. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop after that. I had long predicted that IBIS would likely not make it in this camera, due to Canon's past practices of subtracting features in order to differentiate their product line. And of course, its missing. And Ill say it now - without IBIS, this camera is junk.

For me, this is really depressing. I'm still using my 5D Mark III from 10 years ago - not because I can't afford to buy another camera - but because I haven't found a camera that Canon has yet made that checks off all the boxes I need. All I've been waiting for since the beginning is a proper hybrid - a photo-video shooting product. Without IBIS, this product simply can't compete in the photography realm.

And when Canon inconsistently applies IBIS to their products, it also creates overall inconsistency with product expectations. For instance, Sony has IBIS in all of their pro models, including their video-oriented a7S III (!). This means that when you stick on a lens between an a7S, an a7R, an a7, an a9 or an a1, you know how the lens and body will give you a stabilized image, since all of these models have in-body stabilization. With Canon, there's no such consistency - you still have the EOS R and RP models without in-body stabilization, the R5/R6/R3 with stabilization, and now the R5C without - its really inconsistent, and it makes this complicated for the end user. For instance, should I buy the 24-70 f2.8 lens with in-lens stabilization, or the 28-70 f2 without? On a R3/R5/R6, this doesn't matter since the in-body stabilization is great and both lenses will perform great. But now on a R5C, suddenly that in-lens stabilization is a requirement.

As is always the case when Canon releases a new product and subtracts desired features, I see folks on here trying to defend the decisions - either by stating videographers don't need IBIS or that Canon came through on the price. I would gladly had paid more money for a more complete product. And not everyone uses gimbals for stabilization! And lastly, these cameras are expensive!

For context - I'm in Canada, so a R5C plus battery grip, extra battery, 512 GB CExpress card, RF-EF adapter plus 24-70 f2.8 lens would cost nearly $10K Canadian. If I'm paying that much for a camera, it had better be perfect. No missing features. Right now, for me, this camera is a non-starter, and I am left to ponder whether Canon will ever release a product free from feature subtraction/crippling/etc.

Also please note that this continued issue of feature subtraction/crippling is uniquely a Canon issue. I don't know any other company that does this. Certainly, Sony and Nikon do not. They both put their best foot forward in releasing the best products that people want to buy without the need to diminish features. Canon on the other hand keeps on doing the same thing again and again - releasing products with key features subtracted, forcing you to buy MORE products.

And its sad because I feel that Canon doesn't understand customer needs. More photographers shoot video (in addition to photos) than ever before. Many people brought this up when the original overheating issues concerning the R5 came up. All Canon needed to do was respect the wishes of hybrid shooters and actually create a camera that meets both target needs, which Sony, and now Nikon with the Z9, have done.

This ongoing issue with Canon has just gotten too ridiculous for me. But in hindsight, I suppose this was bound to happen. Canon's real reason for crippling appears to be keeping the Cinema EOS line well protected, and they just released the C70 last year. So I'm not sure where this product was ever going to fit. Perhaps what would have been better is for Canon to release a proper R5 Mark II that fixed all of these issues. And perhaps that R5 Mark II may end up being the true spiritual successor to one of the last "perfect" products that Canon made 12 years ago - the 5D Mark II.

Some other issues that folks have brought up about this camera:
- It just looks weird from a design standpoint
- The totally separate video/photo UI is weird and feels like Canon just frankensteined the whole thing together. My 10-year-old 5D Mark III switches from video to photo mode at anytime without time delay. Why does this product have to be so different?
- Lack of full-sized HDMI

So I guess now, I wait for the R1? And likely a $10-13K price tag all in with lenses/cards/battery/etc? Sigh!

So let me get this straight - you've been shooting a body w/o IBIS for a decade, but the lack of IBIS in this body is a dealbreaker? And the R5 isn't an option for you because...?

 

[BakaBokeh]

Okay so after letting the information process, quick thoughts:

• Yes it was gut punch to hear no IBIS and tiny HDMI. But those are probably due to expectations. You expected the IBIS because the R5 had it. You expected the full size HDMI because that's what Craig said it was rumored to have. But after the collective "awwwww" I don't think it's that bad, which I'll get to.
• Unlimited 8K60. Just wow. Don't let the "crippling" distract you from what a technological feat that is.
• Plus all those other shooting modes and the video menu features.
• I went on a rollercoaster of reactions to the photo/video switch. Happy to see the old video and photo toggle switch. Had a holdup moment when it said it takes 8 seconds to boot up to either mode. Then had an "oh I see" moment when I found out the menu systems are different for both modes. Photo mode is more like traditional R5. Video mode is more like C70. Plus I feel like firmware will cut down this boot up time down in the future.
• Engineer in me sees all the design decisions that had to be made and I feel like they came to an acceptable compromise. It was like they said here's 3 things: 1) Unlimited Video in all modes 2) Full Size HDMI port and IBIS and 3) Low Cost. Now Choose Two. I know I'm distilling it down quite a bit, but assume that's the discussion when in the room with all the decision makers... and I'm glad they did it that way.
• I'm less angry about the Micro HDMI now than I was about it when the R5 released. Why? Because I already have the cables when I bought them for the R5. And I haven't broken anything yet. So this is a "who cares" for me.
• IBIS. I have to wait and see before I can render final judgement on this. But I think I will be fine with it's removal. I love the IBIS on the R5. It really is special when shooting video and magical when shooting stills especially in lowlight. However it isn't perfect either, and after thinking about it, the R5C actually hits a sweet spot that the R5 doesn't. What you can't do on the R5 is use the Optical Image Stabilization without IBIS. Why would you want to do that? Because when you do, it introduces the wobbles on ultra-wide angle lenses for most users. Many have asked for the option, but for whatever reason Canon can't do it. Maybe it's segmentation and that would suck, but if the R5C's ability to just use OIS is used, wobbles go away (allegedly/hopefully). That was a death knell on the R5 for several videographers. The other thing is the body still has EIS, which is allegedly improved enough where it was acceptable to eliminate IBIS.
• Unlike what several are conjecturing here, I do not agree that heat was the reason IBIS was removed. Some modifications have demonstrated that the R5 can run "unlimited" with some kind of heat management. I think it just goes back to design decision. I think it's more likely that Canon was just asking, how can we get this Camera at this price point? I think that's where IBIS got the axe. Because I do think they could have put IBIS in, and they could have provided a mechanism to lock the IBIS, but that is adding a lot more cost. I feel like the marketing guys overwhelmingly supported the $4499 price point. I do think more people will buy this than if it was $1000 or even $500 more.
• I know battery life is going to suck, but at least you aren't dead in the water. A grip will help, and PD battery bank will work. Plus you can plug into an outlet if you have that option. Would it have been nice to use the R3/1D battery or maybe a BP like the c70? Yes but then the compact size is no more. You can add battery life to an R5C, you can't remove bulk from a C70 or ungrip a R3/1D.
• Based on the "compromises" I have found I love this Camera paired with an R5. In a perfect world they'd be the same camera. But essentially, the R5 is an amazing photo camera (because of IBIS) that can shoot great video for a bit. The R5C is kind of the flip of that. I guess it's fine for my workflow, because that's how I operate anyway. I never go out and say, I'm gonna do 50/50 video and photo. I actually set out with the intent of doing one or the other, and like to have the option to switch it up when needed. If I need to do both in an instant, like doing an event, I'd keep both bodies hanging off me anyway. Not for everybody, but I'm really liking the R5C after first impressions. I do want to see more reviews, and experience using it myself, but feel like I am going to love this camera.

 

[Respinder]

You need unlimited 8k long take recording and IBIS? Really? 4k recording with IBIS isn't enough? Short run 8k recording with IBIS isn't enough? What are you filming that you absolutely need unlimited 8k long takes...but also IBIS...so neither the R5 nor the R5c meet your needs? And you need this so bad...you're still using a 5D mark III with 1080p? You need unlimited 8k with IBIS for your films but you've been getting by, for years, on 1080p with no IBIS?

When the R5/R6 first hit I was one of the people who was very upset over the thermal limits because they made the bodies practically unusable for filming of any kind. Turns out that was bad firmware and Canon fixed it rather quickly. They still have thermal limits, but they aren't that much worse than something like a Fuji X-T4. For the way most films are captured/produced, they work just fine. And if you really need long takes, you can always add an external recorder which you would probably want to do any way for long takes.

The R5c trades IBIS for no thermal limits. They almost certainly had to make that trade off. You've got to get the heat from the sensor to a surface the fan can move air against, and that's a bit difficult when the sensor only has physical contact at four corners. This isn't "cripple hammer", this isn't Canon making a mistake (like firmware 1.0b1) or trying to make your life difficult. It's thermodynamics. And no, I don't want to hear about the A7s III. 12mp readout != 45mp readout. Same thing for a "locked sensor" mode. Even if Canon had that tech ready, it's not as good at transferring heat as you might imagine. You can't apply thermal paste every time the sensor IBIS is locked, nor clean it up when unlocked. And that means you still wouldn't have IBIS in some of the video modes.

The people who actually "need" what this camera can deliver don't care about IBIS. They're using gimbals or any number of stabilizing rigs. This is a camera for professional 8k cinema production. It is not a vlogging camera. It's not even really a hybrid camera. Canon has three of those already.

If you're still shooting a 5D mark III because it meets your needs, fine. It's still a fantastic stills camera. If you're passing up the R5 because you think you need unlimited 8k, and IBIS, and weather sealing...then you're kidding yourself and missing out as a result. If this camera not having IBIS or having stills compromises (i.e. dual-boot) upsets you, then you were never the target market for this camera. You should be looking at the R3, R5, or R6, with or without an external recorder depending on your actual video needs.

I don't need 8K video directly, but I do want the 4K HQ that comes from the 8K sensor. How long can you shoot 4K HQ for? At the R5's launch if I recall it was pretty limited number of minutes you got before the camera overheated. Has this improved?

I also heard of reports where you take a bunch of photos and then switch to video only to find that the R5 won't take any video due to overheating from the photos you've taken. Is this still an issue post firmware? Has this improved?

I'm genuinely asking b/c I have found very little info on these firmware updates and what they're actually doing.. so if I can record up to 25-30min 4k HQ without thermal limits being reached, and if I can freely take a bunch of photos and then switch to video and immediately record 25-30 min 4k HQ without reaching thermal limits, then I'll buy an R5 today!

And just to let you know - I'm willing to trade off on certain things - I'm OK with the micro HDMI for instance, or the 7-8s to switch over from video to photo and vice-versa. But IBIS is something folks need for photos - you know - that other use case that we want to use this camera for. Surely you're not suggesting photographers use a gimbal for photo taking, right?

 

[unfocused]

Same is true for the complaints about the R3, etc.

You and I have been on this forum for as long as anybody and it’s been the same for every Canon camera ever released. Every one is junk because it’s missing some magic spec. When Canon adds that spec there is always a new one that has to be included or the camera is “crippled.”

 

[Sampetra]

Just how would those needing IBIS even survive in the pre stabilized camera world? I know, I know, you can't miss something if it doesn't exist but at least in Stills Land, we were more than fine...we had technique. Maybe it's too much caffeine with some

Right on, we also used to ride horses instead of cars, use carrier pigeons instead of phones, and drink whiskey instead of anesthesia! Who cares if Canon removes features from the R5c that everyone expected it to have and were present in the R5? If anything Canon should remove more!

Geeze, who even needs a camera? Back then we didn't need a machine to capture a moment in time, we had paint... we had technique.

 

[reef58]

I don't need 8K video directly, but I do want the 4K HQ that comes from the 8K sensor. How long can you shoot 4K HQ for? At the R5's launch if I recall it was pretty limited number of minutes you got before the camera overheated. Has this improved?

I also heard of reports where you take a bunch of photos and then switch to video only to find that the R5 won't take any video due to overheating from the photos you've taken. Is this still an issue post firmware? Has this improved?

I'm genuinely asking b/c I have found very little info on these firmware updates and what they're actually doing.. so if I can record up to 25-30min 4k HQ without thermal limits being reached, and if I can freely take a bunch of photos and then switch to video and immediately record 25-30 min 4k HQ without reaching thermal limits, then I'll buy an R5 today!

And just to let you know - I'm willing to trade off on certain things - I'm OK with the micro HDMI for instance, or the 7-8s to switch over from video to photo and vice-versa. But IBIS is something folks need for photos - you know - that other use case that we want to use this camera for. Surely you're not suggesting photographers use a gimbal for photo taking, right?

Overheating can be an issue. Many folks have workarounds. The time limits are improved form the firmware updates. If you want to shoot 15 minutes or so of 8k or HQ4k without an external recorder you may run into some issues. Overall it is a great camera.

 

[reef58]

Right on, we also used to ride horses instead of cars, use carrier pigeons instead of phones, and drink whiskey instead of anesthesia! Who cares if Canon removes features from the R5c that everyone expected it to have and were present in the R5? If anything Canon should remove more!

Geeze, who even needs a camera? Back then we didn't need a machine to capture a moment in time, we had paint... we had technique.

It appears besides the Canon Cinema cameras not having IBIS, but rather digital stabilization, neither does the Red Raptor $25,000, or the Arri Alexa Mini $50,000. These cripple hammers are running amuck.

 

[Respinder]

So let me get this straight - you've been shooting a body w/o IBIS for a decade, but the lack of IBIS in this body is a dealbreaker? And the R5 isn't an option for you because...?

So let's put it a bit differently then.
Say you've driven an older car without a CD player/MP3/SiriusXM/Navigation/etc for years
Now you want to upgrade. You obviously want to upgrade to the latest standards of car technology, right? So why would you buy a new car without all that built in infotainment, even though its now in most cars?
Same applies to IBIS. Its in almost every pro-body ILC. So why omit it here?

Let me ALSO put it another way: Canon did such a good job with IBIS on the R5 that it became the killer app. Now, why would you take the killer app away?

Finally and lastly, if this is a true hybrid, then it must meet photo and video needs. Again, understanding how good Canon's IBIS is, and recognizing that EVERY OTHER Canon R camera will surely get IBIS in the future, how is this particular camera a good solution for photographers who also want good video capabilities? Its not. Its not a hybrid camera.

 

[Respinder]

It appears besides the Canon Cinema cameras not having IBIS, but rather digital stabilization, neither does the Red Raptor $25,000, or the Arri Alexa Mini $50,000. These cripple hammers are running amuck.

But you gotta remember we are looking at a Hybrid camera that is supposed to do both photos and video.
I agree with what you're saying for pure video cams, but this is supposed to be doing BOTH. So lack of IBIS in other Cinema cameras - which just do video - is kinda irrelevant?

 

[slclick]

Right on, we also used to ride horses instead of cars, use carrier pigeons instead of phones, and drink whiskey instead of anesthesia! Who cares if Canon removes features from the R5c that everyone expected it to have and were present in the R5? If anything Canon should remove more!

Geeze, who even needs a camera? Back then we didn't need a machine to capture a moment in time, we had paint... we had technique.

As I expected, you missed a bit relevance between the words which incensed you. Typical here though.

 

[Respinder]

Overheating can be an issue. Many folks have workarounds. The time limits are improved form the firmware updates. If you want to shoot 15 minutes or so of 8k or HQ4k without an external recorder you may run into some issues. Overall it is a great camera.

And this is why I didn't buy an R5.
Yes I know there are workarounds, like removing the battery or pulling all sorts of weird tricks.
But why do I need to do this on a pro body that will cost me at least $10K Canadian when I factor in the body, lens, batteries, battery grip and memory cards?
If I have to spend that amount of coin, I don't want to be dealing with any sort of workarounds to do what I need to do.

 

[tomislavmoze]

I don't need 8K video directly, but I do want the 4K HQ that comes from the 8K sensor. How long can you shoot 4K HQ for? At the R5's launch if I recall it was pretty limited number of minutes you got before the camera overheated. Has this improved?

I also heard of reports where you take a bunch of photos and then switch to video only to find that the R5 won't take any video due to overheating from the photos you've taken. Is this still an issue post firmware? Has this improved?

I'm genuinely asking b/c I have found very little info on these firmware updates and what they're actually doing.. so if I can record up to 25-30min 4k HQ without thermal limits being reached, and if I can freely take a bunch of photos and then switch to video and immediately record 25-30 min 4k HQ without reaching thermal limits, then I'll buy an R5 today!

And just to let you know - I'm willing to trade off on certain things - I'm OK with the micro HDMI for instance, or the 7-8s to switch over from video to photo and vice-versa. But IBIS is something folks need for photos - you know - that other use case that we want to use this camera for. Surely you're not suggesting photographers use a gimbal for photo taking, right?

People here don't understand what hybrid shooting means. Also I know a lot of people that earn good money with filming with sony cameras and they really use the ibis in their video work flow. Not all situations allow you to use gimbals and in that cases ibis can help in reducing time in editing avoiding software stabilisation, also ibis allows using stabilisation without cropping into an image. Thing is that filmmaking has evolved with these small cameras and some principles are not applicable to modern filmmaking. There are so many video and content creators that work as a one man band and relay on the new technologies.

I will get the R5c in about 15 days for a test and decide, between it or the R3 and R5c since R5 and R6 are missing some video features to be a real hybrid systems.
When I saw its only 500 euros more for the R3 I think R3 is a winner.

 

[cayenne]

Almost none of you WERE going to buy this camera. Almost none of you ARE going to buy this camera. Everyone simmer down here. With Canon delivering cameras like the R6, R5, R3, when they produce a product that isn't for me I couldn't care less now because they've addressed the holes in their lineup core where they were lacking. Plus, where did all the "if they added $500 for a model with a fan, I'd definitely buy that" people at? Oh wait, people just say stuff.

Actually...if this thing had IBIS.
I'd pull the trigger right now.

I'm on the sidelines waiting....thinking R5, but this one almost checked the boxes I was waiting for.

At this point, I'll decide if to wait a bit more, maybe see what the R1 has in store....or between these two.

Sure, I "can" live without IBIS...but in this day in age, we shouldn't have to.

IBIS is pretty much an expectation with cameras in this price range. It really isn't a "new shiny" so much as an expected commodity today in a higher end camera.

If they'd put IBIS in that you could lock when you didn't need it....would have been a perfect camera for myself and I'm guessing a lot of others.

C

 

[twoheadedboy]

I don't need 8K video directly, but I do want the 4K HQ that comes from the 8K sensor. How long can you shoot 4K HQ for? At the R5's launch if I recall it was pretty limited number of minutes you got before the camera overheated. Has this improved?

I also heard of reports where you take a bunch of photos and then switch to video only to find that the R5 won't take any video due to overheating from the photos you've taken. Is this still an issue post firmware? Has this improved?

I'm genuinely asking b/c I have found very little info on these firmware updates and what they're actually doing.. so if I can record up to 25-30min 4k HQ without thermal limits being reached, and if I can freely take a bunch of photos and then switch to video and immediately record 25-30 min 4k HQ without reaching thermal limits, then I'll buy an R5 today!

And just to let you know - I'm willing to trade off on certain things - I'm OK with the micro HDMI for instance, or the 7-8s to switch over from video to photo and vice-versa. But IBIS is something folks need for photos - you know - that other use case that we want to use this camera for. Surely you're not suggesting photographers use a gimbal for photo taking, right?

Just to be clear, you don't have ANY equipment that shoots 4k now, and you're worried about 8k oversampled 4k? All you have to do is shoot an R5 with a Ninja V+, problem solved. Many have proven you can shoot the non-HQ 4k - which is not time-limited - and get 99.9% the same result with some sharpening in post.

"I also heard of reports where you take a bunch of photos and then switch to video only to find that the R5 won't take any video due to overheating from the photos you've taken. Is this still an issue post firmware? Has this improved?"

This is FALSE. The ONLY heat-limited modes are 120p ones, 4k HQ, 4k 60p, and 8k. The camera will never, ever stop you from shooting standard def 4k 30p/24p or 1080p. And as previously stated, you will almost certainly not see a visible difference with a processed file, which you will be doing anyway if you're shooting in CLog3/CLog.

 

[Respinder]

You and I have been on this forum for as long as anybody and it’s been the same for every Canon camera ever released. Every one is junk because it’s missing some magic spec. When Canon adds that spec there is always a new one that has to be included or the camera is “crippled.”

I believe Canon has released three bodies over 12 years that meet the definition of "perfection":
1. Canon 5D Mark II (2008)
2. Canon 1DC (2012)
3. Canon 1DX Mark III (2021)

I believe the "crippling" is mostly due to Canon's continued efforts to protect their Cinema EOS line at all costs. This release is no different in a crowded field with the C70 and original R5 - its safe to assume that a perfect R5C may have eliminated any need to buy an R5 at all.

I do have hope for the R5 Mark II - perhaps it will be the spiritual successor to the 5D Mark II? Maybe?

 

[twoheadedboy]

Right on, we also used to ride horses instead of cars, use carrier pigeons instead of phones, and drink whiskey instead of anesthesia! Who cares if Canon removes features from the R5c that everyone expected it to have and were present in the R5? If anything Canon should remove more!

Geeze, who even needs a camera? Back then we didn't need a machine to capture a moment in time, we had paint... we had technique.

IBIS isn't a revolutionary change as from horses to cars. It's more like adding cruise control to a car which already has an automatic transmission. It gets you a stop or 2, which is less effective than any lens w/IS, or you can get with little perceptible quality loss by increasing the ISO 1 or 2 stops in 99% of circumstances, or you can use a wider aperture to maintain a faster frame speed - something you may need to do anyway, as IBIS only stops camera shake, not a subject's motion!

 

[entoman]

I simply think there is a world of difference between "nothing to be sniffed at" and "without IBIS, this camera is junk."

I completely agree. To call the R5C "junk" is clearly ridiculous - I'm not a video shooter, but it's abundantly clear that the R5C is the most affordable model for professional 8K and is highly specified for video usage.

But for stills shooters, or typical "hybrid" shooters, one of the fundamental advantages of MILCs is IBIS. Omitting it can only be for product segmentation and cost reducing purposes. The R5 is far more suited to purpose for stills shooters. Personally, even if the R5 and R5C were priced identically, as a stills shooter, I simply wouldn't consider the R5C.

 

[Respinder]

IBIS isn't a revolutionary change as from horses to cars. It's more like adding cruise control to a car which already has an automatic transmission. It gets you a stop or 2, which is less effective than any lens w/IS, or you can get with little perceptible quality loss by increasing the ISO 1 or 2 stops in 99% of circumstances, or you can use a wider aperture to maintain a faster frame speed - something you may need to do anyway, as IBIS only stops camera shake, not a subject's motion!

I think IBIS on the R5 is a game changer, and Canon did such a good job with it that its omission from the R5C is simply absurd.
When you can take an older lens, like the original EF 50 f1.0 (which was known to be difficult to use) and achieve incredibly sharp results due to IBIS, the feature really speaks for itself.