Canon Officially Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

[Orangutan]

See my previous post:

Looks a little tight to me. Whether that rises to the level of "problem" is subjective.

Right, I actually saw it. My post was more general response than per se just reply to you, because I find the whole affair rather ridiculous and overhyped. It will pass, it's just trolls will have some ammo for flamebaits

Fair enough.

 

[Loswr]

Having never used a 1DX I can only compare to my 70D, which seems to fill a bit more of the viewfinder. Of course, it's a crop, and has lower VF coverage. Seems like Pro cameras should have better coverage.

The larger FF sensor means a larger mirror assembly, which necessitates a larger submirror, etc. While it is possible to further enhance the point spread, that would mean size/robustness increases of the mirror assembly that would make it approach medium format mirror box size. The optical situation is somewhat analogous to designing UWA lenses – compare the EF 11-24L to the EF-S 10-22mm. The submirror geometry also means it's somewhat easier to make an array wider than taller.

The 7D/70D AF points actually have the same horizontal spread as the 1D X and actually a row taller vertical spread than the 1D X. The big difference in AF point location with the 1D X / 5DIII is that they have rectangular arrays with the corners near the rule-of-thirds points, whereas the 7D/70D have a diamond shape with the corners absent. In that sense, the rectangular array of the 6DII is a major improvement in AF point spread.

 

[scyrene]

Scyrene,
Thanks for such an elaborate reply. Just a note: it appears that you have replied to a comment by Sharlin, not me.
My position remains very simple and straight forward: 5D level body suits better my style of shooting.
The offered AF points spread in 6D II is not adequate for my projects.

here it is. very approximated, compensated for 95% OVF of 6D II ( inner grey rectangle - 6d II - viewfinder view, outer grey rectangle - same, but compensated for 95% OVF coverage, aligned with 5d IV viewfinder view, red rectangles - 6d II AF zones, blue - 5d IV AF zones, light blue little squares - 6D, original, 11 points AF system spread...) your comments, Scotty??

You failed to note that the outer points on the 5D-IV are not cross-type, so cross-type coverage is very similar. The 5D-IV does have a slight advantage in vertical spread for the central group of AF points.

This demonstrates nicely why the outer AF points aren't cross-type even in Canon's flagship AF system. They're simply too far in the periphery for reliable vertical phase information.

Noo, you misunderstand, apparently it's just silly...

Actually, let me explain: no one was expecting such a silly move with 6DII AF spread from Canon. It was almost given to expect at least a little wider AF points spread. It is so obvious, that no one even gave it a single doubt.

LOL. Amazing how all these new or fairly new CR accounts suddenly care about a feature that nobody had even mentioned in the preceding months - namely AF point spread :

They've upgraded almost every feature of this camera's predecessor, but clearly it's DOA according to these guys. There's not enough eye-roll emojis in the world.

: : :

I was using their comment to point out the problem with your statement. As Sharlin pointed out (and others in later replies in this thread), the spread is largely due to the restrictions of the physics of this type of AF module, whereas you implied that it was a deliberately restrictive decision on Canon's part (a "silly" one).

Newsflash: the traditional AF points (i.e. not DPAF) on a FF sensor can't be placed as close to the edge as with a smaller sensor. That's just how it is.

 

[scyrene]

Well, it looks like whatever else people may like or not about 6D2, it's already an Amazon hit -

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-DSLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941/ref=zg_bs_nav_p_1_p

6D2 is the #3 bestselling DSLR. There are no Nikon bodies that are over $500 on the top 20 (the $500+ kits both come with 18-55 and 70-300 lenses).

The top 10 are:

#1 T6 kit $499
#2 D3400 kit $497
#3 6D Mark II Body $1,999
#4 T5 Kit $349
#5 D3300 Kit $447
#6 5D Mark IV Body $3,299
#7 D3400 kit (2 lens) $597
#8 70D Body $799
#9 D3300 Kit (2 lens) $495
#10 80D Body $1,099
#11 6D Mark 1 Body $1,399
#12 T6 Kit $359
#13 5D Mark 3 $2,299
#14 D5500 $727
#15 D5300 $489

One thing that's pretty easy to glean from Amazon bestsellers list is that price point is critically important. I'm actually shocked that all top 20 are Canon/Nikon, and that all of the pricier bodies are Canon.

Wow

1st non-Canon/Nikon: Fujifilm No. 36
1st Sony No. 59

Canon are just so doomed! :


EDIT: not quite so good in the UK, Pentax are well up here, and the 6DII is "only" at No. 28.

I get the impression Amazon is a bit weird for camera shopping in the UK. The stock they have is patchy, and the prices aren't necessarily better than dedicated camera retailers, so I wouldn't take their charts as representative here.

 

[scyrene]

Remarkable.
I have lost count of how many people there are heavily criticising the 6D2, and they have a total number of posts lower than the IQ of the average 2 year old.
So I ask myself what makes them so insecure that they even come onto the Canon forums let alone feel the need to criticise a camera they have no intention of buying and have often bought into competitor's systems.

Insecure....so insecure.

Really? I think the Canon fanboy tendency on this forum to vehemently defend even mild criticism of their favorite company reveals much more insecurity.

And yet again you confuse 'I have no real interest in this but I understand why they did not do it' with 'fanboy' and 'vehemently defend'.
No-one has denied 4k will become much more common (even with Canon) - what many (including myself) have done is ridicule claims that Canon don't know what they are doing and that Canon is doomed. Unfortunately many like yourself are incapable of understanding the subtlety of that position.

Your position is not subtle at all- as you said, you and others here "ridicule" those who disagree with you. Actually, I think a lot of the 4Kers have a subtle position that you don't get, which is: rooting for their home team Canon to include a feature that would sell more cameras (yes, even more).

If including it put the price up (and it may; heat dissipation and faster processing may be required), they might sell fewer cameras. We don't know - we don't have any data to say either way. But this is a nuanced point, and you evince a rather clumsy position - that anyone disagreeing with you is a 'fanboy' etc. Yawn.

 

[scyrene]

The POINT, Neuro, is to encourage others who don't like Canon's IQ, or other features or lack thereof, to try any other body or system that better suits what they want.

Neuro has posted plenty of replies on these forums along the lines of 'buy what suits you best, whatever the brand'. I've not yet seen him tell people to buy Canon for the sake of it being Canon. So you're actually in agreement with each other.

 

[Khalai]

Did anyone really expect a 1DXII/5DIV grade AF module in the 6DII?

Apparently everyone out there, according to various individuals in recent discussion ;D

Like Canon was forcing them 6D2s down their throats without asking them nicely. Poor souls, at the mercy of Canon, who cannot change system for whatever obscure reason, yet continue to prophecise that Canon is surely doomed 8)

 

[Loswr]

The POINT, Neuro, is to encourage others who don't like Canon's IQ, or other features or lack thereof, to try any other body or system that better suits what they want.

Neuro has posted plenty of replies on these forums along the lines of 'buy what suits you best, whatever the brand'. I've not yet seen him tell people to buy Canon for the sake of it being Canon. So you're actually in agreement with each other.

Indeed. But there are those, like Aglet, who simply can't seem to accept that some people —a majority, in fact— have found that Canon best suits what they need/want.

 

[BillB]

Did anyone really expect a 1DXII/5DIV grade AF module in the 6DII?

Apparently everyone out there, according to various individuals in recent discussion ;D

Like Canon was forcing them 6D2s down their throats without asking them nicely. Poor souls, at the mercy of Canon, who cannot change system for whatever obscure reason, yet continue to prophecise that Canon is surely doomed 8)

Posters are a self selected group, and quite a few are upset about something. In this case, it seems that actually seeing a (simulated) picture of the AF spread of the 6DII clumped in middle of the viewfinder proved unsettling to persons unfamiliar with AF spreads in other full frame cameras, and several of them immediately shared their concern with the readers of Canon Rumors. There was some disengenuous trolling going on, but mostly it's seems to have been the result of unfamiliarity with AF point spreads in typical full frame OVF's, most likely on the part of persons seriously thinking of getting a 6DII.

 

[Don Haines]

The POINT, Neuro, is to encourage others who don't like Canon's IQ, or other features or lack thereof, to try any other body or system that better suits what they want.

Neuro has posted plenty of replies on these forums along the lines of 'buy what suits you best, whatever the brand'. I've not yet seen him tell people to buy Canon for the sake of it being Canon. So you're actually in agreement with each other.

Indeed. But there are those, like Aglet, who simply can't seem to accept that some people —a majority, in fact— have found that Canon best suits what they need/want.

Also, some people have a hard time accepting that there are far more decision criteria than just camera specs, and that these different criteria will lead to different decisions.... even the same person will make different decisions under different circumstances.

For example, at work, we have a multi-million dollar budget, a 7D, and a 6D, and the 6D2 is not worth upgrading to.... yet at home, with a considerably smalller budget, the 6D2 is considered a very worthwhile upgrade... I chose Canon and am happy with my decision, yet some of the recommendations I have recently made to friends are D500 plus 200-500 and to on other person, Olympus.

There is no such thing as one simple answer for everyone and those crying "Canon is doomed" or that everyone should switch to brand Y are missing that simple point..... The variations of individual's needs and preferences far exceed the variation between camera bodies!

 

[BillB]

The POINT, Neuro, is to encourage others who don't like Canon's IQ, or other features or lack thereof, to try any other body or system that better suits what they want.

Neuro has posted plenty of replies on these forums along the lines of 'buy what suits you best, whatever the brand'. I've not yet seen him tell people to buy Canon for the sake of it being Canon. So you're actually in agreement with each other.

Indeed. But there are those, like Aglet, who simply can't seem to accept that some people —a majority, in fact— have found that Canon best suits what they need/want.

Having seen the Pentax Light, he comes to Canon Rumors to bring photographic Truth with the poor deluded souls who use Canon equipment. Such a thankless task he sets himself.

 

[Don Haines]

Did anyone really expect a 1DXII/5DIV grade AF module in the 6DII?

Apparently everyone out there, according to various individuals in recent discussion ;D

Like Canon was forcing them 6D2s down their throats without asking them nicely. Poor souls, at the mercy of Canon, who cannot change system for whatever obscure reason, yet continue to prophecise that Canon is surely doomed 8)

Posters are a self selected group, and quite a few are upset about something. In this case, it seems that actually seeing a (simulated) picture of the AF spread of the 6DII clumped in middle of the viewfinder proved unsettling to persons unfamiliar with AF spreads in other full frame cameras, and several of them immediately shared their concern with the readers of Canon Rumors. There was some disengenuous trolling going on, but mostly it's seems to have been the result of unfamiliarity with AF point spreads in typical full frame OVF's, most likely on the part of persons seriously thinking of getting a 6DII.

And most of them do not realize that the spread of AF points is limited by geometry. To get more vertical spread, the shutter/AF mechanism would need to be made deeper, and that would change the sensor-lens distance, and that would mean a whole new set of lenses....

So yes, canon could have made a better AF point spread, but it would have meant a much larger camera and tossing out all you existing lenses..... and that is a cost that none of us would bear!

 

[hbr]

Did anyone really expect a 1DXII/5DIV grade AF module in the 6DII?

Apparently everyone out there, according to various individuals in recent discussion ;D

Like Canon was forcing them 6D2s down their throats without asking them nicely. Poor souls, at the mercy of Canon, who cannot change system for whatever obscure reason, yet continue to prophecise that Canon is surely doomed 8)

Posters are a self selected group, and quite a few are upset about something. In this case, it seems that actually seeing a (simulated) picture of the AF spread of the 6DII clumped in middle of the viewfinder proved unsettling to persons unfamiliar with AF spreads in other full frame cameras, and several of them immediately shared their concern with the readers of Canon Rumors. There was some disengenuous trolling going on, but mostly it's seems to have been the result of unfamiliarity with AF point spreads in typical full frame OVF's, most likely on the part of persons seriously thinking of getting a 6DII.

You are correct, BillB. Out of ignorance about AF systems I am afraid that I was the one that started this argument because I couldn't understand why the 6D2 would not cover most of the frame as my 7D2 and then several others chimed in. The argument is fine to educate others who felt the same way that I did, but it has gotten quite heated which is not what I set out to do.

Brian

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

You are correct, BillB. Out of ignorance about AF systems I am afraid that I was the one that started this argument because I couldn't understand why the 6D2 would not cover most of the frame as my 7D2 and then several others chimed in. The argument is fine to educate others who felt the same way that I did, but it has gotten quite heated which is not what I set out to do.

Brian

Brian, its not you, its the typical new product announcement time. The complaint used to be DR, now complainers need something new to argue about. In fact, if every camera had all the features people want, few could afford one. As to the AF point spread, a 5D MK III or MK IV AF chip would fit without changing the lens to sensor distance, its just a matter of keeping costs down.

Having been a member since virtually the beginning (Lost my first two years of membership when my account was accidentally deleted), I see it happen with every new announcement. Things will calm down in a week or two.

 

[hbr]

You are correct, BillB. Out of ignorance about AF systems I am afraid that I was the one that started this argument because I couldn't understand why the 6D2 would not cover most of the frame as my 7D2 and then several others chimed in. The argument is fine to educate others who felt the same way that I did, but it has gotten quite heated which is not what I set out to do.

Brian

Brian, its not you, its the typical new product announcement time. The complaint used to be DR, now complainers need something new to argue about. In fact, if every camera had all the features people want, few could afford one. As to the AF point spread, a 5D MK III or MK IV AF chip would fit without changing the lens to sensor distance, its just a matter of keeping costs down.

Having been a member since virtually the beginning (Lost my first two years of membership when my account was accidentally deleted), I see it happen with every new announcement. Things will calm down in a week or two.

Thanks, Mt Spokane Photography. I have learned a couple of things from neuro: 1) With a shallow DOF and recomposing the distance between the camera and the subject changes which explains why quite a number of my shots of a model ended up being slightly out of focus when I was trying to take a picture from the waist up and 2) the AF spread on the 6D2 isn't much worse than the more expensive models.
I have come to this forum nearly every day for the past 6 or 7 years now but only recently joined because I had an opinion that I wanted to express.
I will almost never bad mouth someone on this forum even if they disagree with my opinion. I put my opinion out there and if someone disagrees with me then so be it. The only time I might get upset and trash talk someone is if I am attacked first.

Brian

 

[CanonCams]

http://support-th.canon-asia.com/contents/TH/EN/0302746901.html?

Manual released.

 

[-pekr-]

OK, nothing really suprising there. For us, an APS-C (70D) shooters, maybe some color sensor, which helps to select focusing point in a group? Also loupe ability to focus straight to the AF point gaining focus, might be handy too.

Now the long wait towards the first tests to see, how much behind (or not) is the 6DII in regards to the high ISO performance of the 5DIV.

Well, DigiDirect is claiming, that Canon states, that the low light performance should be better than the one of the 5DIV. That contradicts DPR claims. We will see ....

https://youtu.be/ylLd9Y2EL3w?t=180

 

[Sporgon]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

 

[Khalai]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

 

[Sporgon]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

Wait and see