Canon Officially Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

[Khalai]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

Wait and see

Well, give the flak Canon apparently receives for that "clusterf**k small and tight AF array" I should't really be surprised, right?

 

[BillB]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

Wait and see

Well, give the flak Canon apparently receives for that "clusterf**k small and tight AF array" I should't really be surprised, right?

We also have to figure on people not waiting on the right Raw profiles for the 6DII or not finding the right sharpening adjustments, as well as those among us with an uncanny knack for finding a fatal, if only rarely replicateable, flaw in any new Canon product. That should get into October, if not later.

 

[Khalai]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

The 6DII has almost certainly the on-chip ADCs of the other recent models so it should be much better in terms of noise. Also, it should be better than the 5DIV due to the pixel pitch. Still, the 5DIV has a very neutral noise that makes it very powerful in low light even when some fine details are lost, say at 12800. We'll see if the 6DII can keep up.

I was just merely referring to resolution and whether it will be noticeable change from original 6D. I really do hope in that on-chip ADC magic to happen and I'm a bit concerned about some snippet from DPR, where Canon rep supposedly said that 6D2 sensor is not as good as the one in 5D4. Well, can't wait for real world review. In about 16 hours, there is an event near where I live - 6D2 hands on presentation. Sadly, only preproduction samples so no RAW photos allowed just yet :/

 

[-pekr-]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

The 6DII has almost certainly the on-chip ADCs of the other recent models so it should be much better in terms of noise. Also, it should be better than the 5DIV due to the pixel pitch. Still, the 5DIV has a very neutral noise that makes it very powerful in low light even when some fine details are lost, say at 12800. We'll see if the 6DII can keep up.

I was just merely referring to resolution and whether it will be noticeable change from original 6D. I really do hope in that on-chip ADC magic to happen and I'm a bit concerned about some snippet from DPR, where Canon rep supposedly said that 6D2 sensor is not as good as the one in 5D4. Well, can't wait for real world review. In about 16 hours, there is an event near where I live - 6D2 hands on presentation. Sadly, only preproduction samples so no RAW photos allowed just yet :/

Whereas DigiDirect claims Canon stating, that the low light performance should be better than the one of the 5DIV. That contradicts DPR claims. We will see ....

https://youtu.be/ylLd9Y2EL3w?t=180

 

[Deleted member 379512]

Do Canon have any iso invariant sensors? Keen to see if they have managed this on the new sensor with the new adc tech.

Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?

 

[LonelyBoy]

I really do hope in that on-chip ADC magic to happen and I'm a bit concerned about some snippet from DPR, where Canon rep supposedly said that 6D2 sensor is not as good as the one in 5D4.

If it doesn't have on-chip ADC even I'll start calling it "nerfed". It can be iffy to pay attention to reps, though, who probably are told not to hype a product as better than the ones above it. Here, "not as good" might mean "down 4mpx from" rather than anything really meaningful.

Heck, remember back in the day when the Celerons with the on-chip L2 cache were "worse" than the Pentium IIs, even though they definitely weren't for almost every task?

 

[Mikehit]

Do Canon have any iso invariant sensors? Keen to see if they have managed this on the new sensor with the new adc tech.

Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?

How 'invariant' do you want it?

No, Canon have no IBIS technology (where the sensor physically moves)

 

[Aglet]

Do Canon have any iso invariant sensors? Keen to see if they have managed this on the new sensor with the new adc tech.

not really... the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
They have less noise and considerably less fixed pattern noise which are key to 'iso invariance."
however, they still have a rather non-linear signal-to-noise-ratio vs exposure level (see DxOmark, full SNR plots) which is exacerbated at lower ISOs... so this kind of gets in the way of the "iso invariance" ability.

That said, these newer bodies, and hopefully the 6D2, will produce raw files that can take considerably more manipulation in post without falling apart.
But still not quite as much as everybody else's cameras... FWIW, Canon's latest bodies are "good enough" to consider iso-invariant to some degree.

Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?

no, they were too proud/fiscally-prudent to choose that route.
So you have larger, pricier lenses instead.

Olympus, Sony, and Pentax have kicked butt in the IBIS technology. Panasonic is getting there.

 

[Mikehit]

Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?

no, they were too proud/fiscally-prudent to choose that route.
So you have larger, pricier lenses instead.

Olympus, Sony, and Pentax have kicked butt in the IBIS technology. Panasonic is getting there.

Canon have always said that for long lenses it is better to have the stabilisation in the lens and I am not sure anyone has really proven otherwise. However, what I think is interesting is 'dual stabilisation' started by Panasonic IIRC and now with Olympus as well, where lens and sensor stabilisation work together and I reckon that has caught Canon on the hop.
600mm f4 with 6 stops of stabilisation? Yes please!

 

[Khalai]

Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?

no, they were too proud/fiscally-prudent to choose that route.
So you have larger, pricier lenses instead.

Olympus, Sony, and Pentax have kicked butt in the IBIS technology. Panasonic is getting there.

Canon have always said that for long lenses it is better to have the stabilisation in the lens and I am not sure anyone has really proven otherwise. However, what I think is interesting is 'dual stabilisation' started by Panasonic IIRC and now with Olympus as well, where lens and sensor stabilisation work together and I reckon that has caught Canon on the hop.
600mm f4 with 6 stops of stabilisation? Yes please!

Canon always claimed in-lens IS as a better, more calibrated and customized solution. IBIS only works best for shorter FL anyway. I can guess 600/4L IS II with 4+2 stops IS would be amazeballs, but I'm afraid that IBIS would not be that efficient anyway, without moving the sensor almost out of the camera. That angular movement is actually quite pronounced on those FL

 

[Deleted member 379512]

How 'invariant' do you want it?

No, Canon have no IBIS technology (where the sensor physically moves)

As invariant as can be if possible... really looking for the ability to push vignetting out of corners, while being able to adjust the shadows and may a stop or so exposure, so I can catch the highlights in a sunset, for example, but also have a foreground. My current 6d is somewhat lacking in this at iso 100. The vignetting with astro and basically any pushing shadows in the upper isos (800+) is quite noisy.

Shame about the ibis, I've got a few f4 IS lenses, but would like to get some faster primes

not really... the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
They have less noise and considerably less fixed pattern noise which are key to 'iso invariance."
however, they still have a rather non-linear signal-to-noise-ratio vs exposure level (see DxOmark, full SNR plots) which is exacerbated at lower ISOs... so this kind of gets in the way of the "iso invariance" ability.

That said, these newer bodies, and hopefully the 6D2, will produce raw files that can take considerably more manipulation in post without falling apart.
But still not quite as much as everybody else's cameras... FWIW, Canon's latest bodies are "good enough" to consider iso-invariant to some degree.

Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?

no, they were too proud/fiscally-prudent to choose that route.
So you have larger, pricier lenses instead.

Olympus, Sony, and Pentax have kicked butt in the IBIS technology. Panasonic is getting there.

I'd love the pentax k-1 to come with an ef mount, that'd tick all the boxes. Slightly disappointed the 6d didn't really try to match this. The astro tracker and pixel shift would be perfect for what I shoot 99% of the time

Larger pricier lenses don't worry me too much (within reason, I really like the sigma Arts), but none of the faster canon primes have IS

How invariant are the latest sensors, compared to say the d750? (I know someone with this and am quite jealous of the shots he can recover and I have to miss)

 

[jeffa4444]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

Wait and see

Lets not forget DPR had a pre-production camera with a beta version of DPP so they made a claim about softer images knowing the system was not yet perfected (unprofessional in my book). As Sporgon states lets wait and see.

 

[Khalai]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

Wait and see

Lets not forget DPR had a pre-production camera with a beta version of DPP so they made a claim about softer images knowing the system was not yet perfected (unprofessional in my book). As Sporgon states lets wait and see.

I'll have my hands on in about three hours. But only preproduction as well unfortunately. I won't be allowed to take any raw photos back home. Still I'm looking forward to it

 

[candyman]

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August

It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?

Wait and see

Lets not forget DPR had a pre-production camera with a beta version of DPP so they made a claim about softer images knowing the system was not yet perfected (unprofessional in my book). As Sporgon states lets wait and see.

I'll have my hands on in about three hours. But only preproduction as well unfortunately. I won't be allowed to take any raw photos back home. Still I'm looking forward to it

That's great.
Please share your impressions here. Thanks!

 

[scyrene]

Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?

no, they were too proud/fiscally-prudent to choose that route.
So you have larger, pricier lenses instead.

Olympus, Sony, and Pentax have kicked butt in the IBIS technology. Panasonic is getting there.

Canon have always said that for long lenses it is better to have the stabilisation in the lens and I am not sure anyone has really proven otherwise. However, what I think is interesting is 'dual stabilisation' started by Panasonic IIRC and now with Olympus as well, where lens and sensor stabilisation work together and I reckon that has caught Canon on the hop.
600mm f4 with 6 stops of stabilisation? Yes please!

Canon always claimed in-lens IS as a better, more calibrated and customized solution. IBIS only works best for shorter FL anyway. I can guess 600/4L IS II with 4+2 stops IS would be amazeballs, but I'm afraid that IBIS would not be that efficient anyway, without moving the sensor almost out of the camera. That angular movement is actually quite pronounced on those FL

I'd never say no to better technology, but on longer lenses, typical subject matter is the limiting factor for exposure speed a lot of the time, rather than handholdability - namely, sports and wildlife. For instance, you can't really shoot birds slower than 1/250 most of the time, and that's already possible with 4 stop IS on the current super-telephoto lenses.

Having said that, with the advent of more DO superteles (as we're led to believe), and ever better IS, handholding at longer exposures will probably become easier (although with higher pixel densities, camera shake is more apparent at 100% magnification, making rules like 1/FL rather outdated, so maybe it'll balance out).

Personally, I think the area where better IS is most useful is at short to medium focal lengths, for certain macro work, and shots in dimly lit spaces without moving subjects (or where subject movement is part of the composition).

 

[Mikehit]

Canon always claimed in-lens IS as a better, more calibrated and customized solution. IBIS only works best for shorter FL anyway. I can guess 600/4L IS II with 4+2 stops IS would be amazeballs, but I'm afraid that IBIS would not be that efficient anyway, without moving the sensor almost out of the camera. That angular movement is actually quite pronounced on those FL

I know that is always a comment made about IBIS for long focal lengths, but if you look at the Pana/Oly system the dual IS splits responsibilities - the sensor does not do full 5-axis and controls only the elements not covered by the lens. I don't know if this would help.

 

[Don Haines]

Canon always claimed in-lens IS as a better, more calibrated and customized solution. IBIS only works best for shorter FL anyway. I can guess 600/4L IS II with 4+2 stops IS would be amazeballs, but I'm afraid that IBIS would not be that efficient anyway, without moving the sensor almost out of the camera. That angular movement is actually quite pronounced on those FL

I know that is always a comment made about IBIS for long focal lengths, but if you look at the Pana/Oly system the dual IS splits responsibilities - the sensor does not do full 5-axis and controls only the elements not covered by the lens. I don't know if this would help.

The Oly system PRIMARILY is IBIS, but with certain lenses can use the lens stabilization at the same time, the result being better stabilization than either method alone gives.

 

[mashuto]

the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
They have less noise and considerably less fixed pattern noise which are key to 'iso invariance."
however, they still have a rather non-linear signal-to-noise-ratio vs exposure level (see DxOmark, full SNR plots) which is exacerbated at lower ISOs... so this kind of gets in the way of the "iso invariance" ability.

That said, these newer bodies, and hopefully the 6D2, will produce raw files that can take considerably more manipulation in post without falling apart.
But still not quite as much as everybody else's cameras... FWIW, Canon's latest bodies are "good enough" to consider iso-invariant to some degree.

This is my hope for the 6D2. As a current 6D owner who primarily focuses on landscapes, the 6D has been great, but I very often run into situations where pushing exposure and shadows in post more than about a stop, and as you say, it just falls apart.

I preordered the 6D2, based on the feature set and the hope that dynamic range is improved and that that its more "iso invariant" than before to the point that I can really manipulate my files. The features I am sold on, but sensor quality I am not. But if the current batch of canon cameras is significantly improved in that aspect from the original 6D and if the 6D2 matches the current crop of cameras (like the 5D4), then I will be happy. Its just still unknown exactly how well it will perform. Its the one thing thats holding me back from feeling completely confident in my preorder. So I am really looking to see just how well it performs, just how good the dynamic range is, and just how much we can manipulate and push RAW files before they become worthless.

 

[dak723]

Lol....yeah and the good news is you'll have access to your 401k by then. Every time canon releases a new camera we start waiting for the next one. Canon really should have focused on at least matching what Nikon may be doing with the D750 replacement but clearly don't care as long as we keep handing them our hard earned cash. I'm sure this we be decent camera, but for $2000 hard earned dollars, decent seems a bit underwhelming. And certainly doesn't seem future proof, even for a couple years.

If you think the Nikon is the better camera, get the Nikon. The current 6D - for many of us - is far more than a "decent" camera. The IQ, in my opinion, is excellent. (Better than Sony overall in my real world comparison). The 6D, as most Canon cameras seem to be - is a reliable workhorse. It is quite future proof if you keep a camera for 7 or 8 years as many folks do (yes, not the folks on this forum, but those more interested in photography compared to those more interested in technology). So, the new 6DII sounds like it a great deal for those who aren't interested in 4K and who want a reliable, high IQ camera for the next 7 or 8 years.

 

[Aglet]

the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
They have less noise and considerably less fixed pattern noise which are key to 'iso invariance."
however, they still have a rather non-linear signal-to-noise-ratio vs exposure level (see DxOmark, full SNR plots) which is exacerbated at lower ISOs... so this kind of gets in the way of the "iso invariance" ability.

That said, these newer bodies, and hopefully the 6D2, will produce raw files that can take considerably more manipulation in post without falling apart.
But still not quite as much as everybody else's cameras... FWIW, Canon's latest bodies are "good enough" to consider iso-invariant to some degree.

This is my hope for the 6D2. As a current 6D owner who primarily focuses on landscapes, the 6D has been great, but I very often run into situations where pushing exposure and shadows in post more than about a stop, and as you say, it just falls apart.

I preordered the 6D2, based on the feature set and the hope that dynamic range is improved and that that its more "iso invariant" than before to the point that I can really manipulate my files. The features I am sold on, but sensor quality I am not. But if the current batch of canon cameras is significantly improved in that aspect from the original 6D and if the 6D2 matches the current crop of cameras (like the 5D4), then I will be happy. Its just still unknown exactly how well it will perform. Its the one thing thats holding me back from feeling completely confident in my preorder. So I am really looking to see just how well it performs, just how good the dynamic range is, and just how much we can manipulate and push RAW files before they become worthless.

I ran into those limitations with my 5D2, 7D, and 60D. They were all nice to use but had too much fixed pattern noise. That's when I decided I wanted better tools.
Oddly, I had fewer problems with my older 40D and even some old Rebels running Digic 3.
6D should be a bit better than the old 5D2 I had but real improvements came from Canon with the 7D2, 80D and 5D4. Still kind of noisy in the dark areas but at least no more serious fixed pattern noise problems so that would allow more raw file mangling in post.
Hopefully ALL new Canon bodies will perform better like that and then I can stop poking at them with a stick. LOL