Canon Officially Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

[mashuto]

the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
They have less noise and considerably less fixed pattern noise which are key to 'iso invariance."
however, they still have a rather non-linear signal-to-noise-ratio vs exposure level (see DxOmark, full SNR plots) which is exacerbated at lower ISOs... so this kind of gets in the way of the "iso invariance" ability.

That said, these newer bodies, and hopefully the 6D2, will produce raw files that can take considerably more manipulation in post without falling apart.
But still not quite as much as everybody else's cameras... FWIW, Canon's latest bodies are "good enough" to consider iso-invariant to some degree.

This is my hope for the 6D2. As a current 6D owner who primarily focuses on landscapes, the 6D has been great, but I very often run into situations where pushing exposure and shadows in post more than about a stop, and as you say, it just falls apart.

I preordered the 6D2, based on the feature set and the hope that dynamic range is improved and that that its more "iso invariant" than before to the point that I can really manipulate my files. The features I am sold on, but sensor quality I am not. But if the current batch of canon cameras is significantly improved in that aspect from the original 6D and if the 6D2 matches the current crop of cameras (like the 5D4), then I will be happy. Its just still unknown exactly how well it will perform. Its the one thing thats holding me back from feeling completely confident in my preorder. So I am really looking to see just how well it performs, just how good the dynamic range is, and just how much we can manipulate and push RAW files before they become worthless.

I ran into those limitations with my 5D2, 7D, and 60D. They were all nice to use but had too much fixed pattern noise. That's when I decided I wanted better tools.
Oddly, I had fewer problems with my older 40D and even some old Rebels running Digic 3.
6D should be a bit better than the old 5D2 I had but real improvements came from Canon with the 7D2, 80D and 5D4. Still kind of noisy in the dark areas but at least no more serious fixed pattern noise problems so that would allow more raw file mangling in post.
Hopefully ALL new Canon bodies will perform better like that and then I can stop poking at them with a stick. LOL

Yea, the 6D that I currently own was a significant improvement over the 60D I had before. My hope still remains that the 6D2 offers noticeable improvement again over the 6D, otherwise for me, I am not sure the price is worth it as an upgrade.

 

[Aglet]

Yea, the 6D that I currently own was a significant improvement over the 60D I had before. My hope still remains that the 6D2 offers noticeable improvement again over the 6D, otherwise for me, I am not sure the price is worth it as an upgrade.

I certainly felt a little trapped in the Canon market like that for a while...
Always hoping the next body they introduced would bring enough improved IQ that I could continue using the system... I got frustrated and tired of waiting.

I tried a cheap little Nikon D5100 and when I saw the amazing raw file quality from that consumer level camera I was hooked! Ordered two D800s and more d5100s after that... no turning back. I bought into some Pentax gear around the same time, too. Same impressive raw files as the Nikons but I didn't have the glass for them so they got less use.
I also got the first non AA-filtered Pentax body, the K5IIs... and found I got some really ugly false-color artifacts on specular hilites... really didn't work for my water shots!

This is why I tell people on this forum... if you're not satisfied with the tool you're using, try a different tool!
Since there were no adequately improved tools from Canon when I wanted them... I swtiched.. No regrets whatsoever.
Investing in Canon was one of the better investments I made... Got all my $ back when I sold my lenses! LOL

The "system" argument so many here use against switching did not apply to me. There was nothing so special about Canon gear that I could not get comparable versions from other camera mfrs or 3rd-party.
That said, I'd love to have the tilt-shift 17mm and 24mm lenses but I won't buy another FF Canon body to put them on. I'd go Sony on that one if I ever buy that glass.

FORTUNATELY, Canon finally has 3 very good IQ bodies to switch to now. Possibly 4 if the new 6D2 performs as well as the 5D4. So you now have the option of staying in the Canon camp if the latest products produce adequate raw files for your needs. You'll have to test it.
Hopefully the improved sensor tech will filter down to the Rebel series too.

That certainly would have been a lot simpler and cheaper for me if such an option existed some years ago.. Instead I now run Nikon, Pentax, Fuji, and Olympus-based MFT systems. There's still a few older Canon items on a shelf too... rarely use them now except for the big flashes which work well in my manual setups.

 

[mashuto]

I certainly felt a little trapped in the Canon market like that for a while...
Always hoping the next body they introduced would bring enough improved IQ that I could continue using the system... I got frustrated and tired of waiting.

This is why I tell people on this forum... if you're not satisfied with the tool you're using, try a different tool!
Since there were no adequately improved tools from Canon when I wanted them... I swtiched.. No regrets whatsoever.
Investing in Canon was one of the better investments I made... Got all my $ back when I sold my lenses! LOL

FORTUNATELY, Canon finally has 3 very good IQ bodies to switch to now. Possibly 4 if the new 6D2 performs as well as the 5D4. So you now have the option of staying in the Canon camp if the latest products produce adequate raw files for your needs. You'll have to test it.
Hopefully the improved sensor tech will filter down to the Rebel series too.

I personally stick with Canon mostly because I have been using them for a long time so I am comfortable with their operation, I like their lenses quite a lot, and I personally have never really felt that limited by image quality. I don't actually feel trapped. I just find myself lusting a little bit over tech that other companies are putting out, even though my canons really arent limiting for me.

My rebel xt served me well for 6 years while I was learning. My 60D was an excellent upgrade even though I only had it for two, simply because I wanted to move to full frame and my 6D has been fantastic for me and my uses. And everywhere image quality might be an issue, there are always work arounds (like bracketing and such).

So, I don't need to upgrade as the 6D still meets my needs quite well, but I am financially in a position where I can comfortably do it. The value proposition for me right now is that the new features look nice, but without an image quality boost to match, the cost might outweigh the value, if that makes sense. And if so, I will happily continue using my 6D as it still meets my needs. But, its been 4 and a half years since I got it, so if I can get some improvements now and keep my 6D as a backup (maybe with ML) I would be a happy camper. Again, just want to be sure that the value is worth the cost to me, and the one remaining unknown is image quality and just how much of an improvement it will be.

Now, from what I understand, the recent canon sensors have been quite good, maybe not as good as those sony sensors, but enough of an improvement for me to be happy. The question still remains just how much of those improvements will find their way into the 6D2 sensor. If past releases are anything to go by, it should be close to the 5D4... its just hard to be completely confident with all the talk lately of how canon is apparently intentionally holding their cameras back for whatever reasons.

 

[Aglet]

I personally stick with Canon mostly because I have been using them for a long time so I am comfortable with their operation....

Ditto, They still have some of the best ergonomics and usability. I miss that aspect of using them.

..everywhere image quality might be an issue, there are always work arounds (like bracketing and such).

that's the part that bit me... there wasn't always a workaround worth using for some shots. Can't bracket anything with motion very well, takes too much time in post to clean it up.

..from what I understand, the recent canon sensors have been quite good, maybe not as good as those sony sensors, but enough of an improvement for me to be happy. The question still remains just how much of those improvements will find their way into the 6D2 sensor. If past releases are anything to go by, it should be close to the 5D4... its just hard to be completely confident with all the talk lately of how canon is apparently intentionally holding their cameras back for whatever reasons.

that will be your main factor.
if the 6d2 tests close to the 5d4 on DxOmark then it may be worth the upgrade for improved IQ.
Right now the 5d4 vs the 6d.. 5d4 has about 1 stop cleaner deep shadows in lower ISOs from the SNR data published.
Time, and testing, will tell what the 6d2 does. It would be sad if it's not at least as good as the 5d4.

Whenever can afford a justifiable upgrade, I make it. I still run my original d800s because the IQ is so close to the 810 and I don't need the extra features of the newer model. Not sure what I will think about the next D8x0 model tho until it's out and tested.

 

[BillB]

I certainly felt a little trapped in the Canon market like that for a while...
Always hoping the next body they introduced would bring enough improved IQ that I could continue using the system... I got frustrated and tired of waiting.

This is why I tell people on this forum... if you're not satisfied with the tool you're using, try a different tool!
Since there were no adequately improved tools from Canon when I wanted them... I swtiched.. No regrets whatsoever.
Investing in Canon was one of the better investments I made... Got all my $ back when I sold my lenses! LOL

FORTUNATELY, Canon finally has 3 very good IQ bodies to switch to now. Possibly 4 if the new 6D2 performs as well as the 5D4. So you now have the option of staying in the Canon camp if the latest products produce adequate raw files for your needs. You'll have to test it.
Hopefully the improved sensor tech will filter down to the Rebel series too.

I personally stick with Canon mostly because I have been using them for a long time so I am comfortable with their operation, I like their lenses quite a lot, and I personally have never really felt that limited by image quality. I don't actually feel trapped. I just find myself lusting a little bit over tech that other companies are putting out, even though my canons really arent limiting for me.

My rebel xt served me well for 6 years while I was learning. My 60D was an excellent upgrade even though I only had it for two, simply because I wanted to move to full frame and my 6D has been fantastic for me and my uses. And everywhere image quality might be an issue, there are always work arounds (like bracketing and such).

So, I don't need to upgrade as the 6D still meets my needs quite well, but I am financially in a position where I can comfortably do it. The value proposition for me right now is that the new features look nice, but without an image quality boost to match, the cost might outweigh the value, if that makes sense. And if so, I will happily continue using my 6D as it still meets my needs. But, its been 4 and a half years since I got it, so if I can get some improvements now and keep my 6D as a backup (maybe with ML) I would be a happy camper. Again, just want to be sure that the value is worth the cost to me, and the one remaining unknown is image quality and just how much of an improvement it will be.

Now, from what I understand, the recent canon sensors have been quite good, maybe not as good as those sony sensors, but enough of an improvement for me to be happy. The question still remains just how much of those improvements will find their way into the 6D2 sensor. If past releases are anything to go by, it should be close to the 5D4... its just hard to be completely confident with all the talk lately of how canon is apparently intentionally holding their cameras back for whatever reasons.

My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ.

If I really am serious about IQ, I should use a tripod more, and the 6DII's articulated screen with touchscreen focussing in Liveview seems pretty attractive for working on a tripod. Interesting choices.

 

[Mikehit]

My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ.

If I really am serious about IQ, I should use a tripod more, and the 6DII's articulated screen with touchscreen focussing in Liveview seems pretty attractive for working on a tripod. Interesting choices.

Why would you think the 6D2 does not have better IQ than the 5DII? The 6D was as good as the 5D3 so why would the 6D2 be worse than that?

 

[BillB]

My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ.

If I really am serious about IQ, I should use a tripod more, and the 6DII's articulated screen with touchscreen focussing in Liveview seems pretty attractive for working on a tripod. Interesting choices.

Why would you think the 6D2 does not have better IQ than the 5DII? The 6D was as good as the 5D3 so why would the 6D2 be worse than that?

All I am saying is that I want to see some reports on the 6DII IQ before I make up my mind. It will have to be something like $2000 better to make me comfortable about getting it.

 

[Ozarker]

My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ.

If I really am serious about IQ, I should use a tripod more, and the 6DII's articulated screen with touchscreen focussing in Liveview seems pretty attractive for working on a tripod. Interesting choices.

Why would you think the 6D2 does not have better IQ than the 5DII? The 6D was as good as the 5D3 so why would the 6D2 be worse than that?

All I am saying is that I want to see some reports on the 6DII IQ before I make up my mind. It will have to be something like $2000 better to make me comfortable about getting it.

For you, what would make it $2,000 better? Just wondering how you quantify that. I don't think it is possible to quantify it. Really, it just boils down to whether a person wants to spend the money or not. I mean, really, what does $2,000 better look like? The new camera costs about $2,000.

 

[BillB]

My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ.

If I really am serious about IQ, I should use a tripod more, and the 6DII's articulated screen with touchscreen focussing in Liveview seems pretty attractive for working on a tripod. Interesting choices.

Why would you think the 6D2 does not have better IQ than the 5DII? The 6D was as good as the 5D3 so why would the 6D2 be worse than that?

All I am saying is that I want to see some reports on the 6DII IQ before I make up my mind. It will have to be something like $2000 better to make me comfortable about getting it.

For you, what would make it $2,000 better? Just wondering how you quantify that. I don't think it is possible to quantify it. Really, it just boils down to whether a person wants to spend the money or not. I mean, really, what does $2,000 better look like? The new camera costs about $2,000.

 

[BillB]

My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ.

If I really am serious about IQ, I should use a tripod more, and the 6DII's articulated screen with touchscreen focussing in Liveview seems pretty attractive for working on a tripod. Interesting choices.

Why would you think the 6D2 does not have better IQ than the 5DII? The 6D was as good as the 5D3 so why would the 6D2 be worse than that?

All I am saying is that I want to see some reports on the 6DII IQ before I make up my mind. It will have to be something like $2000 better to make me comfortable about getting it.

For you, what would make it $2,000 better? Just wondering how you quantify that. I don't think it is possible to quantify it. Really, it just boils down to whether a person wants to spend the money or not. I mean, really, what does $2,000 better look like? The new camera costs about $2,000.

Exactly. The 6DII costs $2000. If I buy it, I want to get my money's worth. The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one.

You are right. It is a personal choice. All value judgements are personal choices.







A related question is whether I can continue to grow as a photographer.

 

[curby]

It will have to be something like $2000 better to make me comfortable about getting it.

That's only if you can't get anything out of your old camera, right? In which case, can I have it? I'll pay for shipping. ;D

 

[unfocused]

...The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one...

I can answer that right now. No, you won't be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12 x 18 print. Just as you can't see the difference in the quality of a 12 x 18 print between a crop sensor and a 1DX II.

The differences are only noticeable if you are at the extremes: low light, extreme contrast, etc. With subjects shot under normal circumstances and printed and viewed at normal viewing distances, with an image shot at ISO 400 or below, no one can tell the difference between one camera and another.

12 x 18 is a fairly modest print size. I have printed significantly larger with the old 18 mp 7D sensor and prints are indistinguishable from those taken with a 5DIII or a 1DX II.

So, if that is your only criteria to determine if an upgrade is worthwhile to you, then I would recommend you simply keep the 5DII until it dies and then replace it with whatever is available at the time.

 

[unfocused]

So now that this is over, when does the disappointing 7D Mark III come out?

Let the speculation and rumors begin!

 

[Don Haines]

So now that this is over, when does the disappointing 7D Mark III come out?

Let the speculation and rumors begin!

OK....

It will have a dual card slot.... you heard it here first!

 

[dak723]

The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one.

If it will be possible for you to rent the 6D II at some point, that's what I would recommend. Then you can test it for yourself. Considering that Canon has gone to on sensor adc, there is a good possibility that you will be able to tell the difference, as the new cameras have less noise at low ISO.

In general, I agree with the previous poster, that virtually every DSLR whether FF or crop will give you excellent prints. I only print up to 8'' x 10" or so, but 12" x 18" is considerably larger. I would test the camera to compare.

 

[LonelyBoy]

So now that this is over, when does the disappointing 7D Mark III come out?

Let the speculation and rumors begin!

Rumors for the rumor mill!

 

[Ozarker]

...The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one...

I can answer that right now. No, you won't be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12 x 18 print. Just as you can't see the difference in the quality of a 12 x 18 print between a crop sensor and a 1DX II.

The differences are only noticeable if you are at the extremes: low light, extreme contrast, etc. With subjects shot under normal circumstances and printed and viewed at normal viewing distances, with an image shot at ISO 400 or below, no one can tell the difference between one camera and another.

12 x 18 is a fairly modest print size. I have printed significantly larger with the old 18 mp 7D sensor and prints are indistinguishable from those taken with a 5DIII or a 1DX II.

So, if that is your only criteria to determine if an upgrade is worthwhile to you, then I would recommend you simply keep the 5DII until it dies and then replace it with whatever is available at the time.

Exactly.

 

[Aglet]

...The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one...

I can answer that right now. No, you won't be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12 x 18 print. Just as you can't see the difference in the quality of a 12 x 18 print between a crop sensor and a 1DX II.

The differences are only noticeable if you are at the extremes: low light, extreme contrast, etc. With subjects shot under normal circumstances and printed and viewed at normal viewing distances, with an image shot at ISO 400 or below, no one can tell the difference between one camera and another.

12 x 18 is a fairly modest print size. I have printed significantly larger with the old 18 mp 7D sensor and prints are indistinguishable from those taken with a 5DIII or a 1DX II.

So, if that is your only criteria to determine if an upgrade is worthwhile to you, then I would recommend you simply keep the 5DII until it dies and then replace it with whatever is available at the time.

Exactly.

Even I'll say ditto to that.
But if you want to start mangling the raw files and printing 36" or more, the 5d2/3/6d/etc. was not satisfying for some of us.

 

[privatebydesign]

The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one.

I might be splitting hairs here but for the sake of accuracy here goes.

You, personally, will not "take better pictures" with a different camera, if, by "better", you mean more compelling.

Now will you be able to see the difference in 12X18 prints? That depends entirely on what you photograph, how good you are at maximizing the capabilities of your current gear, how you process your images, and how you print them. For most people most of the time the answer will be no, but don't think there isn't a huge IQ difference between the 5D MkII and 6D MkII, there is. All new Canon sensors contain much higher IQ than earlier generations, whether you will see the benefits of that depend entirely on if you see the breakdown in IQ of your current camera, if you do the 6D MkII will be a big upgrade, if you don't see that break down then the new camera won't do much for you.

As a roundup, if when processing you regularly raise the shadow slider, particularly if you also tend to raise exposure, you will see a difference even in small prints. If you ETTR and tend to lower exposure in post and/or leave the shadows slider where it is and lower blacks, then you will not see a difference in 8x12 prints between a 5D MkII andA 6D MkII.

 

[tron]

So now that this is over, when does the disappointing 7D Mark III come out?

Let the speculation and rumors begin!

OK....

It will have a dual card slot.... you heard it here first!

I wouldn't be so sure about that, Nikon actually removed a card slot on the D7200 replacement. Hopefully Canon really isn't watching what Nikon is doing as all the evidence suggests.

So has Nikon removed a card slot from D500 too? I do not think so...