Canon officially announces the EOS 90D and EOS M6 Mark II

[SteveC]

I'll be getting the 90D tomorrow about 2 pm. Timetable is first to AFMA with 100-400mm II and 400mm DO II. Then, compare resolution using charts with 5DSR and 5DIV. If time, check out any shutter shock. Maybe time to report back here. Saturday, local bird reserve with hopefully a few birds around as it is a lean time of year, and further reporting.

It's sort-of the closest thing to the M6-II in many respects--but then again not really. Looking forward with interest nonetheless.

 

[Scenes]

My 90D just arrived. Unboxing now

 

[Scenes]

First impressions. Exactly and you’d expect. It does indeed format SDXC cards as exfat so no more 4GB file splits.

At first I thought the audio circuit had much more noise but then realised its the headphone monitoring. You can have this set MUCH louder then the 80D.

The screen instead of having a lip on the right hand side to flip it out isn’t on the top now. Not seen this mentioned before. Muscle memory is going to have to get used to that.

4K looked great from limited testing. Leaving for a 3 day shoot this weekend so going to give it a work out.

 

[Scenes]

Side note if anyone can help...

At some point I changed the function of ‘flash’ button on the left front of the body as you hold it so it turned Auto Focus on and off when filming.

On the 90D that pops the flash up when I push it as the 80D originally did but it’s been so long I can’t find where in either menu of the 80D or 90D to change that setting.

If anyone can point out where that is that would be great.

 

[Sharlin]

On the 90D that pops the flash up when I push it as the 80D originally did but it’s been so long I can’t find where in either menu of the 80D or 90D to change that setting.

Huh. I wasn't aware of this feature until now. Having tested it on my 80D, I think the flash button always toggles servo AF when in movie mode. I don't think it's customizable. But the 90D can't support it because the flash button is now mechanical, with a single purpose only.

 

[Scenes]

Huh. I wasn't aware of this feature until now. Having tested it on my 80D, I think the flash button always toggles servo AF when in movie mode. I don't think it's customizable. But the 90D can't support it because the flash button is now mechanical, with a single purpose only.

I’m sure it’s something I set because I did it on the 70D also? Ah well. That makes sense if it’s mechanical. I don’t think I’ve ever fired the flash on the 70 or 80 lol. I’m sure i’ll Adjust to it.

One other difference. The mic port opens from the top now rather then the bottom.

 

[Sharlin]

I’m sure it’s something I set because I did it on the 70D also? Ah well. That makes sense if it’s mechanical. I don’t think I’ve ever fired the flash on the 70 or 80 lol. I’m sure i’ll Adjust to it.

The 80D manual has the following to say. I don't think the flash button behavior is customizable. The switch to a mechanical button is annoying because the flash button was also a shortcut to the flash menu, extremely convenient when using a speedlight and/or off-camera flashes.

Movie Servo AF

With this function enabled, the camera focuses on the subject continuously during movie shooting. The default setting is [Enable].

When [Enable] is set:

• The camera focuses on the subject continuously even when you are not pressing the shutter button halfway.
• If you want to keep the focus at a specific point, or if you do not want the lens mechanical sound to be recorded, you can temporarily stop Movie Servo AF as follows. When you stop Movie Servo AF, the AF point will turn gray. When you perform the same steps below, Movie Servo AF will resume.
  • Tap the [SERVO AF] icon on the lower left of the screen.
  • Press the <> button.
  • Under [C.Fn III-4: Custom controls], if a button is assigned with [AF stop], you can pause the Movie Servo AF while holding down that button. When you let go of the button, Movie Servo AF will resume.
• While Movie Servo AF is paused, if you return to movie shooting after operations such as pressing the <MENU> or <▶> button, or changing the AF method, Movie Servo AF will resume.

When [Disable] is set:

• Press the shutter button halfway or press the <AF-ON> button to focus.

 

[padam]

In this videos comments this YouTuber said at the media event Canon told him the 4K is downsampled from 6K. That’s as close to an official word we have on the matter. However it turns out Canon is getting to 4K I thought it looked pretty darn good.

In case of the 90D cropped 4k mode, yes it does downsample.
In case of the uncropped 4k mode however (which is the only one available for the M6 Mark II) no it isn't, so it is definitely softer, albeit with less rolling shutter.

It is worth noting though that the M6 Mark II can take a Speed Booster as well (even Metabones has one now alongside the softer Viltrox) that takes the crop down to just 1.14x which is effectively the biggest sensor area amongst Canon's stills cameras for 4k video, so it may be a big deal for some people.

 

[scyrene]

Would it be OK if Canon dropped Av, odd numberred shutter speeds, ISO 800 or f8 from the M6II.

It would be weird, but if I still wanted the camera, I'd work around it. None of those things, barring the first one maybe (which I don't think is an apt comparison for that reason) are fundamental to shooting. You'd use ISO 640 or 1000, say, and nobody would notice. For me what's been odd is how vociferous the complaints have been. It was a slightly odd choice by Canon, it's annoying to some, but big deal, move on.

 

[scyrene]

I'll be getting the 90D tomorrow about 2 pm. Timetable is first to AFMA with 100-400mm II and 400mm DO II. Then, compare resolution using charts with 5DSR and 5DIV. If time, check out any shutter shock. Maybe time to report back here. Saturday, local bird reserve with hopefully a few birds around as it is a lean time of year, and further reporting.

Exciting! I look forward to the results.

 

[Sharlin]

For me what's been odd is how vociferous the complaints have been. It was a slightly odd choice by Canon, it's annoying to some, but big deal, move on.

It's an easy target for the trolls, unfortunately. Stupid Canon again made a camera that's literally unusable. And the whole 24 vs 25 vs 30 fps thing seems to be something of a religious issue for video people, with strong opinions and little factual support for them. Like shooting your vlog at 24 fps would automatically make it look like a Hollywood movie. And then there are the people who might actually have a professional need for 24fps and are annoyed because they don't want to spend money on professional hardware.

 

[Scenes]

In case of the 90D cropped 4k mode, yes it does downsample.
In case of the uncropped 4k mode however (which is the only one available for the M6 Mark II) no it isn't, so it is definitely softer, albeit with less rolling shutter.

It is worth noting though that the M6 Mark II can take a Speed Booster as well (even Metabones has one now alongside the softer Viltrox) that takes the crop down to just 1.14x which is effectively the biggest sensor area amongst Canon's stills cameras for 4k video, so it may be a big deal for some people.

Is there some kind of official word on that regarding the uncropped mode from reviewers and such? Or is the internet still reacting to one angry mans blog who stated it as fact without actual evidence?

 

[padam]

Is there some kind of official word on that regarding the uncropped mode from reviewers and such? Or is the internet still reacting to one angry mans blog who stated it as fact without actual evidence?

Why not simply look at the footage? I've linked it earlier but other reviews show it as well...



You can clearly see that the uncropped 4k is a good deal softer, and it is the only mode available on the M6 Mark II

In terms of actual quality, the EOS R 4k would sit between them, the 90D crop mode is a little crisper, but no 24p, ALL-i codec or C-Log. The uncropped 4k mode rolling shutter is decent, only beaten by the 1DX II. The 90D 4k crop mode probably don't fare as well and close to the EOS R, which is not great.

Canon is not stupid, the video quality and capabilities are set firmly at every price level, and one has to pay extra to get more (unless they manage to hack it, which is very unlikely)

 

[Scenes]

Why not simply look at the footage? I've linked it earlier but other reviews show it as well...



You can clearly see that the uncropped 4k is a good deal softer, and it is the only mode available on the M6 Mark II

In terms of actual quality, the EOS R 4k would sit between them, the 90D crop mode is a little crisper, but no 24p, ALL-i codec or C-Log. The uncropped 4k mode rolling shutter is decent, only beaten by the 1DX II. The 90D 4k crop mode probably don't fare as well and close to the EOS R, which is not great.

Canon is not stupid, the video quality and capabilities are set firmly at every price level, and one has to pay extra to get more (unless they manage to hack it, which is very unlikely)

I saw the footage from your other post. I thought it looked great.

I’m not disagreeing with you - if that is in fact how canon get to 4K in each case Then fair enough. I still think it looks great and I’m happy whatever. I’m not arguing it’s better quality than a RED or anything.

What I’m getting at is.. are there any reviews or test charts or any conclusive reporting by the filmmaking community that actually confirms this is happening with canon’s ‘Upscale-gate’?

Or does it all still stem form a rant on an angry blog post and you watching 90D reviews and going.. “yeah, that’s probably true ?

 

[koenkooi]

In case of the 90D cropped 4k mode, yes it does downsample.
[..]

Is it's downsampling or doing a straight 1:1 readout? If it's a 1.63x-ish crop it should be a 1:1 readout.

 

[padam]

Is it's downsampling or doing a straight 1:1 readout? If it's a 1.63x-ish crop it should be a 1:1 readout.

It is the M50 that does the 1:1 readout in 4k mode.
You can see that the crop is a lot less on the 90D and it has more than 24 megapixels like on the M50 and it also looks much sharper as well, so it is downsampling, although they so far haven't told how many pixels it is using exactly.
Maybe it is a similar to a 16:9 crop of what they are using in the silent RAW burst mode, which I am sure it written down somewhere in the specs.

 

[pap-x]

Is it's downsampling or doing a straight 1:1 readout? If it's a 1.63x-ish crop it should be a 1:1 readout.

From some quick measurements from the videos posted above the cropped mode does a 1.18x crop to the picture. That means that it uses around 6000 pixels in width of the sensor and judging from the warnings of overheating, it obviously performs a 6k to 4k downsampling hence the increased sharpness.
In the uncropped mode the only way to efficiently use the full size of the sensor is by pixel binning (or line skipping but it's highly unlikely). If they did a 2x2 pixel binning the resulting video will have a 6960/2=3480 pixel width and it will need upsampling to get to 4k, a 3.5k to 4k upsampling to be specific which is not great but definitely not terrible.